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> I knew this was impossible, because…

There’s an easier tell. It’s impossible because you can’t to get Google to help you at all about any account issues, never mind them being as proactive as to call you.

In other words if Google call you, it’s not Google.

It’s slightly depressing that there are probably more fake Google support staff than real ones.




I feel Google, Facebook, etc. all need to setup actual phone numbers and chat rooms, and make them rank highly on searches for "Google support phone number", "Google fraud department", "Google account recovery department", "Google Live Support Chat" etc.

Then those numbers should simply play a message that this is the only official phone number, and no human will ever call from or answer this number, and the company does not offer customer support or appeals to account problems.

They also need to make searching for fraud phone numbers return anti-fraud messaging rather than what it currently does. Seems like the entire 844-906 exchange is fraudulent [1].

I had a family member that just got scammed because they panicked after their Facebook account got banned, basically exactly like [2].

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=844-906

[2] https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/01/31/51...


“If you receive a calling from Google, ask them for your issue ID, hung up and call 1-1-GOO”

1-1-GOO: “Google never contacts customers directly and has no way to let customers contact them. Hace a nice day”


Or, hear me out: provide actual customer support.


To 4+ billion customers. Not possible at any realistic company size.

If you or any person figured out how to do such a thing you’d be the next trillion $ company.


If your scaling requires you to ignore some laws and regulations, maybe your scaling is just a wet dream that should not become reality, and still attempting it should be punished. It's just the cost of doing business.


No laws or regulations were broken. If your desire to punish things which anger you means you ignore laws, maybe the problem isn’t the company.


Considering their profit is on the order of 100 billion, providing proper customer support does actually seem entirely realistic.


Meta net profit 2023 was $40B. Revenue is not profit.

AT&T has 100M customers, 40k customer service reps, avg wage $20/hr full time, i.e., $40k/year each.

If you simply scale this 5B customers would need 2M customer service reps. That’s $80B in wages. With no legal need, and since people use their services more by choice more than just about any other company’s product on the planet, it would seem they’re doing just fine.


Are they really customers if they don’t pay?


If they're not customers then there's really no need for customer support, right? So why would they complain? :)


The corps want you to believe that but it's not true.

India requires direct customer support by law.


It’s math. They don’t need me to believe anything.

They provide support in India to meet local laws.


Nonsense. It's (moderately) expensive, it's a cost. It's far from impossible, the proof of that being that huge companies did and do provide customer support.

Big tech loves "stripping unnecessary fluff" and "being efficient". Turns out the "unnecessary" stuff is there for a reason. The automatic management + zero customer support is dystopian to say the least.


Do the math (which I did for another in this post).

Saying nonsense to basic arithmetic is ignorant.

Don’t like the service, don’t use it. Same as every company.


How many billions do they make an hour? How many human hours of Indian and Philippine wages can they pay?


Users in low wage countries with minimal profit per customer doesn’t preclude US / Canadian tech support where they get 20+x the revenue per user.

They are making 10+$/month per user for a few hundred million, and have a large profit margin that easily pays for basic tech support.


That's a consequence of growth they should have thought of and a basic part of running any business.

At least in the US Attorneys General are being forced to do this work for them. It's essentially the only way to get a hacked Facebook/Instagram account recovered.

https://www.engadget.com/41-state-attorneys-general-tell-met...


No, attny generals chase things that raise their political stature. They’re political. Every single one of the 50 are dem or republican: 0 independent.

They’ll make noise about this because it riles a loud minority. If they really wanted it fixed then pass laws. They don’t, because they also like business.


"We’re the search company. We don’t care ; we don’t have to".


Where do you think Google would rank its own support, help, etc., contact pages and info if not at the top of searches like the ones you mentioned?


The problem is the subjunctive here.

It's not where the _would_ rank ... it's where they currently _do_ rank.

In my test, the AI Overview produced accurate information ("Google does not offer phone support for account recovery") but none of the other hits on the first page say anything like "Phone support calls are always fraud. Google will not call you."


I think the point they are making is that google will let the fraudsters pay to place higher than the warnings because it's profitable to do so.


If there is only one time they would honor their fair market obligations and not raise their own rankings, it would be on a cost center like free tech support to consumers.


In case you would like a concrete example to ground the cynicism about corporate trade offs around customer support, I recommend watching Jill Bearup's 10 minute video [0] about this week's demonetization. For example, she has to deal with some form that she "can't submit", a customer service contact 12 time zones away (so email replies are 12 hours delayed), and an account manager who is non-responsive. In her court, are some unaffiliated google employees giving guidance, but only because they were already part of her youtube watching audience.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RZHajVV9PA


> For example, she has to deal with some form that she "can't submit", a customer service contact 12 time zones away (so email replies are 12 hours delayed),

At that point I'd set up an LLM agent to reply for me. Big Tech are no longer the only ones who can pretend to be a human.


I smell a product idea...


If it weren't for the routine ex-Googler postmortem blog post shared on HN I'd think Google doesn't even have human employees.

The greatest mystery of my life is what is a "Google Product Expert" on their community forums whom I assume:

1. isn't an employee speaking as the company.

2. is someone given the title by the company.

3. spends a lot of time answering questions despite not being paid for it.

4. can contact Google employees somehow.

The only perks for this that Google lists is that you can join a secret club of Google Product Experts. It feels like gig economy applied to customer support.


several huge companies do this. here's one

https://discussions.apple.com

so frustrating


Apple isn’t a good example to use here because you can contact a human at Apple very easily:

https://support.apple.com/contact

They will even remote into your device and walk you through how to do something.


But if you have a problem and you need to show that you own appleid xxxx@xxx.com, can’t you go to an Apple Store and they will help you? I believe the frustration with Google is that there is not an actual human the regular person can talk to.


