> We funded the Lockitron guys back in the summer of '09—that's them at their YC interview. A year after YC, they were still figuring out their idea. They lived with the Wepay guys and one day the Wepays had a party for their investors. By that point the Lockitrons were working on a product to lock your door with an iPhone. They were able to impress one of the investors with their prototype, and he asked to have 40 installed in some startup offices he owned. The founders were psyched, but the commercial locks they needed to use cost $500 a pop. They didn't have $20,000 to fulfill an order that big. So they went around to the local locksmiths and scrapyards, buying broken locks for about $10 each. They fixed them themselves and were able to deliver on that order.
It really pays to check how ones company name sounds in different languages. Because in some cases connotations could be not even funny :( For example in russian, lockitron sounds very similar to 'lohotron' which translates as con game, scam etc.
If you want to say "You're a retard" in German you'd say "Du bist ein Mongo". Mongo being short for mongoloid and just as `politically incorrect` as retard is in the English speaking world. If anything the name made the product more memorable for me (and I use it almost every day now)
I'd wager that nearly any name is going to sound bad in some language. I don't know how important it really is to pay attention to this. If the Russian market ends up being important for them somehow, they can always make a new name for the Russian market.
Indeed. For example: I'm a big fan of Yammer which is a great name in English.
Introducing it to my Dutch colleagues is hilarious, though, because the name effectively means "that sucks" in Dutch ('Jammer' is pronounced the same).
If anybody at Matasano is reading this, I want you guys to know something. In South America, matasano (also one word) transliterates to "killer of the healthy" and means "doctor who does more harm than good." It's slang, of course, similar to "shrink" and connotes...exactly what it means.
Interestingly tptacek commented on this saying - 'Matasano' ==> 'Last doctor you would go to'. And they were sad for a few minutes and then were 'very happy' with the name.
The implication being that 'Matasano' is the last doc you go to who 'CURES' you I guess...
But this is only relevant if they plan to expand to Russia.
The Chevy "Nova" was a good name in English speaking countries, they should have checked what the name sounds like in Spanish. So basically the point here is translate your product before entering new language markets.
I owned a prior model and the remodel was exactly the reason I purchased one but, came about it the wrong way wrong.
During my remodel a subcontractor stole a checkbook from my house and wrote $2k of checks to himself. The key to my house was also "lost" somehow. I had to replace the lock on my house one way or another and decided to go with Lockitron as it allowed me to give out "keys" to my house and revoke them or open my house from anywhere.
BTW, I know live in London and rent my house out in the states. I have let the tenant into the house after they lost their keys one night from 3,000 miles away is quite cool.
Oh.... and laying in bed and thinking... Did I lock the door? No need to get up, just grab the phone and punch lock and go to bed.
This is exactly why I just reserved one. Our son gets home before us, and it's nice to know when he gets home. Currently I get a Growl notification when he turns on the PC, but if he doesn't turn it on I won't know when he gets in (and he's not in the habit of calling us, which I guess is the ultimate solution, but this is a good alternative). We have maid service too.
I'm less concerned with opening it remotely versus just knowing when it's unlocked/locked.
As someone who lives with three adult roommates who all have S.O.'s we have people in and out all the time.
As someone who lived by himself in college it was nice to know when the landlord came by.
As someone who runs a startup, it provides more benefit than a typical modern access control system without the $3000 price tag.
For American locks, the deadbolt provides most of the security. The handle can usually be loided and is kind of only useful if you're stepping out for a minute to grab the mail and want to shut the door behind you.
For letting someone in remotely, you usually have an idea that they're coming over first. If they were to show up unsolicited, you would likely call first.
Is it possible to use just the alert features and disable the open/close mechanism? My first impression -- being able to open a deadbolt with a text message seems like a bad idea (sooner or later it has to become hackable) but knowing, remotely, when someone's knocked or used the deadbolt seems really useful.
Hi Paul, thanks for your reply, and congrats on the campaign! Forgive my scepticism around the product, instead take it as a sign of respect from someone in marketing ;-D
> As someone who lives with three adult roommates who all have S.O.'s we have people in and out all the time.
Do standard keys not work for this? Or do you often have bad breakups that would mean physical danger if someone didn't give their key back and the landlord couldn't replace the lock?
> As someone who lived by himself in college it was nice to know when the landlord came by.
Interesting .. it's illegal here in Australia for a landlord to enter a rented property without seven days notice and they can only do that (twice?) per year for an inspection. It's possible that it does happen to some people, but there's fairly clear laws about it.
