I have a pair of powered studio monitors (Mackie MR5), and I completely relate to this problem. Many PCs and phones will emit an audible hissing noise while plugged in. I've tested on a dozen different devices, with integrated and external DACs, five hundred dollar sound cards, massively shielded cables, practically every modern OS you can name, tweaking every audio setting exposed to me. The only devices that work perfectly are (1) my TV output, and (2) every single Apple product.
I'm wholly convinced that the computing world is, in general, regressing. Audio has been a huge loser in this fight. Today, many modern phones don't ship with 3.5mm jacks. If you want lossless audio, you literally can't find it, even though there's zero reason companies like Spotify couldn't stream it when available (even if it costs extra) (Spotify literally asks artists to upload the masters when they publish, they have that data and then throw it away). Many artists don't even publish physical CDs anymore, so its a game of luck if they have a website where I can buy the FLACs/ALACs. And if you want the actual files to, you know, live your life in a completely legal way, those are gone.
Its more than just audio. Watching movies sucks; you now pay full price to effectively indefinitely rent movies, and have them taken away at any time. eBooks are the same and always have been; the world's oldest technology has been coopted by companies like Amazon to increase revenue, and there's practically zero competition. Applications suck; we're puking web and electron everywhere, eating up every conceivable megabyte of memory available literally only because developers are lazy, and now you're consistently asked to pay a monthly fee to access this functionality literally only because companies are lazy. Modern operating systems suck; restricting filesystem access, exposing proprietary application APIs which fundamentally make applications unportable and thus contributing to the rise of Electron/RN.
Somehow we took systems and workflows that were amazing throughout the 90s-00s and, in the course of a decade, completely ruined them.
Except you’re leaving out all the positives and only focusing on the negatives.
Sure, Google can revoke my access to a movie at any time but I can watch on any of my devices and I dont have to worry about finding it in stock at the local store.
I can carry literally thousands of books with me in a device smaller than a paperback.
I can’t stream lossless music from Spotify but I can stream high enough quality that most people can’t tell the difference. Not to mention you get access to pretty much every song you want for 10$ a month.
Electron apps and the web are replacing desktop apps but they are also making it easier than ever to make a cross platform app, meaning we will get apps that we otherwise wouldn’t. This is especially good for Linux, which would be much further behind macOS and windows without popular electron/web apps available like slack, Spotify, etc.
It does nobody any good to have 1000 books on a single device if the whole thing is subject to revocation, especially when you paid full retail price for the privilege of being allowed to read it. This is regression.
Previously you paid your $10 and received a paper book. You could read it, re-read it, lend it, sell it, or burn it for warmth. You owned it for as long as you kept it dehydrated. The $15 you now pay per book gets you one of these rights, temporarily.
Whether most people can tell the difference between 320k and lossless is irrelevant-- the retail price is the same for a technically inferior product. This is a regression. And again, for your money, you own nothing.
And for apps, the cross-platform compatibility comes at the expense of consumers, who have to continuously purchase and maintain newer computer equipment to do the same damn word processing, email and shopping tasks that used to be possible on a 486. And of course, since everything is a subscription, it's a double punishment for the consumer-- they have to maintain hardware to run software they don't own.
The entire premise of modern technology has become a new vector to extract the most money from the consumer while delivering the least amount of value, power or control.
To agree with you and wilsonnb3 at the same time- I highly value OWNING the things I buy and am also willing to pay extra for the privilege of convenience.
When I buy movies I generally buy the Blu-Ray with digital download. If it’s a kid’s movie I usually just buy the digital download. I almost never pull out the Blu-Rays, but I know I’ve got them. They usually come with the DVD as well, for even more compatability in a pinch.
When I buy books I generally buy the Kindle version first. I generally only take time to read on planes, trains, and travel/vacation. I’m good for maybe one a month. If I really like the book, I’ll buy a hardbound copy for my library.
Music is the part where I have internal consistency issues. I love music. I love all kinds of music. Motown, classic rock, hard rock, EDM/Electronic in general, classical, folk, rap. I have music on ALL the time. Probably 6-8 hours a day on average. I own no music. I pay for Apple Music because it’s convenient to share a subscription with my wife. I last bought physical album in probably 2008-ish. I buy an album or two on Apple Music a year. Where I really spend my music money is concerts. I’ll pay hundreds of dollars without thinking twice to see my favorite artists up close and in person.
So yeah, I agree that all the convenient ways of purchasing media are nothing but a long term lease and I would not consider anything I’ve bought through those channels as something I own. But if I flip it around and consider that I’m paying some third party to host a copy of the content in a convenient way, I feel okay about it.
>It does nobody any good to have 1000 books on a single device if the whole thing is subject to revocation
If what you really care about is reading and the knowledge you get from it, as opposed to the opportunity to take some totally unrelated stand, then yes, it really does do you some serious good to have thousands of books in your pocket!
> Whether most people can tell the difference between 320k and lossless is irrelevant-- the retail price is the same for a technically inferior product. This is a regression.
My camera can save images as either raw files or maximum-quality jpeg's. I know for a fact that I will never need to edit these photos later on. Which format is superior?
Useless data is of no value to anyone, and data we cannot perceive is useless.
If you're worried about license revocation, you should focus on obtaining DRM-Free digital media instead of killing trees. And make backups, of course. DRM-Free is standard for downloadable music nowadays. DRM-Free eBooks are less common, but they do exist, e.g. https://www.kobo.com/us/en/p/drm-free
It does nobody any good to have 1000 books on a single device if the whole thing is subject to revocation, especially when you paid full retail price for the privilege of being allowed to read it. This is regression.
What? You can still buy the paperback book, tons of my kindle books are $10 or less, and it very clearly benefits me, which is why I buy tons of Kindle books.
You don't own the book itself though, you own a license to the book. The doctrine of first sale does not apply, and they can revoke your license at any time.
They have revoked licenses in the past and deleted books from people's devices. I know you have a physical file that contains the book, but that file is secured with DRM.
I mean if I'm only going to read a book once I'm not going to spend $10 on it. The only books I buy are books I'd like to own so I can read them again in the future. If I'm paying $10 to read a book once that basically makes Amazon into a really shitty library that also sells knockoff goods and forces their employees to work in sweatshop like conditions.
I’m aware, but I don’t really care. I judge the risk to be really small, and the convenience to more than make up for it. And since I can still get the physical book if I choose, it’s hard to argue that this extra option with its pros and cons is a regression.
It worries me that you believe there's a natural conflation between the genuinely valuable services products like Kindle offer, and the specific business model of purchasing ephemeral licenses to media content. Kindle, Google Play, iTunes, whatever; they're amazing services that provide a lot of value. But that value could still be conveyed if the products they offered didn't have additional restrictions beyond those restrictions already present on physical media.
I'm not going full RMS here and saying DRM is evil. I'm just saying that: I should be able to loan digital content to other people. I shouldn't be afraid that Apple will, one day, just say "I know you really enjoyed spending $200 on all that media, but its all gone. See ya." Maybe that means they need to offer downloads of the content, or maybe it means we need legislation which says we can sue the hell out of them when they try it. I have no preference. But consumers need more protection.
Also its worth clarifying: I don't hold subscription services to the same standards. That's a different business model.
Not “most people” - pros on high end equipment cannot pass an ABX on 256kbps MP3. Spotify’s “extreme” quality setting is 320kbps.
This isn’t some “normies”/“audiophiles” thing. 256kbps mp3 is acoustically transparent to human beings in ideal listening situations.
The bad rap mp3 got was from 128kbps that was more common pre-broadband.
Also, using lossy compressed sources (even 256-320kbps) in derivative works (eg dj mixes, samples, et c) that will be later lossy recompressed (podcast, satellite radio, spotify, et c) is a good way to make your production sound crappy, which is why lossless is important. Any audiophile who tells you they need lossless for final listening simply hasn’t tested it. It is religion, not engineering.
256kbps MP3 is transparent in most cases, but there are some sounds that MP3 is bad at encoding (notably the sound of maracas and similar rattle type sounds), and you can train yourself to get better at identifying MP3 artifacts. People have reported successful ABX of maracas sound at 256kbps, e.g.:
Everyone gives this pitch, but I alwast spot the teltale digitl diatortion immediately. It affects the transients. We are training ourselves to hear worse.
I disagree. I can often tell the difference between CD audio and 320 or v0 mp3s. I can also notice compression on files with a lower bitrate than 320 or v0.
You can really notice the difference on the high end and the width of the soundstage.
>Not to mention you get access to pretty much every song you want for 10$ a month.
If you listen to mainstream shit where the artist does not have enough control of their work to opt out of the scam that is the pay scale for streaming music.
I have had to resort to ripping vinyl and CDs from my collection to get digital versions of tracks that Spotify, Apple Music, and Google Music do not have. If I had to do it all over again, I'd keep the vinyl and CDs in the box and just grab the music from somewhere like REDacted instead.
I ripped all my CDs at one point, realized it was a pain in the ass, deleted all of them, and then redownloaded them from Oink.cd/What.cd.
I stopped buying albums for a while, because I have a Google play music subscription, but a couple albums I really liked were deleted from the service recently. I had "added them to my library", understanding that I didn't own them, but I never expected them to get pulled from the service.
I'm getting pretty sick of Google Play shenanigans altogether. I'm probably going back to ripping my own music because the streaming services suck, and oink/what are shut down.
Not sure if it will last, but Google Play Music does allow you to upload your music to the service. It does not matter if those songs get removed from Google’s licensing or if they never existed on Google in the first place: they are streamed independently.
I already give everything but a bloody DNA sample to Google. I'm not giving them neatly tagged music files of music that I like that is not on their service that they can then combine with the music I listen to from their service so they can advertise to me over a music bed that they think is to my liking.
The "positives" you've listed were basically the case for the standard 00's setup. You just had to undertake some deliberate action to adopt it as your setup, rather than going along with that period's sharecropper option.
I had an iPod with a big hard drive that synced when I plugged it in (Linux). I either ran a streaming server off my home machine or mounted my filesystem via sshfs.
Re. flac downloads, Bandcamp (almost?) always offers a flac download option. You'd be surprised how many bands have a Bandcamp page, even if they're signed to labels.
The option is not well advertised. After you purchase a digital download, there's a tiny arrow next to the 'download' link that allows you to switch the download to flac.
I always download flac and consequently spend a lot of money at Bandcamp!
They also have an app that offers streaming and a bunch of social features so you can make a page for yourself where you show off the music you like and make playlists and interact with others. It's probably a great feature, but the thing that really sets Bandcamp apart is that you can just ignore the fuck out of it and pay money for some files that you can download using a browser and put on your own drives and devices.
Of course there's no need for a separate OGG download; no matter how transparent the MP3 encoding is, one thing at which MP3s suck and lossless codecs, by definition, excel is re-encodeability. If you've got FLAC, you're not far from OGG, AAC, and any other format you like.
Bandcamp is pretty much single-handedly keeping high quality audio alive. I exclusively buy music from them and then load it on to my own music streaming server.
Wow I can sympathize. Sounds like you're discerning a S/N ratio problem that would have disqualified the designs from 'high fidelity' in the late 70s and through the 80s. And you have to wonder if in your TV/Apple the hiss is there but is being noise gated. I too believe there has been regression. All it takes is one generation to 'interrupt' consumer expectations of ever increasing quality.
Not so long ago widely used audio codecs (the actual ADC/DAC part in the PC) had big problems with idle tones at low signal levels (which were simply gated off at silence, otherwise you would have gotten constant, looping artifacts). I managed to reproduce over 100 % THD+N with my old Thinkpad X200, i.e. more, very clearly audible, noise and artifacts than signal.
This is a separate issue though from the usually high output noise floor and poor isolation from other components, e.g. many complaints about many makes and models where CPU/GPU or even disk activity will induce audible pulse noises in the heaphone outputs or speakers.
The only way I found to minimize/eliminate HISS while using high quality monitors/pro speakers is to pair them with a proper external USB Audio Card.