I don't live within 200 miles of a apple store


I had Google call me once :) It was when I was riding in a Waymo and one of the screens in the vehicle was lagging a little bit. They made the surprising choice of calling my phone, rather than ringing the car itself, and I didn't pick up because... who picks up when your phone says, "Call from Google" :) They called the car shortly afterward to reassure me that the lagging screen wasn't an indicator that the car would underperform.


Being guaranteed to be able to talk to a human would be great, but I just don't see how it can possibly scale to over 1 billion users that aren't paying like gmail has.

Years ago, my brother used to work for XBox Live Tech Support, and he said that easily over half the calls he got were for things that customers could easily self-service, like a password reset. Many tech issues were fixed by the most basic troubleshooting step: Power cycling.

Meanwhile, my uncle works XFinity tech support, and he'll frequently get calls when a website has an outage, not to mention how many non-technical people think any internet-related issue, such as a forgotten Google password, means calling your ISP.

This doesn't even begin to talk about bad actors calling tech support to try to break into someone else's account. Google accounts are high-value targets. Once you've gotten in, there's a really good chance you could easily pivot to all of that person's other accounts.

To handle the call volume that a service like Google would have, if they offered phone tech support, the amount of staff they would need would be in the hundreds of thousands, and so many of the calls they take would be wastes of time. There are a lot of non-technical people that have no idea how things work and basically think that Google IS the Internet.


> but I just don't see how it can possibly scale to over 1 billion users that aren't paying like gmail has.

Why not charge for support?

You bet your ass I would pay a support fee if my Gmail account was having issues.


Yup

$19.95 per incident to talk to someone who could ACTUALLY resolve an issue would be totally worth it, especially for people who suddenly find themselves locked out for no known reason. A fee would also filter out most the silly calls, and if not, and they can resolve a password reset in 2 minutes, it is way worth it for both the caller and Google.


That exists - it’s called Google Workspace.


I don't understand. How do I use Google Workspace to pay $19.95 to solve a problem with my Gmail account?


> Why not charge for support?

They do. And when you actually pay for support, they answer the phone. At least in my experiences.

The only times they've left me high and dry is when I didn't have any actual paid support contract or subscription for whatever the question was about.

They have a Gmail support contract. You signing up?


I'm sorry - where can I buy support for Gmail? Do you mean Google Workspace?

I did used to have a Google workspace account, for several years, but administering it was a lot more work than just having a Gmail account. It's certainly not something that my mom could do.

I'm talking about something more oriented toward consumers, and ideally pay-per-use.


Google One has a contact us support benefit.

> As a Google One member, you can reach out to Google One support for help via chat, a phone call or email.

https://support.google.com/googleone/answer/9003266?hl=en_DE...


What can a human do that the automated processes for account recovery/etc. can't?

I talked to a human Apple support person once and we had quite a long chat but ultimately his conclusion was basically "I can't know anything you don't already know and there's no way to resolve the problem."


Did you escalate to more senior support? They have the ability to pull in engineers when something’s weirdly broken.


It wasn't really a bug. Long before I had any Apple devices, some stranger used my email address as their recovery address. I clicked "OK" for fun. Then I got an iPhone and realized my main email address was blacklisted because it "belonged" to somebody else.


Ah, I’ve heard of that blacklisting, and that it’s impossible to get reversed once it happens and that they refuse to discuss it. That stinks.


I had a weird security alert on my Google account the other night after trying to do a "Sign in with Google" to a service I've used for years. Trying to view my account/security info kept redirecting me to a page instructing me on how to clear cookies.

I clicked support and was able to get a call right away. But I pay $20/year for Google One.


They will reach put to try and help sell you more ad spend. If that was a scam its very good cause they set up my adwords campaign for me.


I have a similar anecdote which isn't very relevant except it felt like googlers now care about how they can help make google more money. I would have never expected engineers at Google to care about how to make more money for google like doesn't the money just flow in...


Somehow Google and other tech companies are not required to have a customer service that actually solves the legitimate problems customers have with their services. I wonder how they are allowed to do this not just in the US but across the world.


I pay for Google Workspace for my personal Gmail account. It’s billed per user (with no minimums) so it’s actually very cheap even for the “enterprise” version.

The support is excellent. I can get a human on a live chat and request a screenshare and phone call session with a few clicks in under 10 minutes.

But of course that’s only available to me because I pay for the business version of Google albeit for personal use.


Software is not considered a “product”, so it doesn’t come with the government protections against companies that sell defective or dangerous products.

Also, you don’t pay for Google. It’s a free search engine and a free email service. You get tech support if you pay for the enterprise workspace features.


So, if it's not a product it shouldn't be sold or leased, and people shouldn't be hired to build it.


To be clear, I was talking about the legal regime.

Your snark should be directed towards legislators, not commenters on HN.


I got one of the same calls (didn't believe them). Afterwards I phoned Google support and they said the same thing, they will never call you. I had them confirm nothing was wrong with my account, just in case.

So it's very possible to phone Google support, just don't believe anyone who calls you.


> There’s an easier tell. It’s impossible because you can’t to get Google to help you at all about any account issues, ...

Paying Google apps / GSuite users can call a number and it's real humans answering (and they're very helpful).

But indeed I don't think they proactively call you.


Unless their salespeople are calling you


> It’s slightly depressing that there are probably more fake Google support staff than real ones.

I've never thought of it that way but you're right! Dealing with support at most tech companies is a horrible experience and is usually something I research before using a product where a failure in service provision could lead to catastrophic results.


I had a legit call come from Google Maps and I called them a scammer and various other names.


Right? "Google support" calling is an obvious tell.




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