> As someone who runs a startup, it provides more benefit than a typical modern access control system without the $3000 price tag.
Again .. keys aren't that expensive if you're not using serviced office space.
> For American locks, the deadbolt provides most of the security. The handle can usually be loided and is kind of only useful if you're stepping out for a minute to grab the mail and want to shut the door behind you.
Interesting .. is "loiding" really a common problem that causes most break-ins? Around here, nobody bothers with locked doors. They either find a window that's open (or can be forced) or they move to the next house. (Or they're meth heads who'll just break shit and nobody's lock would stop them). Basically, nobody breaks into anywhere via the front door.
> For letting someone in remotely, you usually have an idea that they're coming over first. If they were to show up unsolicited, you would likely call first.
I'd never let anyone into my house that I wasn't expecting and had therefore not provided a key for. If a friend arrived at my home unexpectedly I'd .. actually, that's never happened.
Thanks for your response and entertaining my scepticism!
Physical keys can be lost, copied, forgotten about, etc. The chance of that becoming a problem increases massively with the number of people that need access.
It's quite easy to avoid all those problems by digitizing access. Cost of keys is basically irrelevant (maybe two dollars) compared to the headache of losing them.
To be fair, most locks offer very minimal physical security - like you say, someone targeting you will just break a window. But some random junkie is just as likely to pick the house with the door unlocked. The trick to avoid being a randomly-targeted victim is to be harder to attack than your neighbors.
Also Paul if you read this, can I get my camera back again? :)
Changing the lock probably violates your lease. And if you wanted to catch them entering your apartment without notice, something like a camera that creates readily identified evidence would be a better idea.
I wasn't sure if it can be configured to prohibit key access. How strong is it? If it can, it's unauthorized. If it can't, it's not keeping your landlord out.
He said he wanted to know when the landlord came, not keep him out. As far as I know, it won't even attempt to stop the key from opening the lock, but it will detect it.
To answer your questions:
1) Why? Faster than keys. And I might forget my keys, but I won't forget my phone. Also, if a neighbor wants to borrow something, I can let them in remotely and lock the door behind me.
2) No, but I often am not sure if I locked the door or not. Or see the above example with a neighbor.
3) I don't see how that's relevant. If I'm home, I'll walk over and open the door. Or if they yell "It's John!" then I'll open it for them.
4) Nope, not in my apartment. And at my family home we never used the knob lock, only the deadbolt.
1. Faster than keys? Wow .. you need faster keys .. it's WAY faster for me to pull my key out of my pocket than my phone. And I don't have to unlock my phone, find the app, launch it and anything else the app needs me to do (PIN?)
1b. That's the most expensive let-in-a-neighbour idea ever. My neighbours have a spare key to my place. If you're going to trust them once, why not just trust them?
2. Again .. a really expensive solution to this simple problem. How often do you actually leave your door unlocked? Or are you just scared and this device will give you needless peace of mind?
3. The point is that this device lets you unlock from anywhere in the world. Why would you unlock it from anywhere other than your house?
4. What if the neighbour in 1b decides to use the knob lock (after all, it's his habit to lock) and you left your keys at home because you have your phone?
The intuitive cynic in me sees a combination of 1b and 2 explaining this:
1b: Many people barely know the name of, let alone trust their neighbours these days. They are turning to the neighbour out of necessity, rather than old-fashioned good will.
2: Perception of hi-tech security, or rather perception of making an effort at security. Just like the gahzillion dollars spent of on body scanners that don't do very much for air plane safety, certainly not in proportion to their cost.
It's hardly the first first-world product that satisfies a want rather than a need.
The biggest use case for me is the proximity lock/unlock feature so that when I approach the door, it detects (via bluetooth) my phone and unlocks for me without me needing to go in my pocket for my keys... I just approach the door and walk in as if it were unlocked... just like my car.
I haven't ordered one, but I could see it being useful to give access to certain people at certain times. Like if you're using AirBnB you can give someone temp access, or if you want to give new employees access to the office without having to make more keys/cards.
edit: You could also use it to detect when the deadbolt is used, presumably when someone you know enters/leaves, since a burglar would probably not use the deadbolt ;)
If you are out (at work or on holiday), but you need a maid or repair person to have access to your house, I'm guessing with this you can:
a) grant them access without the hassle of getting another key cut and less of the awkwardness of trusting them with a key (if they're worried you'll point the finger at them if you're burgled);
b) have a record of the times they made entry (and they'll know you have it, so it'll reduce your fear of them burgling you some other time using the key you gave them);
c) revoke access without the hassle of changing the locks (and giving a new key to all the other people you've granted access to) or the fear that they may have made a copy of the key you gave them.