Those External Audio Cards receive the signal in digital form, thus free of any noise they could pick up in the process. These are decoded inside the external DAC which then feeds audio to the speakers. since this part of the signal path is analog, any interference picked up by these cables is gonna appear on the speakers, which is why the good gear usually supports BALANCED SIGNALS so that the speaker can reference the signal and weed out noises added while in-transit.
My gear is a pair of YAMAHA HS8 speakers and a YAMAHA AG06 external audio card. Both support Balanced audio so that's what I'm using regarding cables between the audio card and the speakers.
Checked out the AG06 but it has internal DSP and other things I don't really need, plus it seemed like more of an audio interface than a sound card, do you have any recommendations for balanced audio usb external cards without all of the extra stuff?
A replier said something about a brand called "Schiit Audio", but I've researched them and they only offer stuff with RCA outputs which are sadly not balanced at all.
If you're on a budget you could get the AG03 which is the same interface, but with less input channels.
Also, the DSP is totally optional on those, If you don't use it you'll bypass it totally, not coloring or changing your signal in any way.
Btw you mentioned your speakers are Mackie, right? Before buying, research if your speakers actually support balanced input (they use XLR or P2/TRS "stereo" (2 black bands) for that, because each speaker is actually receiving 2 polarity-inverted copies of the signal). If all they have are RCA inputs (mono), you're out of luck.
Hope I could help!
EDIT: I have researched your monitors and they do have all three types of input: XLR and TRS (balanced) and RCA (unbalanced). yay \o/
Now go get yourself a nice audio interface with support for balanced output and go make yourself some nice XLR cables.
The Yamaha AG03 AG06 output balanced TRS signals, but for that extra "click" factor no the monitors I have built a custom cable that is TRS on the DAC and XLR to the monitors. That way it stays put :-)
I've researched this brand and could only find devices sporting RCA outputs (like Fulla or Bifrost). You need a proper XLR balanced output (3 wires) for balanced.
In that regard, the AG06 is much cheaper than any of the offerings i'm finding from Schiit.
None of this is the computing world regressing; it's just businesses regressing, or the law regressing, or convention in your social bubble regressing (regressing from what you like, mind, not what other people want.) The time with maximum availability of lossless audio and high-quality movies is right now. You can go join a private tracker and have the largest catalog of them in existence available to you for free, and you have the most bandwidth, most storage, and best tools in existence to organize and consume them. With books, you have to exert even less effort, because there is a huge global search engine where you can instantly download them without any registration barrier. If you don't choose to do that stuff, it's not software stopping you.
Test your system (and your room) with this audio quality quiz, comparing lossless audio with several compressed bit rate streams [1]. With my 50-year old ears, and an outboard DAC/amp and audiophile magnetic planar headphones, I could only score 50%.
That said, switching between Spotify and Tidal on the same track, I hear a pretty big difference. The lossless music has a depth that just isn't there on the compressed streams
I think some of it is whether you're used to listening to the type of music. All those samples are types of music I don't normally listen to and thus scored 0%. They're also mostly low-information songs that are vocal-heavy. Vocal-heavy music is very easy to compress compared to say something like electronic or EDM type music which will easily create distortion with lower bitrates.
I got 4 / 6 with some old Apple EarPods plugged into my laptop. I think it was probably just luck, because I picked the 128kbps MP3 for both of the ones that I got wrong.
It's fun to think that I might be able to distinguish between uncompressed audio and 320kbps MP3. I didn't think it was possible. I had a hearing test recently, and they did say that I have better than average hearing. But yeah it was probably just random.
Whoa I just put on a nicer pair of headphones (Plantronics BackBeat Pro), and I think I might be able to tell the difference between uncompressed audio and 320kbps MP3.
The third one was really tricky so I had to guess. But the first two were a really clear difference. Uncompressed kind of sounds "fuller" and sharper, and MP3 is a bit flatter. It's a tiny difference but I think I can hear it.
I got 2/6 right, the 4 wrong were 320kbps. Using the cheap-but-decent shp9500s and no dac, but quite good hearing. I'd chalk it up to having been listening to almost exclusively streamed 320kbps, it was interesting to note that the 4 I got wrong were because I discarded the more 'neutral' toned one which was actually lossless.
The 128kbps was of course very easy to pick out.
I'm of the opinion that 320 vs lossless is meaningless enough to not really bother, but I know for some tracks it was trivial for me to tell the different. Mostly it was the very complex/atmospheric tracks, Mind In A Box being a good example, where 320 lost a notable amount of quality. Probably others like Ne Obliviscaris as well.
The biggest problem with Spotify is that not all of their library is available at 320kbps.
I got 3/6 right using the iPhone XR built-in speakers (other three were 320k). I then tried it again with someone else clicking the buttons (in case they weren’t randomized order) using my DAC/amp and headphones and got 5/6.
The thing that gives it away for me is the extreme highs and lows, both are clipped when compressed usually. I should note, I wasn’t picking which “sounded better”, but rather which “sounded uncompressed”. Several of the tracks sounded better at 320k than they did uncompressed to me. Despite being rather close to 40, I am still able to easily hear sounds well over 20kHz.
What I will say about lossy MP3 audio is that in a blind ABX style test, I imagine I would not be able to point out which is which if the bitrate is high enough. However, if you play the lossy audio and lossless audio back to back in a good critical listening environment, there will often be small detectable differences between the two.
The difference is usually very, very subtle (my description for it is "soundstage differences", like slight differences in audio imaging) and if you are in the situation you are 99% of the time where you are not in a critical listening environment, you probably won't be able to even hear this. But if you are absolutely gung-ho about preserving the full spectrum of the recording, MP3 won't work. It's not an archival format by design.
Ha, loser! My cables were made in the same places that they make the best cuban cigars, naked beautiful people of the appropriate genders make the best cigars and the best cables. My ethernet cable is sex on wheels.
FLAC is best for archiving songs. MP3 is outdated tech and if I wanted lossy audio I would use opus but transcoding MP3 to opus will destroy the quality of the track so you have to go FLAC -> opus
> we're puking web and electron everywhere ... literally only because developers are lazy
No. This is done because developers are slow and expensive. Reusing most of your web app as a desktop app, same for every platform, saves a lot of money to companies.
> you're consistently asked to pay a monthly fee to access this functionality literally only because companies are lazy
No. This is because companies want recurring revenue, not one-time sale. It's vastly easier to get you into ("only $3.99/mo" vs "only $199.95 for lifetime of use"), and it keeps dripping every month.
There's not a bit of laziness here, only business shrewdness.
Businesses are inherently lazy. Business shrewdness and laziness are literally the same thing; businesses always take the easiest path to the greatest profit. "Lazy" just means "unwilling to expend energy".
Let's say Dow Chemical wants to start dumping chemical by-products into the Mississippi River. Thankfully, we have the EPA and strict laws which make this impossible. The only other force which would stop them from doing this is consumer outrage, which only works in some situations and even then tends to be very fleeting.
Now, let's say Slack wants to build their app in Electron. By doing so, they are collectively forcing their 8M users to burn more CPU cycles and purchase machines with larger memory footprints, all of which literally waste resources and cause pollution. Not to the same degree as the previous example, but the comparison is very valid.
> If you want lossless audio, you literally can't find it,
What audio could you get lossless before that you now can't that you're claiming there has been a regression?
> Watching movies sucks; you now pay full price to effectively indefinitely rent movies
You can buy most movies on physical disks. The old physical copy ownership option still exists. There has been no regression, just new options you personally don't like.
> Applications suck; we're puking web and electron everywhere
Clearly the market has decided that the heavier versions are just as fine. Also, in pretty much every case there's also lightweight non-electron alternative. There has been no regression, just new options you don't like.
> Modern operating systems suck; restricting filesystem access, exposing proprietary application APIs which fundamentally make applications unportable and thus contributing to the rise of Electron/RN.
That is absolutely your own fault if your OS restricts FS access. Applications are just as unportable as they have been. There has been no regression, just new options you don't like.
You're just looking at the past like it was some gold standard and a wonderland of software, development and user freedom (of choice or of software), it's ridiculous.
I'll literally click on the playlist I'm listening to right now and start listing albums that don't appear available physically on Amazon.
(1) Til The End - MitiS
(2) Dear Me, - Borgeous
(3) Ultraviolet - 3LAU
(4) Mau5ville Level 1 - Deadmau5
(5) Sleeping With Roses - Chelsea Cutler
I could go on, because I literally didn't skip a single song. I started at the top and went down. On this playlist of 300 songs, I would guess that fewer than 20 have physical albums widely available. In some cases, the artist will sell one on their website (ironically LPs are even more popular nowadays).
And why should they? CDs suck. But they do two things really well: they have clear ownership, and they're pretty close to a master recording. Digital does not have to remove these advantages; we can improve instead of regress. Products like Bandcamp do an excellent job of replicating this experience digitally, but few artists distribute on there, because consumers-at-large demand music on Spotify/iTunes/GPM/etc. Tidal also does a really good job of getting masters, but doesn't have the "you own it" advantage.
In other words, consumers have ruined music for both the artists and audiophiles by changing the rules of the game and forcing the markets to adapt in a way that isn't backward compatible with how things have worked. Artists make shit money on most streaming services, and people who actually care about the audio quality also get shafted.
Yeah, but what I was trying to say is that even before you couldn't get every song or album on CD, some were distributed only on tape, some only on vinyl, if you could even get a CD player or buy a CD (not too long ago USSR existed). I'm not saying your situation is ideal, but I am not saying it's a regress that some audiophiles can't get lossless but more people can consume audio (so easily).
Regarding your Mackies, which exact DACs and sound cards have you tested them with? According to the manual [1] they expect a +4dBu input, which will lead to unnecessary noise if you use them with "consumer" -10dBu gear. Most audio interfaces (i.e. designed for recording, not Schiit-type DACs) with balanced output will do +4dBu - I believe it's standard on all Focusrites.
> If you want lossless audio, you literally can't find it.
While I agree with your general thoughts, I have to disagree with this particular point. In my opinion there's never been a better time for lossless audio.
My collection is made of digital, lossless material only. I buy a lot of music - about 5-10 releases a week - and I have no problem at all finding everthing I want in a lossless format. I understand that this may differ depending on what you listen to and ironically obscure, niche music might be better served by lossles music stores, but I just wanted to provid a different perspective.
If I don't what I'm looking for at Bandcamp, Boomkat, Bleep, Qobuz or various label stores chances are that it's a physical-only release, in which case ripping it myself is always an option.
> If you want lossless audio, you literally can't find it
If you like electronic music, Bandcamp and Beatport (thankfully) sell stuff in lossless.
Bandcamp is arguably the best: largest cut for the artist; large range of format wth no extra cost for lossless.
I think management has a lot to do with this, or priorities in general because at the end of the day working with electron and web everywhere is on a superficial level just as difficult as working with other languages-- it's a matter of training and hiring the right people for the right jobs.
Any advice on a quality Lightning to 3.5mm adapter? The official Apple one is so flimsy that one or both channels cut out anytime I move the phone. My workaround is to heatshrink the cable and both ends, so it’s rigid enough not to cut out. But it’s ugly and probably won’t last more than a few months.
Use a cotton swab with some of the material plucked off to make it thinner and soak it in CAIG DeoxIT or MG Chemicals Electrosolve (you can typically buy these from Fry's / MicroCenter / online). These chemicals are made to actually clean and de-oxidize contacts.
You have dust/lint inside the bottom of the port that is preventing your connector from going in all the way. Get a fine tool and reach in and grab out the crud at the bottom. I had the same problem until I did this.
Yeah, there is no standard for high level APIs provided by operating systems. Everybody has always just done their own stuff. And it's not like the Open Source world is any better, with Linux and the BSDs coming up with their own solutions for common issues.
There's POSIX which is pretty great because it at least allows to write somewhat portable networking & io code. But for pretty much anything else, you'll have to write separate code for every OS, and it's always been the case.
