Loneliness. We don't have meaningful social connections anymore like our parents or their parents geeration had. We are so scattered, that I am unsure how many of my friends are actually friends and how many are just professional contacts. Everytime I switch job, almost 70% of my friends suddenly fall out of contact. Heck, I don't even know the people who live in next apartments both left, right, up and down on the same building. Socializing with my friends mean, setting up an appointment weeks ahead to see if we can align on a free-slot and this often involves all of us commuting to somewhere and disbanding by 22:00 hours because family, work next morning, chores to do, doctor appointment and other human things.
Interestingly, in this rat race, a lot of people suddenly inherited significant wealth and managed to use those wisely to have enough return to maintain a minimal lifestyle without working a primary 9-5. Some of us also achieved significant wealth by our early youth that we can afford to chase our hobbies for long time without worrying about the rents and bills and other responsibilities. Add social network to this, and these people cumulatively pursue things like world travelling, elaborate vacations, own businesses, YOLO etc.. , an endless stream of "other people doing YOLO" while us being worried what did I achieve so far?
So, yeah, we feel lonely, go to social sites(which is appearently the whole "internet" to non tech-savvy groups) to see how others are having it good. Then suddenly we realize we wasted a lot of time on watching others having fun and decide that, we need to get better hobbies and stop this. But the loneliness never goes away as hobbies are extra toppings when we have a complete social life, so we are again pulled back to the cesspool, because at least there we can get some connection in forms of comment, likes and we can post our opinions as well or get into hours of comment-wars(which counts as social connection too).
I had to read through your comment a couple of times. From the sound of it, you’re likely in a better position than many other people here, and what worries you isn’t the lack of social contact but the depth and quality of it.
This is a common issue that a lot or even most people face as they get older. I think that a lot of us have been able to fill this gap by finding significant others and starting families. I wonder if the trend towards settling down at later ages and holding off on having a child - or forgoing it altogether - is also part of the issue.
Social media doesn’t help, but the answer to that is to stop using it, or, at the very least, to keep yourself from using platforms that encourage comparisons.
i think i fair ammount of it is that it's difficult to do things spontaniously anymore. when i was little, my parents friends just used to show up and see what was going on, hang out, have a drink, whatever. and i think this kinda builds that friendship, as it's the random shit ppl do together that builds the bond (best example is the Friends tv show) or when you're a teen and there's nothing to do so you just hang out with your friends. (that 70's show)
it seems really difficult to do that anymore because you can stay friends with someon on socials but then they live 2hr drive away.
also it seems less accepted to just show up at someones house,
also lives are really busy, so everything has to be scheduled now, otherwise you'll be interrupting things.
Just showing up is something that has definitely gone out of fashion. I have family I barely see because meeting up requires advanced notice. Even then it feels like an inconvenience, hence, other than weddings and funerals, I don't bother.
I personally have an arrangement with some friends: they can call me or pop over any time… but they have to accept I might be busy, and vice versa. So far it has worked because we’re all too lazy to be doing anything other than hanging out.
A few theories:
We prioritize unimportant stuff over people. Examples: going to the gym, grocery shopping
Too much ceremony around the actual meeting. Your place gotta be tidy, you gotta be a good host etc. I have neighbors I really like who moved in ~6-8 months ago. We had them over twice and visited their place once. Each time each party made a huge effort. My wife made us clean our place for the better part of the day and every time we visited someone clearly had spent hours cooking and prepping stuff. Nobody wants to do this all the time. I even brought this up explicitly that we all gotta chill the f out about being super hosts. Everyone nodded and I am sure whoever hosts next time won't put much less work in.
Cultural change. I don't even know how to get to the place where I would just walk to my neighbor to "hang out". It feels like everything these days needs to have a reason and a plan. And this is in the rare case where you actually could walk over and don't have to drive 20 minutes to find out your friends took their kid to swim class.
My observation is that this used to be much easier because someone was usually home, typically a wife who did not work. Now everything is planned to the last minute because everyone is focused first on working, with family and friends getting the leftover time.