I don't think you need to be paranoid to realize that there are circumstances when this sort of control could be very useful.
It is a step towards what the world will be like at some future point, when everything about your home (and life) is managed from your phone (or some kind of device).
I'm not trying to sound futuristic and sci-fi, but I'm sure we will reach a point where there are no keys, just doors that unlock automatically and open for you based on proximity and identity verification.
Does a Lockitron make total sense for everyone to buy today? Probably not. There are obviously some use cases that do justify the expense, however, I see it as an intermediary step on the path to totally rethinking doors and physical access in general. And if you can afford it, and think it is neat and at least somewhat useful, then why not?
The door refused to open. It said, "Five cents, please."
He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. "I'll pay you tomorrow," he told the door. Again it remained locked tight. "What I pay you," he informed it, "is in the nature of a gratuity; I don't have to pay you."
"I think otherwise," the door said. "Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt."
...he found the contract. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip.
"You discover I'm right," the door said. It sounded smug.
> I see it as an intermediary step on the path to totally rethinking doors and physical access in general.
I don't believe doors and physical access in general need to be rethought, except maybe to improve the security of physical locks themselves. The 'big dumb thing between you and my stuff you'd need a sledgehammer to get past without a key' model has mostly worked for a good long while. (Or, fine, a crooked bit of wire if you're clever.) Why does that need to be disrupted?
I dont think it needs to be disrupted, and even if it did, I dont think Lockitron is that product.
We are moving towards a world where everything is connected, online, and accessible. Doors and keys are not in need of an overhaul, but some day, due to advances in peripheral technologies, having a door unlock automatically is going to just seem obvious. At first it will be something only the newest buildings have, and eventually, old metal keys/locks will be something only the oldest buildings have. Do you believe that doors/locks/keys are going to be unchanged in the next 50 years?
I suppose you're right to a degree when it comes to supermarket doors and some car locks, the idea that things should be so connected is certainly already present, and there's no reason to expect it not to saturate wherever it can. But there would remain real value to the low tech approach for a number of reasons. Physical locks are less expensive than networked locks would be. Networked locks would be subject to the vulnerabilities that come with being connected to the internet and being run by software, whereas physical locks wouldn't. I think Bruce Schneier said 'complexity is the enemy of security' (if not I'm sure I'll be corrected) and the analog stupidity of physical locks is what makes them useful. Although granted, physical locks can be hacked too, and are, I'd submit that the networked variety would likely be no less vulnerable to physical attack, and still more vulnerable to attacks over the network (so, implicitly, less secure.)
A ubiquitous system for locks that somehow can identify you by proximity, can also be used to track your movements and whereabouts. Networked locks could be theoretically controlled from a remote location, leaving someone else to act as, essentially, the systems administrator for your physical access privileges. This is what they do in prisons. Applying the concept of separating someone from direct control over their physical access-space to a large scale, and it looks a bit ominous - at least if this assumes these network locks are also commonplace on cars, houses, hotel rooms, hospital rooms, etc. This is not even considering what happens when power goes out, or the network goes down. Physical locks still work without electrical power, and the tumblers only care about the piece of metal that's currently jammed into the slot and whether it moves the pins properly... principle of least privilege.
I can see this sort of thing becoming somewhat more commonplace but I also see its spread as self-limiting. E-books aren't going to replace physical books, the internet isn't going to replace television, which hasn't replaced radio, which hasn't replaced theatre. In each case, the newer version of the technology does provide their own advantages and enhancements of the medium but not to the degree that the older, less complex version no longer has relevance. The future is never going to be that evenly distributed, this I believe. In a hundred years, some people might be genetically engineered posthuman cyborgs linked to a quantum hivemind, but someone, somewhere, will be living in village of mud and stone. People will still use physical locks because there's no real reason for most people not to. They could theoretically still work in a hundred years. Software doesn't age nearly as well as a steel bar through a door jamb.
One of the biggest dangers with software is that vulnerabilities, once discovered, can be exploited remotely or by persons without the necessary knowledge and talent to actually build the exploit themselves.