I typically recommend Fiio gear for people just getting into higher-end audio. They have some great stuff for <$100 that can be a huge upgrade over smartphone / laptop / desktop output. https://www.fiio.com/amp
I subscribe to this post's message. I was reluctant at first, but after buying a pair of Sennheiser HD650 headphones and a Fiio E10K headphone amp/dac and I can definitely tell the vast improvement in sound clarity.
Fiio's devices are almost there but not quite. I do generally suggest the dx3 because it's a single expense, there's no actual hearable upgrade from it. It measures well and provides enough power for everything short of special cases (such as STAX).
You sure it isn't a problem with the speakers? I've had a couple different sets of similar monitors and several decent sets of headphones and have never had a problem with any of my external DACs and hissing. I had hissing whenever I used internal cards of any kind, but once I switch to external DACs all hissing went away.
Sure but that doesn't mean the default Apple audio jack is high quality.
I have a cheap USB DAC (bought from monoprice) to power a set of Beyerdynamic headphones. The DAC beat a macbook I was using for work hands down on quality of sound.
Specifically, I noted the DAC had better definition of sound meaning that I could pick out details better. It also had better spatial attributes as well, meaning that I could pick out instruments in 3d space.
To be fair, doing a D to A conversion in a laptop is hard, and while Apple does it relatively better than average, it's still probably better off done outside of the macbook itself.
My experience has been similar. The output on my MacBook was fine, until I hooked up an amp (coincidentally, my headphones are also Beyerdynamic; DT880s in this case). It sounded pretty bad to be honest, so then I hooked up the external DAC, and it was fascinating how big a difference it made. And I'm not an audiophile, so I usually don't really notice such differences.
So my post is downvoted to -3 and then bumped back up to 0. But there was no disagreement in the form of a response.
I'm not an audiophile either, but there is something about having listened to a track over and over again on an average pair of headphones and then listening to it again through a DAC and the DT770s I have. It's like hearing it for the first time again. Details just pop out and I really began to appreciate the engineering that went into some of the 80's songs I listened to on crappy car speakers when I was a kid.
BTW, the tracks I used to test the spatial qualities of my macbook was "Hard Time Killing Floor Blues" on the O' Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack, and "Blackbird" by the Kings Singers.
With the DT770's alone using the Mac jack, the Mac smeared the audio on both tracks. The first one especially because the mic used for recording introduces a distortion.
With the DAC, spatial on both were clear and came from point sources. Phenomenal.
> I have a pair of powered studio monitors (Mackie MR5), and I completely relate to this problem. Many PCs and phones will emit an audible hissing noise while plugged in. I've tested on a dozen different devices, with integrated and external DACs, five hundred dollar sound cards, massively shielded cables, practically every modern OS you can name, tweaking every audio setting exposed to me. The only devices that work perfectly are (1) my TV output, and (2) every single Apple product.
If almost every device has poor audio quality, maybe its not the device but the headphones that are your problem?
Have you tried using a DAC with a USB noise isolator? I don't get any hiss with my setup:
Neutron Player on Android > USB OTG cable > HiFimeDIY USB noise isolator > HiFimeDIY USB DAC > Beyerdynamic DT880
Although I don't use all that any longer, for convenience sake I just use a wireless Audiotechnica ATH-DSR9BT which supports aptX-HD and produces "good enough" quality with no hissing/noise.
I can plug them into an analog output device and they work perfectly. I'm talking about digital, and the only digital devices that work are a Vizio TV (possibly others, didn't really test against TVs), iPhones, iPads, and Macs.
You should use an external DAC connected to your digital device via optical or spdif connection. Then connect your monitors to your DAC. I bet this solves all your problems.
> Its more than just audio. Watching movies sucks; you now pay full price to effectively indefinitely rent movies, and have them taken away at any time.
This has always been the case, even when you "owned" the physical media. Owning a CD, DVD or even vinyl copy of audio/video did not mean you owned the content. It was always just a delivery mechanism. It always came with legal wording to state you didn't own the content, and were only allowed to listen/view in a private setting. You were not allowed to take the music and play it in public, you were not allowed to show the video to large groups of people (including in your own home).
Your OS is the same way. You don't own the software. You only pay for a license granting use of it on one computer.
You can disagree with me, but the legal aspect is still the same. You owned the physical delivery mechanism, and the single use license that delivery mechanism represented. Sure, you could sell that, but the point is still the same in that you never owned the content, legally speaking.
You never owned the copyright on the content, but you did own the thing. Not a "single-use license". Owning a CD is exactly like owning a book, in that way.
Grandparent was correct. Copyright law only allowed for private home exhibition of the music/movie. VHS tapes even came with a warning from the FBI. As in, the people who might show up at your house if you copied the movie or showed it to a large group of people.
Not only is it legal to resell media, but that FBI warning is not from the FBI at all, at least up until 2003. The FBI had nothing to do with that message before. They did finally authorize the use of their seal in 2003. Before that, just typical Hollywood trickery to scare people.
Yes and no, you need a different type of license for a public exhibition independent of the underlying media license.
Think of it as an underlying Windows OEM license that allows you to run Windows. If you want to hook computers together with an AD, you need client access licenses.
(Bear with me, This is the first time I’ve used Microsoft as an example to clarify a license issue.)
Point is, there’s a distinction between a public and private performance. I believe that different stakeholders get paid for each.
Interesting point buried in here: since Android is open source, you could go in and fix the bug, but then because you're not running an official Android version you'd lose access to the Play Store and other services. Something's not really free if there's a penalty for doing it. Since freedom to run a modified version of software yourself is one of the four freedoms of free software, this highlights the difference between free software and open source.
I'm not saying open source is bad and everyone should prefer free software. It's just a good example of the difference between the two in practice rather than in some debate about licenses and the abstract principles behind them.
Apparently Play Store is unaffected, but some other apps - banking, streaming, even Pokemon Go - will break. And your warranty (including hardware) is voided. So I stand corrected, and thank you, but I don't think the correction affects the main point.
Those apps are making a conscious decision to exclude phones/roms not certified by Google. That's their choice.
Generally hardware warranty will remain if it's purely a hardware issue - you can always flash back anyway.
Android is free software in the sense that you can make and distribute modified versions. If app vendors choose to discriminate against those versions that doesn't make it unfree any more than software supporting windows and not Linux makes Linux unfree
> Android is free software in the sense that you can make and distribute modified versions.
I don't think that's enough to make it free software, and "free software in the sense..." is nonsensical. Free software would guarantee the continuance of that freedom. Since that guarantee doesn't exist, Google could place limitations on the Play Store at any time. The fact that they haven't makes the example less clear, but it doesn't make Android free software. Even Google doesn't claim that it is.
No, only for apps that value certified behavior over accessibility. Typically this is payments (high liability for fraud, higher fraud rates from non-certified users), DRM, and multiplayer gaming (prevent cheating).
It’s not legal to void your warranty because you changed some software, unless the software change actually caused the problem you’re trying to get fixed under warranty.
> It’s not legal to void your warranty because you changed some software, unless the software change actually caused the problem you’re trying to get fixed under warranty.
The problem with this is that the bootloader is now becoming more and more locked down and the consumers have to jump ever more hoops to unlock it.
Some years ago I had Samsung S2 where unlocking the bootloader was an offline activity. I don't remember how but doing that was quick and easy. Now I own a MotoG4 where unlocking means going to some website, entering my email address and then receiving unlock code in my email. If Motorola knows my email address, or can link the (supposedly unique) unlock code to my phone, what's stopping them from voiding my warranty?
I have a hunch that newer versions of some mainstream phones do not allow unlocking the bootloader, and this is going to become more and more common.
So if I make a proprietary application that only runs on, say, Ubuntu, does that mean GNU/Linux is no longer really free, since you can't replace your distro with Arch without losing access to my application?
> does that mean GNU/Linux is no longer really free
I'd say it's a bit of a different situation, since the two are not being designed to work together and aren't even being developed by the same people. If the Ubuntu developers made your proprietary app key to the useful running of the system, which is the more exact analogy, then I'd say yeah, they would have made it non-free.
there is open source and open source thru google's gates.
on the later you submit patches, they will be included in the next 2 to 3 versions of public release (if they dont't add any feature that impacts google's ad bottom line, for example, adding any sort of referrer control to chrome), then you have to hope that in those 2-3 version cycle your device is still supported, now you just have to wait for the convenient over the ait update provided by your telco or phone manufacturer (in most cases you actually need both entities to take part)
That's not Google's gates, that's the OEM's and the ISP's. Google can only control that for their own devices, and the Nexuses have always been some of the most modded ones.
Google own the merge rigths, and what goes into each version. and their process timings ensure that by the time you patch is out, your device is not getting updates anymore (update timeframe that they set both in contract with oem or via "example" via their nexus series)
What merge rights? You can build Android yourself and install it directly on your phone, and let others do the same - unless if the OEM's and ISP's gates prevent you.
unless "your device" is the emulator, there is no way to get hold of drivers or firmware for anything other than lifting them of an blessed rom ... and only if you can get the parity you need with the kernel you are using.
there's a very good reason the "supported device list" of all forks is always very, very small (even with the outlandish claims on most of them such as "supported. touch screen and modem still not working" )
just becuase the build steps for your fork project automates some of that driver/kernel lifting, doesn't make it any better.
Mobile technology moves so fast Android can't keep up with the support of all hardware out there, so you can't simply buy any smartphone and expect everything to work with the latest Android release.
Because that debate tends to get very contentious. It's an important debate to have, but I've already been in it many times and watched it even more so I'm not particularly in the mood to go through it this morning.
> Right now I'm absolutely astonished at how difficult it appears to be to just listen to music with a good pair of headphones. Is it not 2018? The media is full of talk about preposterously ambitious ideas such as AI and self-driving cars and yet I can't even listen to a fuck-damn music track? O_o
I enjoyed reading this. The whole time I thought however: that’s not an issue on my Apple devices. Then I read:
> If anyone reads this post I'm sure loads of people will tell me that my problems are all my own making and if only I invested in an iPhone all my problems would go away. Well you know what? APPLE IS A SYMBOL OF PRETENTIOUSNESS AND IGNORANCE - YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW YOUR PHONE WORKS - I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A TAX TO APPLE TO LISTEN TO MY MUSIC.
Yeah, but what really gets under my skin is that every other company out there is okay with producing garbage.
Meanwhile, Apple produces things that work comparatively well, doing what you expect and then, claims that reasonable functionality is premium. And then catches shit for being pretentious.
So, let's step through that once more:
- garbage is normal
- functional and interoperable is premium
- premium is pretentious
- also, add $1,000 for the name brand
The author simultaneously complains that nothing works, but refutes using the only thing that works because it represents training wheels that are too fashionable and ostentatious.
We can have nice things because that's for babies, and also too overtly glamorous and bougie.
I just want shit that works out of the box sometimes. I also don't need X-Files alien logos and red backlit Hunt For Red October themes everywhere. And oh yeah, let's not get started on OEM spyware masquerading as harmless adware. (Cough! Lenovo! [0] Cough! Intel Management Engine! [1] Cough!)
Not everything at the <£100 price point is rubbish...
I recently got a £20 Havit Bluetooth receiver and connected it to a pair of £70 Sony MDR-7506 headphones. The receiver drives the headphones louder and with less distortion than my iPhone can, and the battery lasts for a few days of intermittent listening. Whatever loss is introduced by the aptX coding is invisible to my ears.
I'm blown away by how good this setup is given the price and there shouldn't be any dependency on an expensive source device to run it.
Not to bag on Rockwell, I appreciate his reviews and viewpoints, but do you trust that he has the requisite expertise to correctly analyse the quality of such an adaptor?
I... don't. His write-up doesn't inspire confidence either - I have no idea how he has performed the measurements.