I wonder if another aspect of both partners working is that it pushes chores into the weekend and after work. When I was a kid my mom would go shopping during weekday mornings. I go shopping during a weekday evening or on the weekend. Same for other house chores. If someone showed up suddenly, chances are we aren't home or furniture is up because the Roomba is running.
I had an experience last year that hit me really hard and drove that point home: Due to an emergency I had to travel to the area I grew up in. I arrived at a hotel where I was expecting to wait for my family to arrive. A friend I went to highschool with and have zoom call with about twice a year texted me that he and his girlfriend are having dinner at a nearby restaurant. I just walked over in ten minutes and now was having dinner with my friends. No car, no planning, nothing! Unfathomable! It usually would take a week's heads up and a drive for me to do anything like this with any of my friends. It hit me so hard how much I miss this kind of thing. If I don't make plans in my everyday life it means my wife and I will likely be sitting around at home or maybe go out for dinner. Makes new think about moving, but all my friends are really spread out. Everytime there is a little bit of a group someone moves. It's also never walkable
That‘s me but evermore so I‘m stuck between a rock and a hard place.
As one sibling comment - I too have noticed this: I can remember friends of my parents showing by having a good time completely spontaneously. I liked it very much.
On the other hand I’m one of those people who get irrationally upset by random visits especially when it’s from family.
I guess that’s one reason why it’s so hard for me to be happy.
I really find it hard to pinpoint the exact reason. In the moment the "surprise" is what feels overwhelming. I know it's paradox because on the other hand, that's what the interaction my parents and their friends had were - little surprises.
It feels a bit like wanting a surprise gift for Christmas (contrary to something you wished to get) but then being upset because you did not get what you wished for...
I would love, to hear your theories maybe this willhelp explore that feeling a bit more
My theory is that we have so much entertainment and so many low-importance chores and tasks we put on ourselves that any unplanned event feels negative. One might have planned to go shopping, watch the latest episode of a show, read an article or watch a video that one stumbled over earlier in the day or similar. There is just no more idle or unplanned time. In the rare case that time is unplanned, it feels precious, although we did this to ourselves.
I recently started to only allow myself to watch tv on Friday evenings. I've also made a much stronger effort to limit social media consumption. I feel a lot less stressed and I think it's because there suddenly is no default way of filling time. Not only do I spend more time on things I actually value (musical instrument practice, reading books and working on my software projects), but I also think that I am much more often in a state where I'd be delighted, rather than stressed if friends or family suddenly stopped by. Unfortunately, I think this theory will never be put to the test. I am more excited though when friends message me.
Well…why can’t we? What is the mechanism driving this?
It seems to me that social media, increased ease of communication, etc, should enable spontaneity, because now you can at least confirm that someone is home as you drive over.
I think two things contribute to this situation:
1) Social media enables us to not lose track of people from past lives or who live far away. Before social media, you had to make friends IRL or you didn’t make friends. Now, most of my friends don’t even live in my city or even time zone.
2) We all work more. Everyone does. I don’t have any data to back that up, but my best estimation is that, while literal working hours have stayed roughly the same in light of increased productivity, we’re all so available all the time that we are kind of always working.
I’ve attempted to remedy both lately, and it’s tough. I’ve had to establish extremely firm (and I think totally sensible) boundaries with work and yet I constantly feel like I’m just barely reinforcing them. It’s mostly worked, though, and I’m not sure what to do with the extra time, seeing as everyone else I know is in the same “always working” mode.
I wonder if the connectedness makes it easier to avoid actual connection. Because of fast & easy texting, I can always check in before showing up or calling. It's much easier to stay in that medium than escalate to a higher throughput medium. I just texted with a friend for 30 minutes. We should have just called!