Nearly all locks can be picked. However, unless you are the target of a major criminal organization or government agency, it is reasonable to expect that your lock will not have to withstand someone who has invested thousands of hours into learning how to pick the most sophisticated locks. With a network-connected device, it only takes one clever fellow to discover the vulnerability and all of a sudden script kiddies everywhere can be deploying it against your lock.
Personally, I'm looking foward to a future where the display of my phone does not get scratched by the keys in my pocket. It will happen, and it will be a good thing. Admittedly, getting rid of my phone would solve the problem equally well.
Sometimes people come into the office on the weekend. Sometimes they don't realize that they lost their office key until they get to the office (they're never the first one in during the week, for instance). It would be nice if they could text me and I could remotely open the office for them.
@Lockitron, I recall the original story going: "We decided to host our own "Kickstarter" because investors did not seem interested and Kickstarter changed their policies."
I am curious, have you found that investors have changed their tune due to your successes so far?
I think you're conflating two stories. Eric from Pebble originally went on Kickstarter because of investor interest. We created our own crowd funding platform because Kickstarter changed their policies. Both stories are detailed here: http://www.foundersatwork.com/1/post/2012/10/what-goes-wrong...
In both cases, investor interest is a barrier but the core problem seems to be 1) making something people want, 2) finding a platform to tell them it exists, and 3) being able to deliver it. Kickstarter is wonderful for 2).
Playing devil's advocate here, but what is the hype surrounding this lock?
I bought two 'aesthetic enough' keypad code locks from Home Depot and it' been serving me well since. It doesn't require my phone or launching an app from my phone (think bags of groceries in both hands and you forgot to preunlock), doesn't require Wi-Fi, and I can program temporary codes for Airbnb, etc. within seconds. The only draw back is lacking the option to increase 30 second autolock interval.
Add a keypad, make it as rugged as existing locks, place it in the Home Depot lock aisle beside the other 'uncool' locks and you have a disruptive winner.
Consider everyone who lives in an apartment who doesn't have the option of replacing their lock (and I wouldn't really want to anyway... I rather prefer the unchanged external appearance of this product).
IIRC, you can also easily deauthorize users, so it's also the cheapest way I can think of to retrofit something into being a shared space where you want to be able to control access going forward.
It's not the perfect lock solution for every use case, but it's a really cool utility for a lot of purposes.
No, it doesn't. Presumably the parent is describing a situation in which a temporary guest wouldn't receive a physical key at any time, but would have temporary access through the app.
> Consider everyone who lives in an apartment who doesn't have the option of replacing their lock
I've lived in apartments. Giving other people access to your apartment is - in general - a horrible idea. I let guests into my apartment. Personally. It's a pretty straightforward workflow, believe it or not.
It's great because you don't NEED a keypad. Also, for people who rent and can't replace their locks, this gets them all the functionality a keypad lock can give.
Anyway, I have a regular dumb keypad deadbolt on my front door, and that works just fine. I don't have any needs that Lockitron would fill that the current lock doesn't.
I practice (though uncomfortably) I am able to extend at least two fingers, enough to enter a 4 digit code and turn the knob. Unlocking vie the phone with two grocery bags is not so easy.
It's powered by 4x AA batteries, claimed to be good for a year. If that's true it's unbelievably efficient considering the hardware store models also run on 4x AA batteries but don't have a Wi-Fi + Bluetooth radio running all the time.
As somebody whose enjoyed a keyless lock in a condo in Hawaii fairly recently I have few things to say.
* Keyless locks are great
* Depending on a phone is a very limiting requirement.
From my experience, it was a huge relief not to have to carry any valuables(such as a smartphone or keys) to the beach, because the door had a 4-digit-code lock device.
If i had to carry a phone around with me, i would rather carry a set of keys.
Furthermore, if youre planning to use it for AirBnB and youre expecting that your tenants will have cell service, youre excluding international travellers who have just arrived in your town and may not have cell coverage with their international phones.
What I would like is a code-based lock that would allow me to reset the code remotely, to add multiple levels of codes, time-limited codes, etc. I would pay lockitron prices for it.
Lockitron is highly hackable, based on the video. A guy made bananas create tones based on pushing on them, and that set of tones opened the lock. You'd buy lockitron at that point as a way to interface with your lock in a more reliable way than whatever you could throw together.
Secondly, what do you need cell service for when communicating with a device via bluetooth? Or NFC? Or WiFi? No one's being excluded here except the unimaginative.