I know enough to know that audio measurement is a very tricky endeavour, and most other measurements put the lightning adaptor's output at a few dBA worse in SNR and dynamic range than the iPhone 6S' jack output (but otherwise similar). Both are easily worse than a good external DAC. Certainly not "better quality" than the inbuilt option as Rockwell claims.
It's good enough for almost everyone, and is likely to be capable of higher fidelity than most source material, but most agree that it is objectively a worse DA.
I have to agree with the other commenter here. I have not noticed any difference moving from iPhone 6s to 7 (with dongle) listening through my Shure 530 headphones.
I got my first Mac when the Mac mini came up. It was a little more expensive than same-generation PCs but besides being OSX it was a PowerPC that never made any fan noise, and was small. I've subsequently had three Macbooks and two iPhones - but I can't afford this somewhat-better-somewhat-more-expensive racket anymore. Prices have risen too much; to boot, the quality gulf between Macs and garden-variety Dells and Acers has pretty much crashed. Macbooks have had multiple problematic years now; iPhones did away with headphone jacks; and OSX peaked at 10.6.8, where it indeed was five years into the future - but Windows 10 is decent now and even has the whole Unix toolkit with WSL.
Disclaimer: not trying to convince you, just sharing an anecdote like you did.
- I agree Apple pricing has gone out of control. I should not have to shell out 1500 EUR for a 256GB phone with a bigger display no matter what (XS Max). I mean okay, it's probably the best phone out there but come on. It's a mobile computing device, not a life's insurance bill.
- I fully agree MacBooks and desktop Macs haven't had good years in a while. IMO the MacBook Pro 2015 15" was Apple's laptop peak. They haven't produced anything worthwhile in the laptop departments ever since.
- Desktop Macs are a horrid mess where greed trumps everything else so much that even I who spent 6 figures on tech during my life cannot justify paying 5000 EUR for an iMac 27" 5K with maxed out specs (i7 CPU, 64GB RAM and 1 or 2TB SSD). Right now your only viable choice for a future-proof machine however is either the iMac 27" or the iMac Pro, and both are expensive as hell.
- macOS version, not sure, I started actively using it only a year or so ago so it feels quite good to me and is tons more predictable than Windows 10. You have to fight with Windows 10 to make it your own and not be barraged with popups. macOS in comparison stays out of the way.
---
To summarize, Apple has peaked, including in the smartphone and tablet departments. Upgrades are very smallish and iterative while the price tags remain huge.
The way I see it, Apple has been coasting for a while. They need to get back on track because inevitably somebody will try and displace them.
(As a random example, Xiaomi phones are probably the best physical designs and software experience I ever had. But I still don't trust Google's binary blobs and the general baseband processor stuff so I stay away from Android.)
>I should not have to shell out 1500 EUR for a 256GB phone
Yes, we're lucky that a lot of people in the world are not in a position to fight for higher quality of life for the resources coming out of the land near them or their labor, nor do we have to pay for environmental damage from manufacture and disposal of our devices, otherwise it would be much more than 1,500 EUR.
> At least on android you can get rid of most Google code with Lineage + microg
...as far as we know. What about the baseband processor that has access to everything at any time?
> Why do you trust the Apple ones then?
Becase they took a stand and refused to introduce a security backdoor in the FBI San Bernardino case. And because iPhone hacks cost more on the net compared to Android ones. This to me indicates that iPhones are harder to crack -- so the demand is higher, suppy is lower and thus the prices are higher.
All circumstantial evidence of course, but it's what we have to go on.
That doesn't mean much when flashing their ROM means voiding your warranty though. Also, their efforts don't really count in the very important areas like the OS security itself; Google reigns supreme there, mostly.
I am a former flashing-ROMs fanboy but the truth is, you are either stuck on ancient kernels or sometimes part with functionality you prefer to still have (like rooting).
It all depends on one's perspective. There was a time when a typical PC was $5000+ in today's dollars. We just got used to Moore's law bringing cheap disposables.
You're taking it pretty far off track. This article is about listening to music.
The "premium" only applies to new products. The author here tried using a CD player, so the storage (and novelty) requirements are pretty low. A $5 used iPod would work just fine.
"Yeah, but what really gets under my skin is that every other company out there is okay with producing garbage.
Meanwhile, Apple produces things that work comparatively well, doing what you expect and then, claims that reasonable functionality is premium."
If the standard is garbage, then functionality is premium.
Can I blame free market dynamics ? It's been a quite obvious trend since the 2000s. Audio components became commodities to reach bottom prices, no more middle class, good functionality is high end (which is now pushed to higher prices with branding like beats or devialet)
My kid has some wireless Beats headphones and she loves them because she likes how they look and they are very comfortable for her.
She might be able to find headphones that sound better, but she has never found any that also are comfortable and have good industrial design. At least not in the price range that Beats typically sell for.
That depends on your definition of functionality. Don't assume the purpose of Beats is to produce accurate audio. If the purpose is to make people feel good because they own the same headphones they saw some celebrity wear, they are apparently quite functional.
They added weights to their headphones to add a "quality" feel to them, because they were made of plastic and usually high-end headphones use metal in some places like the mounts and the headbands.
Did you really just call apples products interoperable? maybe among their other crap, but sure as hell not among other devices. Which are all interoperable among themselves btw.
And yet every time I go to a presentation or a lecture people ask to borrow my MacBook for it because their Windows or Linux laptops can never even connect to their projectors or Bluetooth speakers on the first try. Often they cannot at all connect.
Yet the MacBook connects to everything on the first go with zero fuss.
So yeah, I am calling part of Apple's functions and devices interoperable. Why aren't you? These are observable facts in the wild and it happens every day somewhere around you as well.
Hah. This is the opposite of every single experience I've seen at my work, where both PCs and Macs are supported. Usually the Mac person plugs into a projector and it doesn't work, or they don't have their adapter. The HP works every time.
Well if they don't have their adapter that's not really a problem with the Mac's compatibility now, is it? They simply forgot a very important piece that will help them achieve the goal. I don't blame my TV for not getting a signal from my PC if I lose my HDMI cable.
I know my experience is anecdotal. So is yours. Just shared what I've observed 30+ times now.
Fewer and fewer people can even recognize quality anymore. People mistake popularity for quality. They blindly trust brands. They accept things not working or falling apart. Companies have picked up on this, and don't have to invest in quality anymore. Prices get lower, then everyone has to not invest in quality. People would rather buy and throw away a $50 pair of shoes every year than buy a $200 pair and have it last 10 years.
> Although Android is Free Software, meaning I can modify the code, it would probably take me months to learn enough about music decoding and the Android-media-player-service to write a fix.
Followed by:
> APPLE IS A SYMBOL OF PRETENTIOUSNESS AND IGNORANCE - YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW YOUR PHONE WORKS
So iPhone users don’t know how their phone works, but Android is awesome because it’s open source and the freedom you get with that but it’s too complicated to learn how it works.
Yes okay, its about having the choice and the option. Its rooted in the fundamental instinct to cling to freedom and seek it out.
Even if you don't make a choice, having the option to is still empowering, because the absence of a choice tells you someone else made it for you.
For many, that could be the same choice they would have made. That doesn't give any condolence to those who would have made a different one, but weren't given the option.
I understand the need for people to feel like they have a choice by using free software (the choice to modify it if they want to), but at this point it is just an illusion unless you are prepared to dedicate a huge amount of time. If you practically couldn’t do it even if you wanted to, does it still mean you have a choice?
It’s a different time today than it was 40 years ago when RMS modified printer drivers, and software is much more complicsted than it used to be.
Theres a degree of philanthropy to free software contribution. Yes, there are often hacks and workarounds for problems in code that don't require dedicating the substantial time to learn a codebase and fix the problem forever, but if you do fix it you aren't fixing it only for yourself, but for everyone else who encounters that problem.
I've made dozens of contributions to esoteric projects - from music players to game emulators to HTML template libraries. It does take a ridiculous amount of upfront reading of code to become comfortable enough with the environment to make the change, but I at least only try to fix problems I see as impacting more people than just myself.
Sometimes I wish it were easier to just sit down, take the highest rated bug on a project, and spend all the time it would take to fix it. Its a shame I wasn't lucky enough to be born into wealth so I could just do that all the time. So instead I hope to get there sooner rather than later, where I can amass enough wealth to stop wasting my time on CRUD apps for some business interest and actually do something meaningful.
> Sometimes I wish it were easier to just sit down, take the highest rated bug on a project, and spend all the time it would take to fix it. Its a shame I wasn't lucky enough to be born into wealth so I could just do that all the time. So instead I hope to get there sooner rather than later, where I can amass enough wealth to stop wasting my time on CRUD apps for some business interest and actually do something meaningful.
This really hits the nail on the head.
Since I became a father of three, my time priorities have shifted quite a lot, and I’d rather spend it with my kids than nose in code that should work but isn’t.
A perfect example is trying to get Nextcloud or Lychee working. After literaly days trying to get it working right, I just gave up. All I want is to share pictures of my kids with my family, but due to bugs or config, I have to wade through someone else’s code?
Philantropy is for someone else’s benefit. If it was just at my expense, that would be one thing, but it’s at the expense of my kids too. And that’s something I can’t justify.
Totally depends on what you're thinking of modifying and how you want to modify it. Some experience gained through one modification also carries over to others, even when done on different programs. I've done modifications that only take a few minutes, and I have my systems setup so it's really, really easy to pick a package by name to modify it and distribute the mods to all my machines, complete with version control. I very much appreciate the ability to modify the free software I use.
Makes me wonder if the guy wants (subconsciously or not) to have more problems with technology he’s using just to have an opportunity to tinker with it to make it better. Certainly seems like the type.
Not necessarily a bad thing, though, but in such case he might as well drop the complaining tone.
Probably, I have spent 100s of hours to make my iPhones better when in reality they would have worked just as well without the modifications. I frequently see people complaining and finding issues just so they can try to fix it, rinse and repeat.
This also leads into his statement. I own an iPhone and I kinda know what's going on beneath the surface. I can open up disassembled binaries and anyone can look at the headers from google within seconds.
That in turn would lead into that 99.9% of Android users have no knowledge of how Android works, so his whole statement is kind of odd.
Which, as you allude to, is not guaranteed no matter what it says on the tin. Samsung is my go-to for that point. Not that features were half-assed, or kinda worked. No, having an icon on a screen does not count when what backs that icon doesn’t even pretend to do what it says. (To be specific, their fitness stuff was literally laughable in how broken or, lets be honest, how unimplemented it was.)
I think what gets missed is that the “Apple tax” (the “M$” for the 2000s, indicating the writer is to be ignored) is actually the “not a broken POS, and does what you thought it would do” convenience fee. Oh, sure, there’s Pixel and the like if you don’t like Apple. Last I looked, you’ll still pay the “Apple tax” even if it goes to Google.
And I swear, the next neckbeard ranting about how people don’t how their tech works either better take public transit to work, be ready to rattle off the Otto cycle used by their ICE car, or STFU.
After re-reading the blog, I feel a bit bad about the negativity I and others expressed here. If you do read this xylon, don’t take it to heart! Also thanks for sharing your circuit, it certainly provoked an interesting discussion.
> Although Android is Free Software, meaning I can modify the code, it would probably take me months to learn enough about music decoding and the Android-media-player-service to write a fix.
Android may be "open source", but it means little if you're not a company wanting to write their own clone, or a security researcher.
Would I be able to fix just the media player service, and make my smartphone use the fixed version? Without flashing it with a brand new OS, losing data, warranty, OEM drivers, and ability to receive security updates? Didn't think so. Android "open source" delivers only half of the expected value.
Is it actually open source in that you can actually submit a fix though?
Judging by the awful 'random' I would suspect not. (I havent used it I some time so it might have been fixed, but you used to get clustering of tracks from a given album)
I think it is just a matter of what one is most comfortable with.
The HW-solution is a nice challenge, but I am sure, there are simpler ways to solve it.