Once you are coordinating things, it's easy to overthink and make things too complicated or cumbersome. Also, "Oh I am meeting John, maybe if I do that I also should invite Peter. But I haven't talked to Peter in a while and it's awkward to ask to meet in 30 minutes. But we've always all met together... Maybe I just text Peter to see how he is doing and we all meet another time. Maybe it's best if I organize a little spring party in my backyard next month...". If I was on the phone with John and would have to call Peter instead of everyone just texting, I might not even have time to overthink everything.
few randoms thoughts on this.
yeah but if everyones friends don't live close by then everyone is always out visitng far away friends. we're forever stuck in the cycle.
also it's way easier to say no to someone online, (as people are lazy and don't feel like going out right now) vs a friend showing up and being like lets go do this fun thing #insert peer pressure here#.
also clear work life boundaries are super important. i treat work as if i were in the office, once i leave i ain't checking it until i start againt tomorrow.
also no slack or email on my personal devices, eww.
We have some rather close friends who live nearby and had a spontaneous dinner with them more than once. It's refreshing and fun when done in moderation.
> This is a common issue that a lot or even most people face as they get older. I think that a lot of us have been able to fill this gap by finding significant others and starting families. I wonder if the trend towards settling down at later ages and holding off on having a child - or forgoing it altogether - is also part of the issue.
I doubt this is all of it. It may have intensified recently, but the American obsession with the nuclear family predates the internet. Your wife and children should not be the entirety of your social circle. Likewise, your (man)children and other mothers should not be your mother's entire social circle if you are a child. Loneliness would be greatly reduced if more people were able to force their circumstances to be favorable to forming lifelong platonic friendships.
Family and significant others have become harder to find. Out of wedlock births went from 3% for your parents generation to 40% today.
40%. That is insane to me. I’m all for getting rid of the legal institution of marriage but I know that’s a niche idea and not what a bunch of people are doing.
Whatever the cause may be for people not being together, not having kids, or having kids out of wedlock (stable relationships - essentially)… we need to address it because it definitely is a key ingredient for happiness and health. (Especially so for men - the stats show this quite clearly)
I think its a good time to take the initiative and invite a neighbor around for dinner or even dessert one night. I'm not sure why Parents and Grandparents were better at this but the younger generation maybe isn't as good at realizing social interaction is important and you have to initiate at least 50% of the time.
I’m optimistic that remote work can help society reverse course on the constraints that have trapped people into loneliness. We got into the habit of commuting during our free time, working far from home. We sometimes move cities to get a promotion at the corporate HQ or to keep a career at a company that relocated. If we don’t move, our friends may to get ahead in their careers. These constraints imposed by office work separated us from our families, communities, and friends.
With acceptance of remote work growing, hopefully fewer people will feel they must move to have a career. If that happens, people will live more places. That will improve the odds that people who can’t work remotely can, at least, work closer to home. It’s possible clubs and activity groups will make a comeback. I’ve observed signs of this already, having recently met people that are joining clubs or arts groups to replace the pure social aspects of the office. I’ve also met early career people who are excited to be living near their high school friends and families. And I know others who are happy to be able to move away, but keep a good job.
It is not that work friends can not be long term friends. I met one of my closest friend when we were working for a startup. There is something about big companies which prevents people from making true friends. And I think it is the collective belief that "work friends are not true friends". People don't want to share their mind freely with each other and there is good reason for that. We fear that we might speak something which is inappropriate. We are trying to be politically correct all the time. I am pretty sure I have offended people during college but that didn't not matter in long term. One can't always be just neutral or positive.
Interestingly, in this rat race, a lot of people suddenly inherited significant wealth and managed to use those wisely to have enough return to maintain a minimal lifestyle without working a primary 9-5. Some of us also achieved significant wealth by our early youth that we can afford to chase our hobbies for long time without worrying about the rents and bills and other responsibilities. Add social network to this, and these people cumulatively pursue things like world travelling, elaborate vacations, own businesses, YOLO etc.. , an endless stream of "other people doing YOLO" while us being worried what did I achieve so far?
So, yeah, we feel lonely, go to social sites(which is appearently the whole "internet" to non tech-savvy groups) to see how others are having it good. Then suddenly we realize we wasted a lot of time on watching others having fun and decide that, we need to get better hobbies and stop this. But the loneliness never goes away as hobbies are extra toppings when we have a complete social life, so we are again pulled back to the cesspool, because at least there we can get some connection in forms of comment, likes and we can post our opinions as well or get into hours of comment-wars(which counts as social connection too).