I wonder how strong the actuator is on the device. I know that most deadbolts don't line up all that great with the hole in the frame and require a lot of force to actually open and close. I'm sure the actuator is limited in how much force it can generate.
How the device fits over the lock handle reminds me of another device I made to unlock a door. I had to get into a room to reset a router, however the lock was a deadbolt, and I didn't know how to pick it. Using a (heavily bent) coat hanger, I squeezed it through a crack in the top of the door, lowered it with twine until it grasped the lock handle, and then turned the device with some more twine (from under the door) and I was in.
Locks that open when the door handle (not a knob) is turned can also be opened relatively easily with coathangers from under the door. Make sure to consider all aspects when making secure systems!
If you see the comments here, there are still a LOT of doubters. Which surprises me a lot, this product is genius. With so much skepticism, if Lockitron was a stock, I would buy it.
I've been minimizing the stuff I carry in my pocket for a while now (for every day work).
The wallet was the first to go. Then I stopped carrying IDs (I use public transport). Now I'm down to my keys, my phone, a credit card, and a metro pass. The day when all I need is my phone is getting closer!
Interesting, but this seems similar to the Z-Wave[1]/Schlage Internet-controlled remote entry systems. I'm not sure what the additional value add is beyond an iPhone app.
Haha, completely agree with this sentiment. By far the most attractive thing about this for me is being able to check my phone and immediately assuage that "Oh shoot! Did I lock the front door?" feeling.
It's something I've been thinking about a solution to for a while. One of these days I'll get around to making a key cover with a simple mechanical display of which direction the key was last rotated. Cool idea, right?
This is all really great, but my ISP and router situation is not at 100% uptime and about once a week I need to reset them both. I wouldn't be able to rely on this completely :/
"If you use an iPhone 4S or iPhone 5, you can enable Lockitron to sense when you walk up to the door and unlock for you using Bluetooth 4.0. We call it Sense."
From their FAQ: If you have an iPhone 4S or iPhone 5, Lockitron will work even if the internet or power go out. And of course, you can always use your original key
I guesss it also uses Bluetooth for manual unlock and not only for Sense.
I always wonder about drive-by trolling. Suggestion to pg, make it so that accounts cannot post their first comment for 24hrs.
That said, this sort of complaint is not uncommon, I saw a lot of "Gee why not use a hidey hole? or a camo-rock?" and the answer is, of course, that for the use case these folks are targeting divulging the secret hiding space to a temporary renter means you need a new hiding space for the next one. So much easier to just delete their access code.
I didn't realize quite how much this industry needed to be disrupted until I went out and added fob based locks to our offices here at Blekko. What I want is a self contained solution, I know I can hack one together with a few arduinos and RFID readers and a closet web server type app on a Raspberry pi, but nobody sells that. And some of the components are poorly documented (as it the general rule for "security" stuff it seems) for this reason alone I cheer on the Lockitron guys and look forward to their Enterprise product.
> " Suggestion to pg, make it so that accounts cannot post their first comment for 24hrs."
Two problems with this approach:
1) if someone's post happens to make it big on HN and they discover us through their logs, they can't give feedback while their posts is still on the frontpage.
2) HN has a long tradition of throwaway accounts [0] being used to give valuable input in sensitive discussions (abuse, corruption, medical, financial, family/social, or legally dangerous.) A waiting period means those contributions won't be made, or at the very least, won't be seen by the majority of readers.
The price of getting rid of drive-by trolling is that we lose these contributions. Seems better to just downvote or flag the trolls, and keep the really excellent stuff.
In this particular case, keeping track of the similarity between posts might have helped. There's no legitimate reason to post the exact same content several times that I'm aware of.
As long as they're obviously dumbasses I don't mind their just getting down-voted to the bottom. Not much harm done and they'll get `dead`ed before too long.
> We funded the Lockitron guys back in the summer of '09—that's them at their YC interview. A year after YC, they were still figuring out their idea. They lived with the Wepay guys and one day the Wepays had a party for their investors. By that point the Lockitrons were working on a product to lock your door with an iPhone. They were able to impress one of the investors with their prototype, and he asked to have 40 installed in some startup offices he owned. The founders were psyched, but the commercial locks they needed to use cost $500 a pop. They didn't have $20,000 to fulfill an order that big. So they went around to the local locksmiths and scrapyards, buying broken locks for about $10 each. They fixed them themselves and were able to deliver on that order.