On a sidenote: I would be surprised if the issue he has is systemic too Android devices in general. I am sure others would have noticed it if was that widespread that it occurred on all devices.
I envy the people who have the free time to tinker but what they keep forgetting, time and time again, is that they are the minority. Many people have happy family lives and prefer to spend most of their leisure time with people -- or non-tech hobbies. I do enough programming already, thank you.
(EDIT to add: and not everybody is in perfect health shape as well, so they use their free time to recharge -- not to work some more. Stress and overworking come with an army of health issues. Climbing a hill with a 50kg backpack, to give an analogy, is not as easy as it looks like from the side.)
I respect smart hardware technicians but he lost me as an audience with his Apple hate.
+1 on "hate doesn't work". Just adding a perspective that you might be missing. The stuff that OP described doesn't really feel like "work" to him. To him its the exact thing you described - it helps him recharge - so that he can go back to "work" the next day :)
[P.S. "I do enough programming already, thank you." doesn't help as well. To get an idea of how sad it is to read, imagine if someone tells an artist "I do enough painting already, thank you.". People love to do different things, and that is okay.]
Yep, I know it helps them recharge. But I find it sad how oblivious they sometimes are that others might be so beat up that they need an almost passive recharge. :(
As for my programming, I actually do some small work outside of work hours on my own enthusiastic basis. But I have to tell you, even this minor 4-5h a week thing took me years of recharging and healing before I felt the passion for the first time in years and years.
(As an aside, we the techies need non-tech hobbies but that's just an opinion.)
Same thoughts except with my Android phone and Bose QC.
Wireless, noise cancellation and never any problems with explosive noise.
Also it is indeed 2018 so what's he doing with ripped CD's, there are a lot of streaming services out there right now.
This is fine if you're "stuck in your ways" (I want to use a less loaded term but can't come up with one) and have a collection of music you enjoy and have stopped keeping up.
It's not even keeping up with current music; as I go from my early to my late 30s, the pop landscape has gone from parseable to alien. But there's still good music coming out and older good music you didn't know about. Hell, I only discovered the gigantic German composer Paul Hindemith six months ago.
Either stuck in your ways, or want to save money. Streaming services are not free. Sure, it's a small amount but I simply don't want to add to my monthly costs. Still, streaming is much more convenient and in the short term, saves on disk space.
I still use streaming to discover but buy to own for disconnected times, which are usually intentional. For example, I don't want touch interface or internet connected anything while driving.
From what I can tell, the streaming catalog is still a small subset of the CD catalog, so if you're into discovering new music, you're restricting yourself by only using the former.
Good news - you can do both! I use Spotify for regular everyday listening and finding new artists/new albums by artists I like, and I collect vinyl for fun and to support artists more directly.
It's a well documented issue. Maybe your headphones and/or ears just aren't sensitive enough to notice the issue. Plenty of people don't see the difference between flac and 240p youtube uploads, after all.
Hmm, did you make the 240p vs FLAC strawman deliberately? Or is the bug (as you're able to reproduce it) really that bad? I know OP was using high-end headphones but I expected at least a slight hissle.
(My attempts to reproduce were with a PX80, S2PGFY-003, JBL Pulse and Bose Companion 50. I included the speakers because I couldn't get the headphones to do the trick)
I'm not sure why Apple is receiving any sort of praise here. I was constantly assaulted by an "explosion of noise" glitch when working with Logic Pro in OS X. I could have the system volume level set to the lowest possible setting (25% of 1 notch), and yet I'd still occasionally get deafening explosions of noise as if I had the system volume set to the full 16 notches. The explosion is just short enough that there's zero chance of you having any hope of ripping your headphones off as quickly as possible to spare your hearing. No, by the time you hear the explosion, it's already too late. I did in fact start losing my hearing from this and completely gave up on making music.
That sounds like a hardware problem or drivers issue. If it was a software problem, why give up on music when there are other options both free and paid like Reaper, Ableton, etc. which run perfectly fine?
I have not had any of the issues you are complaining about in Logic Pro X, FWIW, on multiple laptops and hardware audio interfaces over ~6 years of use.
> _It turns out that all music players on Android actually play music using the Android-media-player-service._
This is inaccurate. Neutron music player bypasses Android's Media Player APIs and talks directly to your DAC and plays music without resampling (if the DAC supports it). Never had any audio popping or explosions using Neutron, and I've tried it on 6 different devices so far without any issues (LG G3, Nexus 6P, Nextbit Robin, OnePlus 3, Note 8, OnePlus 6). My headphones are a Beyerdynamic DT880.
I've never had any problems with "explosions" using standard media players, even when plugged into my HD650s - anyone else have that happen?
HN is mostly engineering types, the poster clearly has that mindset, we should be filing or looking for a proper bug report for this instead of crafting hacks or talking about alternative products altogether right off the bat.
> we should be filing or looking for a proper bug report for this instead of crafting hacks or talking about alternative products altogether right off the bat
As if Google even considers reading any bug reports ... :(
The downside of that is, of course, greater battery consumption. MediaPlayer API will offload music playing to a separate DSP (if available) and that allows the main application processor to go to sleep. There is some nuance here, but that usually significantly reduces battery consumption while playing music with the screen off.
IMHO your circuit topology looks wacky. Perhaps there's a goal to making your amplifier ground ride in the middle of the waveform, but it could just as well be unintentional. So my immediate thoughts -
You've already got a real split supply with 2x 9v batteries. If you use that instead of deriving a virtual ground, you will save 9mA of quiescent current.
How purposeful is that whole low side duplicated circuit and why? [0] It seems like since you're using batteries, hooking signal ground directly to your ground and driving the output single ended would work fine. Or if you want to work towards being able to AC-power, then a differential input op-amp topology and still drive the output single ended.
Isn't there a vibrant cottage industry of external USB DACs and headphone amplifiers and whatnot? I'm more of a receiver+speakers type of a person, but I often see newly designed stuff for headphones.
[0] Driving both sides does get you the ability to swing the output a full 36 volts. But given that your goal is to cut the signal by 11 and also that by mixing both channels you can't actually do that lest you get crosstalk in the form of clipping, I don't think this is your goal!
I think the trick here is that the resistors are much more precise than two batteries of unknown origin will be at providing a symmetric supply voltage without further stabilization. So they serve as a 50/50 voltage divider whatever the input voltage is, 7+9 or 6+8 on half full (or half empty, depending on your mental make-up) batteries, it would still work just fine.
Binding the central line between the two 9V batteries to GND would give you the situation you describe, indeed you could then drop the resistors but now you have a fairly high risk of ending up with an asymmetric supply voltage, which means one side will clip earlier than the other.
Is this really a common thing? I don't really have experience with battery powered audio processing circuits. In my experience you usually create a virtual ground when you've got no other choice, like say signal conditioning with a single ended supply.
Yes, in battery powered stuff it is pretty common. When working from a single supply it is a quick and easy way to use operational amplifiers.
That the author used two batteries in series did not change much in that respect (and internally those 9V batteries are a stack of 6 cells anyway). The alternative would be to use the common rail between the two batteries as a ground and then two regulators (or simply a Zener and a follower transistor, same effect for less cost) to get say plus and minus 7 or 8 volts depending on how far you want to run the batteries down and what kind of specs that op-amp has.
Most op-amp circuitry would be +- 15V, but they usually work on much less than that. The circuit as presented here probably has a DC bias that is in the 100's of mV, there is no adjustment for it either so it is a bit of a kludge the way it is set up. There are better ways to do this, it all comes down to part variation and that should not be a factor in a good schematic.
There are single supply op-amps too, but in this case I suspect the voltage required to drive those headphones properly was the major deciding factor in using two stacked 9V cells.
> But in this case I suspect the voltage required to drive those headphones properly was the major deciding factor in using two stacked 9V cells
Maybe it was the deciding factor for whomever designed the original circuit. But in this incarnation with the 11x attenuation, the input signal would have to be above 80V for this to matter! It's obviously modified from some folk audio design, I'm just trying to figure out how much of its oddity actually has some purpose.
Yes, it definitely looks like a 'stacked hack', not something that was designed with purpose by someone who really knew what they were doing. No mention of distortion, no bias adjust, DC coupled (could be good, could be really bad depending on the bias...).
There are some pretty good headphone amplifier circuits out there, most of them a little bit more complex than this but with what I would expect to be far superior specs.
You do not need an absolutely precise dead-centre reference voltage for this application! It just has to be far enough from the either rail to avoid clipping.
If the batteries have gone that far south, they need replacing.
What I'm wondering is why the 1k resistors in the power supply. Wouldn't 100k, 1M or 10M resistors drastically cut the idle current consumption? Or would that compromise the performance of the opamps by choking them off from the current they need?
This way you don't increase the BOM complexity, just a second of the same chip and the same resistors.
Technically, also your THD+N adds in parallel instead of being chained, although I'm not sure there will be a discernable difference unless you uave some kind of phase delay issue (in which case you should fix that first...)
I’ll happily pay the “apple tax” so I can live my life and not have to deal with all the bullshit you did just to listen to some music. Good lord. I’d rather experience the world then mess around with the tech that’s supposed to be helping me live better.
> I’ll happily pay the “apple tax” so I can live my life and not have to deal with all the bullshit you did just to listen to some music.
This. All of this. The author calls apples products pretentious and berates anyone who owns one for not knowing how their phone works. You know what? I don't give a flying fk about knowing how my phone works. I have a million other things to worry about in this world. It doesn't make me pretentious to spend extra to have an experience I don't have to think about.
That's such a straw-man it hurts. You're concluding, from the fact that a user has found one obscure bug, that android is a broken mess that only Arch Linux types should dare mess with, while Apple products are bastions of stability. The reality is that Apple products are (it appears) no more bug-free than the rest.
Have you tried testing this very same thing on an iPhone? Maybe it even has the same bug!
The above comment is reacting directly to a quote in the article, not jumping to any new conclusions.
“If anyone reads this post I'm sure loads of people will tell me that my problems are all my own making and if only I invested in an iPhone all my problems would go away. Well you know what? APPLE IS A SYMBOL OF PRETENTIOUSNESS AND IGNORANCE - YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW YOUR PHONE WORKS - I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A TAX TO APPLE TO LISTEN TO MY MUSIC.”
Is it really "such a straw man"? Serious question, I'm trying to figure it out. The part about "just to listen to some music" is definitely exaggerating, since OP wants to listen to music and relax. Also, GP doesn't recognize that the tech that's supposed to be helping them live better may not be doing that by OPs standards. Is that what you're talking about? I did think what OP went through could be considered a lot of bullshit though.
Also, by the way, aren't you doing something similar? Exaggerating about GP's regard for android/apple; GP simply said they would rather pay a tax than go through what OP did. Am I mistaken? Though yes, in this case the apple tax may not even have helped.
Hey now! I had been using Arch and Debian om different machines. All non-prod machines have since been moved to Arch because I was having more issues with Debian. Granted I require running the newest stable software, but the act of getting that software onto my Debian machines was breaking other things. Arch? Never had to mess with anything I didn't want to mess with (I use i3 and write most of my own utilities)!
Not really. I made that choice. I also run/ran the exact same setup on my Debian machines. Could use my wife's machine as an example. Runs Arch, uses Plasma for a WM and never has any problems.
I don't doubt it. I use i3 & arch at home and have for almost a decade without problems. I use i3 and debian at work and enjoy it far less. I'm merely stating that your exactly the kind of person that likes to tinker with things and is likely not just going to accept defaults.
It’s amusing to still hear “Apple tax” in 2018, as if there is no additional value in better hardware, software and support for many people’s use cases.
If anything, the 'Apple tax' is greater in 2018 than it has ever been.
I say this as having owned 3 Macs for the last 10 years. 4-8 years ago, the gap between Apple and the rest was so stark, it seemed paying for a premium Apple product was a no-brainer.
Even Linus got a Macbook air because the hardware was such a leap ahead.
Not only has the gap closed, Apple have been left behind, with inferior build quality in key areas (keyboards). This has coincided with raising prices further.
The 'Apple tax' is now a real phenomenon, not just the price of premium.
I know. The choice of Apple vs. Android is a trade-off, as is the choice of Apple vs. Microsoft/Windows 10. It all depends on what's most important to you and what makes most sense.
For me, at the moment, in my personal life Apple makes more sense. I wish it made more sense at work because Windows 10 drives me nearly crazy, but it doesn't, so I stick with Microsoft's offering for now.
> It’s amusing to still hear “Apple tax” in 2018, as if there is no additional value in better hardware, software and support for many people’s use cases.
Being a golden cage, I would not argue that it is better software.
Is another 8gb of RAM or 128gb of storage worth $200 each? I guess it is when you have no option to upgrade it after purchase. Apple doesn't do the decency to give you proper hardware either, opting for previous generation processors and a keyboard who's reliability is still up in the air even after their third attempt. Apple is further undermining their lofty pricepoint each product release.
I always thought of the apple-tax not as the cost of the product but the additional costs, like fifty dollar dongles because the new version doesn't use the same connectors as the old, or being forced to use iTunes, itself a montrosity of painful design, to put some mp3s on your mp3 player. As far as I can tell, Apple still charges $50 for a $2 wire dongle.
Seriously, people, do you get paid for this marketing in every topic that doesn't directly concern Apple? You didn't even seem to read the article to understand it.
Would I prefer to have a more open phone and computer? Sure. At the cost of having to ever tinker with it? No.
I just switched my home built raspberry + HiFiBerry with expensive speakers to a simple closed Sonos system for the exact same problem the author had with linux, audio hardware, noise. Having something that just works and I don’t have to care how is a blessing and in the future that is where I’ll put my money. Ignorance is bliss.
Everyone seems to be seeing this as an Android vs. iOS debate, but I see it as a smartphone vs. dedicated device debate. If you're serious enough about photography, you don't complain about your smartphone camera's limitations, you get yourself a DSLR and multiple lenses. So if you're this serious about music, why not get a dedicated device? Look at what companies like HiBy and Hidizs are doing. I have, and my ears haven't been this happy since the early aughts.
For the same reason I don't want to carry a big heavy DSLR around with me, because there's a limited number of devices I want to lug around.
I ditched the DSLR years ago (yes, it took great photos, but not enough to make it worth the hassle). Though I still bring a pocket sized camera with me when I travel because my smartphone still can't compete with a big sensor and an optical zoom.
While a dedicated MP3 player is small (to be honest, I didn't even know they were still made), it's just one more thing to keep track of and keep charged up.
It doesn't have to be a whole separate device. The Audioquest Dragonfly is the size of a USB stick, runs off your phone's power, and provides excellent DAC/amp capabilities. Fiio also makes some similar mobile DAC/amps.
No, it's an issue with the hardware manufacturers making things hard to hack on in the name of security. It's lazy and not well thought out... though I guess it beats having your CC numbers stolen all the time for now?
Seriously, you don't even need to spend a lot of money. If you search your local goodwill or garage sale circuit you can find some really nice old audio equipment. Pick up a CD player and a nice reciever for cheap.
I'm a bit flabbergasted by all the "wow this person just wasted all his free time fixing a nonexistent problem instead of just getting an iPhone" on Hacker News of all places. Yes there's an ideological bent to the whole exercise but that's precisely the kind of passion you need to deep dive into creating your own audio device over a minor annoyance. Yes it's clunky and expensive to maintain but you have to admire the commitment and technical expertise to build a working product from scratch.. It was an entertaining read and I'm sure a good mental jog for the author.
If he had just said "I want a phone I can tinker with, so the iPhone doesn't fit the bill", no one would object. The problem is his claim that Apple is a symbol of pretentiousness and ignorance, simply because it provides convenience and out-of-the-box usability without needing to know how it works. Most people don't tinker for a living / hobby, and thus don't have the luxury of spending large amounts of their valuable time figuring out how the device works and tinkering with it.
Not understanding this actually a sign of pretentiousness and ignorance.
Thank you and others for pointing that out. I can see how a blanket insult that would unintentionally fit many Hacker News users would lead to a pile on. I've been on an iPhone forever but I've stopped considering it and Apple part of my identity. It was such an extreme statement in an otherwise interesting article that I took it as humor to be honest.
That's a stretch. You picked a single feature and use that to say Apple provides better out of the box useability. Google/Android are better than Apple at most things that matter, including photos and maps.
Its not that he spent the time and effort to do it. I personally took exception the sentiment that iPhone owners are somehow less competent or capable simply because they would rather spend their time solving problems other than listening to music on headphones.
There's a lot of smart and well-off people on HN that are not tinkerers. This article scratches the itch for tinkerers who could envision walking through the described steps themselves. On the flip side, this would be a non-problem to others, simply purchase the other thing and stop griping about manufacturer's cent-saving BOM hacks.
Anyway, if the problem becomes big enough, some individual/organization will see the market opportunity somewhere, hopefully.
I know several very smart and creative hardware technicians and system administrators. I admire them. I truly do. They are more independently thinking than most other programmers I know, are much more resistant to trends and fashion in technology, and rarely complain about the tech they must use. Throw Python, Perl, PHP, bash and what not at them, they can and will curse but will get the job done every time.
In that regard, they are hard-working and resourceful. And I have a lot of respect for them.
That being said, I cannot help but notice things common among all of those that I know or used to know:
- Apple hate without any regard for the advantages it gives you.
- They use 80-100% of their leisure time to tinker and work outside their main work hours. One of them recently got divorced by his wife. She said the guy barely spent any time with her. I don't know if their relationship wasn't sour before but still, it's partially indicative.
- Obliviousness how Android is not the end-all-be-all of free software -- because it's not; Android is PARTIALLY open-source and comes with a lot of strings attached. Flash a ROM and your warranty is voided. But to them, if you can tinker with your tech then you absolutely, factually, practically, and for all intents and purposes, are using free tech. Details like warranties and hours-long sessions to make basic functions work again be damned in the process.
- Complete disregard for convenience and utter lack of respect for others' time. As mentioned above, they usually spend most of their free time working, are not stressed out or burned out, are in good health shape, and find it mysterious that people might be exhausted and would just want to lie on the couch reading a favourite book -- or napping.
---
I am somewhat saddened to say the OP's article confirms my bias towards hardware technicians. He's undoubtedly smart and good at what he does but also heavily biased and lacks perspective.
I believe such resourceful people should be more open-minded. If he's reading this, I hope he takes it as a constructive feedback from the sidelines and not bashing. All I am saying is that their attitude is not helping them being taken more seriously. If you turn a blind eye to nuances (case in point: Apple hate from his side) then you are not objective in your discussions.
Hate doesn't work, I'll give you that. I'm hopeful that OP takes your feedback :)
But you're very mistaken about the "disregard for convenience". Almost every human strives for convenience, even the folks you are talking about, they spend a lot of time writing automation scripts to make their work convenient. Just like you advice, please be open-minded to the idea that for some people convenience is just one checkbox on the list (unlike others, maybe including you, where convenience is of prime importance). For some people, real convenience comes from both functional convenience and tinkerability - having the confidence that they can make the product what they want to do - without feeling limited by the manufacturer's decisions. At the end its about tradeoffs, and when it comes to personal choice, people simply have different priorities.
To give you an objective example, when I buy a router, I always first go for an Asus. Why? Their UI is super easy to use - and at the same time, if you want, you can get it do to more powerful stuff. Just like Apple (as folks claim), their support is great (I've got replacements, no questions asked) but, unlike Apple, they actually encourage you to tinker around.
So in this case, hell yeah, I do pay the extra premium for convenience.
> Just like you advice, please be open-minded to the idea that for some people convenience is just one checkbox on the list
Noted, agreed and upvoted. :)
From my experience with these folks, when I complained about the 1st gen Chromecast I had 3 or so years ago, one of them casually told me "Oh, just buy an RPi and install KODI on it, also make sure your TV and HDMI cable support HDMI-CEC. You should be sorted pretty quickly, probably three or four hours".
I had to laugh bitterly when he said that! Back then I was much less healthy compared to now, was constantly exhausted, was struggling with debts and crappy jobs, was trying to heal from a failed and ended marriage -- and in general I had a ton on my plate basically 24/7.
And along comes this guy and casually tells you that you might spend a half working day on a project for home streaming -- and he told it to me while full-well knowing my situation. It was pretty inconsiderate in my eyes.
---
It's not even only about putting convenience at the top of your priorities. Sometimes you're just tired. Or have kids constantly demanding attention. Or are trying to heal from stress and burn out (like I am trying now). There are a plethora of VALID reasons why you wouldn't embark on such DIY projects.
And to me, these people easily and off-handedly dismiss them. Which I view as inconsiderate and disrespectful. They are judging things from their own life (which is easier than mine, at least regarding the people I know) and don't give the benefit of the doubt.
But I concende that I might be projecting based on my several such negative experiences. I am not stereotyping all hardware technicians and sysadmins. I also concede that I don't give benefit of the doubt every time. :)
It's just that when things repeat themselves several times, we the humans -- at least I -- tend to try and draw a conclusion.
I admit I could be wrong. Your perspective was appreciated!
You're not wrong, but just remember that there are people in this world looking at you and all of us "nerdy engineers" exactly the same way.
Not that we need to stress about that, I mean we all look like douchebags to somebody. I just think you might be jumping the gun with character judgements such as them not respecting your free time. The guy who told you to spend 3 hours tinkering with your Chromecast would probably love working on that project himself, and assumed you might enjoy it too. He might have been trying to help you take your mind off of the stresses he know you were dealing with.
Perhaps that level of obsession is what makes them good at their jobs. You can't really fault people for wanting greater control over the tech they own. Repairability of hardware and true control over what we can install on our phones might not seem important in the name of convenience but I'm grateful for these people fighting the good fight and drawing attention to these issues.
Apple hate without any regard for the advantages it gives you.
Apple's official position is that you should be arrested if you do anything with "your" device that they don't approve of. If somebody is inclined to tinker with everything, I'm not going to blame them if their reaction to that could be described as "hate".
Is this actually a bug in Android (confirmed by someone else on a different phone) or is it a bug in the implementation by this OEM? I haven't experienced it but I also do not use this writer's particular sound files.
I think the underlying point is very important. It does seem like quality has been sacrificed in many products to shave a few pennies off the BOM. Why should today's portable CD players be substantially worse than the ones available in 1995? I get that they are asking $25 instead of $115. But SONY and Panasonic have left the market, leaving it to the drugstore quality ones, and they don't appear to want to make a product that plays a clear sound.
As far as circuits are concerned, I can't help but notice that a TI TPA6100A2 costs $1.11 at qty 1, and outputs stereo from a 1.6-5.5V single supply drawing a max of 50mw. This would substantially reduce the weight and power draw of his mini amp. A couple rechargable AA batteries would do.
They are not shaving BOM pennies, they are shaving NRE pennies. The components to produce good audio are dirt cheap, even for a consumer product, even in quantity. Keeping digital noise out of analog circuits, however, takes effort. Getting the software to not drop step functions at inopportune moments takes even more effort. They won't do these things unless they feel they have to.
Converting an electric signal into mechanical movement takes energy. Thus, current needs to flow from the audio amplifier in the CD player to the headphones. In electronic terms: the headphones have a low impedance (AC resistance).
Due to a poorly designed circuit in the CD player, noise is introduced when current flows. So the more current is flowing, the more noise. Driving a dynamic load is not hard, it has been solved for a long time. The vendor just chose a poor design, probably to shave a couple tenths of a cent from the material bill.
A proper designed amplifier requires very little current (ideally none) on the input. In electronic terms: the amplifier has a high impedance. Thus the amplifier causes very little noise when connected to the cheap CD player.
The OP build a better amplifier that causes less noise when current is drawn from it, so using that results in a better quality sound.
I'm no EE, but dynamic headphones (i.e. 99.5% of them) have a generally high impedance (relative to earphones) and require a higher voltage to operate. Add to that the fact that they are a mostly inductive load, and you get the recipe for a hard to drive device, that requires a high voltage paired with an strong inductive kickback
I love how people can do this type of stuff. Whenever I get out the soldering iron to fix any problems, I face a 50% chance of success against 50% chance of fucking it beyond repair. Well, I guess it fixes it in both cases...
A USB DAC+amp seems like the right answer if you don't want to break out the soldering iron and don't want to buy an Apple product. I just don't think makers of commodity hardware have much incentive to spend money on good audio circuitry. But if their USB ports didn't work, well, that would be a real problem. I have an earlier model of this:
that delivers good audio quality (to my non-audiophile ears). The one I have is not perfect: there's some static when you turn the volume knob (maybe a good design tradeoff at the price, I don't know), and the metal edges on the enclosure were sharp enough that I took it apart and filed them down a bit (others might not have been bothered by this, but I was). But there sure isn't any background hissing like there is with the built-in headphone jack on my Dell workstation.
Most modern laptops have more than decent audio output, but if more quality is needed one could buy a small external sound card for a lot less than €100.
This one for example would fit easily in a notebook bag.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/miditech_audiolink_light.htm
About the article circuit, I 'm not that sure the 5532 is a good part for headphone amps, unless the phones have a high impedance and resistance: they're intended as preamplifiers (and very good ones) so they hardly can supply the current to fully drive phones, though I guess they can still be ok for listening to soft jazz in a quiet room:)
Regarding the op amp selection, he just used them because he had them lying around.
"If you wanted best possible sound you'd use some actual audio op-amps rather than these cheap NE5532P. And buffer the output of the op-amps somehow. But of-course size and cost balloons if you start adding buffers and stuff."
What I like about his project how he simply used a couple magnets to hold the lid on. Microsoft did something similar on my keyboard, but I don't know that it is something used much on DIY projects like this.
Could’ve spent $199 on an iPod, have high quality audio, load your own music, no “apple tax”.
Coincidentally I was looking for something like an ipod shuffle this week and it’s become almost impossible to find, beyond some cheap thrift-store MP3 players.
There's actually quite a bunch of less than $199 solutions (and also not requiring a soldering iron) the OP could also have used to achieve a good experience listening to music.
One solution would have been to just buy that 15 year old hardware he talks about, a lot of older digital music players still just work, I have a bunch of them. Or an external soundcard for a laptop. Or stream music from phone to a Raspberry Pi with a DAC. Or a portable CD player which doesn't hiss.
Ah, I miss my good ol' Sandisk Sansa Clip+. This device with rockbox firmware and a MicroSD-Card had an amazing interface, enough storage for lots of music, supporting FLAC and other lossless formats, all while being small, lightweight and providing high audio quality. For about 40 bucks.
I was getting tired of replacing batteries in another device
and after some searching located the SanDisk Clip Sport. It was also only around $40. USB rechargeable, FM radio, and a micro SD card for my music. I've been very happy with it.
My last three Android phones (two Motorola and an HTC) have excellent sound from their headphone jacks. I use my phone and two iPads on a regular basis with headphones, and I've never heard pops between tracks or noticeable hiss with any of them.I
I write audio software on embedded Linux devices for a living. I know what clicks and pops between tracks sound like, and usually why they happen. But I don't think this guy's two-op-amo buffer is doing what he thinks it's doing.
Likewise - never experienced any of these issues from any android phones I've had (mainly nexuses and pixels, but some old HTC things years and years ago), both wired and via bluetooth.
a. What in these files triggers the explosion of noise (and whether other people have run into this or the author would mind sharing a representative problem file).
b. Whether an output attenuator (or "resistor") would work to quiet the noise (edit: the hiss, not the explosion) without a powered circuit.
Hi, this isn't related to the parent comment, but I'm wondering why you went through all this effort, which you don't seem to have enjoyed, just to be able to listen to music at home but not at your desk. Isn't all the stuff you have pretty bulky to be carrying around? Not to mention the portable CD player probably skips if you're walking around with it somehow in a pocket.
It seems like all of this could be solved with some bookshelf speakers. You can hook up your portable CD player or browse Craigslist/Goodwill for an older HDCD player that'll run higher sampling rates and queue up multiple CDs, have music for cooking/cleaning/exercising. Maybe even get a Chromecast Audio and have effortless streaming.
a: I had a similar issue on my Sandisk player and it was due to corrupt data on the SD. Formatting it then copying back the files from a backup solved the problem. the author's problem is different though; it seems his player doesn't like some files although they appear to be undamaged. I agree it's probably a bug in the decoder.
b: a voltage divider would attenuate everything so the listener would end up raising the volume and the noise explosions would be unaffected. In my experience those noises are much louder than the music even at its louder peak, so a limiter would work better. A limiter is a circuit which let the audio signal unaffected up to a given level, then if necessary it starts limiting it to keep it to maximum that level. The limiter should be set up to trigger only with levels above the maximum original audio signal, so that although the noises wouldn't disappear, they would be confined to a lower level with the original signal left untouched.
Ah, I missed the hissing part. Apparently he gets that noise only from a CD player, and that noise is constant through all song and unaffected by volume settings. That would mean the audio section of that player is really noisy and/or possibly the volume control has been put in the wrong place, for example too far (circuit wise, not distance) from the power amplifier section.
When connecting multiple stages together care must be taken to minimize noise. Besides careful design and choosing low noise parts, some practices can at least reduce the perceived noise even on noisy devices, for example by putting the volume control just before the power amplifier. This ensures that when the user lowers the volume the noise generated by previous stages gets also lowered along the signal.
I don't have this issue on my Android phone (G5+) but I did have a very similar issue on my laptop (XPS 9350) where there was lots of line noise whenever the power management turned off the audio chipset.
So I wonder if it's something with this specific phone?
If he's able to get that much of an improvement with 5532s, I'm curious what he could get if he used modern opamps. Granted, the 5532 has been the opamp to beat for sound quality for decades, but someone posting by the handle NwAvGuy dis a shootout of opamps comparing and measuring the specs that actually matter for quality audio use back in 2011[1]. That was 7 years ago, and the various component vendors have released some new devices since. I suspect a slight redesign using a 2068 for the gain stage and a 4556 for the buffers would do even better, and drain the batteries slower because of less quiescent current of modern devices.
The circuit design looks weird to me. Wouldn't it be better to use a inverting setup on the opamp to get get some attenuation, and then feed the gain stages into a high-current opamp like the 4556 as a buffer to drive the headphones, or perhaps a transistor that'd be good at the job? And why are there a pair of parallel gain stages on the ground line? Why not just throw your gain stages on the signal lines, ground ground and let it be ground?
I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A TAX TO APPLE TO LISTEN TO MY MUSIC.
Is it better to pay a tax to Google and not be able to listen to your music?
(I say that as an Android user who hasn't run into this problem, though 90% of my listening is through streaming services, I still have all of my CD's sitting on a hard drive, but they are all (as far as I know) available over streaming now, so I just use that)
Heh, I’ve had a Bluetooth set of earbuds from JBL for about 2 years and they’ve been providing great sound (and are really convenient as I work like an auto electrician a lot of the time and I can leave my phone in the toolbox). A good alternative perhaps besides building a portable amplifier.
I bought a Bluetooth speaker a couple of months ago. Sounds great, but if I watch a video, the sound is lagging. I thought about to get Bluetooth headphones, but after that experience I think, I just stay with cables.
To ensure (kind of) that your BT speaker/headphones will be able to work with video, check they implement "AptX low latency".
However, as they mention in the video, there are lots of ways this could fail: application playback issue, BT transmitter issue (although anything from the last few years should be able to handle this properly) or receiver issue (the most likely cause in older or cheap speakers).
Boy does this person need to look at the ‘good headphone’ market.
I paid (a very reasonable) $2k for a set of reference headphones and a suitable amp/DAC to drive them.
I could have spent a lot more.
It is hard to drive a set of headphones with enough SQ to make them worthwhile.
You cannot plug a set of headphones into an Android phone and expect anything good to happen. And lots of DAPs suffer from software problems as well (lots of them are Android based...).
Getting good sound from a portable device, without software issues, is really only solved at the top end of the market ($700 - $4000).
It’s a bit easier if you want to use a computer as a source but far from cheap.
> It is hard to drive a set of headphones with enough SQ to make them worthwhile.
I disagree. Most headphones are really easy to drive, including many high end ones. And DIY builders are making perfectly good & cheap amps using parts that have been available for more than two decades now. Parts that used to make it in stereos and other off the self supermarket stuff.
I'm more than happy to plug my AKG K812 to laptops (such as a thinkpad T460s), android phones (such as LG G4, One Plus 6), portable media players (such as the Cowon D2). My Sennheiser HD650s, HD800s, and AKG K701s are generally plugged to external DACs and amps mainly because I use them at the desk (or with my music gear). But I've tried all of them on various consumer gear and many of them can deliver good sound. The Sennheisers, however, can be a little too quiet with some of the portable devices.
What the author of the linked story here is complaining about is the race to the absolutely garbage bottom (though it isn't nearly as bad for people with less sensitive phones).
I used to plug my AKG k702s (which are maybe not 'audiophile' $2k headphones, but are good enough) into a pixel 1 without any issues.
Alas after an 'upgrade' to a pixel 3 after I crushed the first one against the deck while sailing, I had to buy a bluetooth dac and that doesn't seem to do as well.
If you're over 12 you just wasted some money. Your ears are going downhill pretty much from the day you are born. Really good audio equipment is wasted on almost every adult.
I've tried a few different pairs and the pricepoint where sound quality becomes "good enough" seems to be somewhere around ~£35. If you want a microphone too, bump that up to ~£50.
My _purely anecdotal_ experience is that cheaper headphones tend to work well for pop music, likely because their reproduction range is bass heavy. Sadly the moment you want to add podcasts into the mix, the balance is off. Spoken word just sounds stuffy.
When I'm not on the move, you can pry my AKG K270 off my cold, dead hands.
Did you try any more expensive ones? If not, how can you compare? I don't think you know what you're missing. From my experience, you realize how bad cheap ones are is when you try something better. For example, I thought AKG Y20 sounded pretty good before getting the chinese TFZ series 2, which are just so much 'more'. I am aware that those tfz are also lower range (~45$ on aliexpress). I also own a pair of Beyer DT770 80ohm 100 eur headphones and those are something else, esp when I had a Focusrite Saffire to drive them. Of course there is a price point after which it gets harder to notice improvement. But only after trying out different types and price points do you start to understand what sounds good and what you actually like. For me, all cheaper ones just sound muddy or like the sound is trapped in some box or tin, and I also notice sounds and instruments missing in songs I know well.
If I'll enjoy my current ones less after trying more expensive ones, isn't that a reason not to try them?
I do see a difference between the branded ones I've used (mostly Panasonic and the Samsung AKG one that comes with phones) and the cheaper generic ones I've tried out here and there
For example, I couldn't tell the difference between some ~100$ and "reference" ~1000$ headphones, so I am not the person to buy high end DACs, fancy shielded cables or whatnot. But I like some thumping bass and clarity in the top end. It's therapeutic for me to have an immersive experience where the sound just floats around you, sort of 3d vs flat.
Same here. I've found that cheap (£10-15) sony "ear-plug"-style ones [1] have been really surprisingly good for just wandering around shops and listening to pod casts or some music on my phone. Not worth paying more IMO since they get lost, or you lose one of the silicon-bits, or the wires get lose fairly frequently.
There are some very crap ear buds around (e.g. Norwegian Air's freebie handout ones are quite possibly the worst things I have ever used), but I was pleasantly surprised by the sony ones. No relation - just a satisfied customer.
A $100 amp and good headphones do the job just fine. The current generation of phones has very high quality DACs, beyond what was considered top of the line for premium audio players 5-10 years ago.
Can't say I've ever had the explodey sound any of my Android phones through the audio jack. I've had it a handful of times with some bluetooth buds, but I'd just as soon chalk it up to their cheapness.
I do have the hissing sound he's described when using my ATH-M50's with my phone, and even my laptop. My solution (albeit more expensive than his DIY one) was to buy a portable DAC/amp, specifically a Fiio E17[0]. It connects via USB/micro/C, and it's worked on every laptop and Android phone I've had since the Samsung GSII. It also used to be able to dock with a separate desktop amp[1], until my dock broke. There are plenty of other portable, Android-compatible DAC's that are not too expensive. It's a bit of a bummer to feel like you need to pay for yet-another-piece-of-gear just so you can enjoy your audiophile headphones with your audiphile-quality music on the go, but sometimes that's the price of fidelity.
For < $100, I got a USB device which is a DAC+PreAmp+HeadphoneAmp which works great with all Androids, iPhones and computers. I didn't have to solder or breadboard.
Can anyone comment on what's going on with the ground channel in the circuit here?
Seems like you would want to tie the input ground to the virtual ground between the two 9Vs and then maybe buffer the output ground, but this circuit doesn't do that - it just replicates the L/R chains twice between grounds.
Also, what's the point of adding the two 9Vs and then splitting them again with the two 1k resistors? Why not just pull ground from in between the two 9Vs?
The duplicated amplifier as ground design is pointless and pretty much strictly worse than using a normal ground, but has somehow become semi-popular among certain misguided parts of the audiophile community. Good article about it here[1].
The problem with just using the middle of the batteries as ground is that it creates a potentially headphone-damaging DC offset if the batteries drain unevenly for whatever reason. The resistor bridge is the simplest way to avoid this problem, though there are lots of ways to create a dual rail power supply with various tradeoffs[2].
> Battery life is only a few hours unfortunately because the circuit draws an enormous idle current of 23mA :o
This is because the device is silly. Firstly, there is an unnecessary voltage divider for generating a reference voltage. It is too stiff (resistors are too low-valued at 1K + 1K). This provides a reference voltage that is conveyed to high impedance destinations. 18V into 2Kohms means this consumes 9 milliamps!
Secondly, the device contains a bizarre circuit that tries to amplify the GND-GND path, using two op-amps in parallel.
The numbers check out: 9 mA for the voltage divider, plus around 8 mA x 2 IC-s (typical value from datasheet): 25 mA.
Here is how we can fix things.
1. We have two batteries! That is a true dual voltage supply! We can just take the center reference voltage between the two batteries. By doing that we lose the voltage divider entirely, and save 9mA of supply current.
2. We can lose the GND-GND amplifier, and just provide a proper end-to-end galvanic ground connection. We eliminate a pair of op-amps, and thus an entire IC chip.
We're now down to the current draw for a single NE5532.
3. Use a different op-amp. The NE5532 isn't great for driving low impedances like headphones. There are op-amps that are better suited for this, and draw less quiescent current.
> I do not have to pay a tax to apple to listen to my music.
Well, neither do I to be fair. I seriously dislike iTunes but it can take more input than just the store..
Regardless of the official Music player app there are third party ones, some of which are super simple (presenting a http upload on the network and allowing playback of uploaded media) or, in my case, Plex (with a plex pass for local sync)
I think his point was less about the purchasing ecosystem for the music and more about the premium for the hardware/OS/brand/accessories/what-have-you required to play any music at all.
Though, seriously, if I can throw a little bit extra (shockingly not a lot, compared to similar modern Android offerings) at my phone and not have this kind of basic problem and, presumably, other basic problems of a similar nature then there is a tipping point of efficiency that isn’t terribly far away.
I saw similar problems creating music and sounds: having “good” audio hardware means that every sound flaw you have is now obvious and annoying. I had to be much more careful. Frankly, good sound production and programming are both underrated, they are not trivial.
I had to dish out for Audioquests Dragonfly red just so I could enjoy my headphones on pc. The audio quality is really good but I can't really endorse that as the general go-to solution since the price is quite steep. Would not go back, though.
Since you have two channels that source current (L and R) it makes sense to have two parallel op-amps for the GND pin to have the same slew rate & maximum current, as both L and R channels return current through the GND line (I would assume).
I am curious as to why it needs any circuitry on the ground line - would a direct connection not work? (I guess I am assuming that L, R and ground are the only connections made to the headphones.) Do the amplifiers put a DC bias on the L and R outputs that needs to be matched on the ground, and if so, would a capacitor in series with the L and R outputs not be enough to isolate it?
You could just use the middle connection between the two batteries as a ground. I'm not sure why he didn't do it. Perhaps so that the whole thing works longer even if one of the batteries is discharged faster. That would be my guess.
As it stands, 40% of its 23mA current draw is through the 1kΩ x 2 voltage divider... Now I am wondering if a circuit with the between-battery link connected to ground would risk damaging the op amps (or phones) if only one battery was in?
I've had this problem a lot with sensitive in-ear headphones. I guess it is a problem of dynamic range - the same amplifier has to drive insensitive and sensitive headphones, so to avoid being too quiet on the insensitive ones (definitely noticeable) they make them super-loud at the cost of easily audible noise when you're using sensitive headphones on low volume.
I actually bought Google's active USB-C audio dongle to solve this for my Mi A1. It works, but I think USB-C is not a good port for headphones. It isn't robust enough - if you wiggle it around as if it were in your pocket you easily get glitches.
Maybe it doesn't like the metadata in those tracks?
and doesn't go on to discover the answer. If my ripping and encoding routine were doing something funky that causes problems I'd really want to know about it, and it wouldn't require me to debug Android as the author implies.
It's true enough that Android playback probably shouldn't be glitching, but if the track metadata is invalid or pushing the limits of what you can do, whatever he's doing to his tracks is likely to cause problems in places other than Android playback...
With all "high quality" audio matters like this - and compressed music - I genuinely don't understand what the point is. I listen to a lot of different music (Pop, Jazz, Metal, Microtonal stuff etc.) through a lot of different mediums (Good preamps into really expensive amps etc., cheap headphones, overpriced headphones) an I honestly think the point of diminishing returns is at about £30.
For the price that some people spend on their audio gear, you could buy several musical instruments: A far more fulfilling (and sociable) use of too much money IMO.
I have several musical instruments and a bunch of relatively high end audio gear.
The point of dimnishing returns starts at $0, what matters is what kind of quality you want. Every once in a while, I buy some headphones in the <$100 range but I generally turn away in disgust because the sound just isn't good to my ears.
This summer, I had to buy a new phone, I went for a OnePlus 6. I figured I could use another pair of IEMs/earbuds so I bought the kit they offered with the phone. Tried them once, for about ten minutes, and threw them away. Yuck. These are obviously $2 kit of garbage sold at a massive premium..
Yeah I’ve done that. No luck. I’ve used switch cleaner on swabs as well. Think it needs a new port. However I can’t be bothered to take it to Apple store yet.
I think the author of the article just wanted to get out the soldering iron.. as otherwise a few minutes on a search engine would have revealed the existence of the CMOY headphone buffers and a plethora of similar devices for laptops and phones already out there, including ones with their own high quality DACs.. unless there is something I'm missing here?
I think one of the most fascinating relationships that humans have with technology is that we expect everything to just work and that’s the end-goal/advertised dream. However it’s never been that way and for good reason. Between competing technologies and human interests the actually reality of technology is that it’s all broken.
> Shame Maplin closed because now I have to order parts off the internet and WAIT.
Local electronics shops are indispensable when you get a whim to make a curious solution to your particular problem. By the time the parts get to you, you just can't help but think how much easier it would have been to just buy something and just feel dumb.
@13a note this “... (2) every single Apple product.” work but not PC and phones. Consistent with the article trying both Android and Linux ... Consistent with image that Apple is in the A/V world. Just wonder there are exception e.g. would Sony (a multimedia company) would have the same problem.
The tirade against Apple in the middle article is pretty silly. Android OS has a terrible bug that means you can’t listen to your preferred music on your device. iOS does not have this bug. As someone who uses and develops for both OS, this seems like a no-brainer to me.
One possible solution: get Bluetooth headphones instead, such as the equivalent Bluetooth Audio-Technica headphones to what's pictured in the post, the ATH-DSR9BT:
"The ATH-DSR9BT over-ear wireless headphones employ Audio-Technica’s new Pure Digital Drive system, which allows the headphones to operate without a sound-degrading D/A converter that conventional wireless headphones rely upon. Instead, the ATH-DSR9BT utilizes Trigence Semiconductor’s Dnote chipset to receive the digital audio signal from a Bluetooth wireless transmission, process and transfer it to the driver where the digital pulses of the chipset move the voice coil and diaphragm forward and backward to create the sound waves heard by the listener."
Former audio engineer here. Generally this is the result of high noise floor and poor power management on the amplifier side - not powering down when content isn't playing or incorrect power sequencing on the power down of the amp.
I have the exact same headphones, and while I don't have the 'exploding' sound when listening on the phone, I do have the constant hissing and it is driving me insane!
You can't really replace android-media-player-service on your phone with your patched version without replacing the whole OS and losing (among other things) automated security updates and OEM stuff... so I can see how a hardware fix is easier. The system of <phone> -- <headphones> is more modular.
To discharge the capacitor when he turns the thing off in a controlled fashion?
Otherwise the current will slowly leak through the zener diode and the 100kohm resitor and the capacitor will stay charged. So when he turns the thing on the next time it would not do the expected timed battery charge indication he wants.
The headphones themselves sound pretty good. But when playing over bluetooth sometimes compression artefacts are audible. The artefacts are caused by the bluetooth protocol for stereo audio itself, so you're going to hear them even if you play FLAC files.
Also latency is pretty horrible. 200 ms+, enough to be obvious.
I think those are what I have at work. I'm quite sure they do a bunch of stuff of DSP/EQing to make them sound better than they are. When you turn the power off and use them as normal headphones they're mediocre at best.
Pro tip: There are enough PCB shops now that small designs like this can just be done in free EDA software in minutes, 10 boards in your hand with a stencil 9 real days later for less than $50 shipped. The stencil lets you paste the board all at once, you place parts and hit it with a heat gun until everything sets. For audio stuff you get the advantage of keeping everything nice and tight with lower noise. I barely bread/proto board anymore since it is so cheap and easy to get boards made now.
> 10 boards in your hand with a stencil 9 real days later for less than $50 shipped
Or I take my perfboard or solid copper base material and be done with it in one afternoon, without waiting 10 days and spending less than $50 shipped.
> For audio stuff you get the advantage of keeping everything nice and tight with lower noise.
IME it is way easier to do low noise / high bandwidth circuits on base material compared to making it work on a PCB layout. This is because the base material gives you a huge, continuous ground plane, and because you use all three dimensions, instead of just two (+- two component layers). Of course, semi-modern components require steady hands.
I hate to admit I only got into this after the EDA software and PCB fab services and Youtube soldering demos really hit the scene. I am a long time software engineer and it took the current ease of things to surpass my laziness barrier. I wouldn't be doing this at all if I was etching myself. Typical PCB prices are $5 per 10 two layer boards and an extra $15 per stencil. Most the price is shipping so if you order multiple projects at the same time the cost really goes down.
You make a good point about noise. If you are going to have a mixed board you better maintain separate digital and analog ground planes and perhaps even test a couple different layouts.
His pure analog schematics would be well suited to a 2 layer with one side being a ground plane and if any traces did have to be routed on the ground plane side it would be easy enough to ensure they were out of the way of any return paths.
Oh with base material I don't necessarily mean etching yourself. I rarely do that, I mostly use it as-is constructing my circuitry floating above it, suspended by its ground connections. It's somewhat similar to the Manhattan Style. It's also very easy to built custom shielding enclosures this way (all you need is a somewhat powerful soldering iron).
Pro tip: I can make a circuit board for this in my apartment in about an 2 hours, starting with refreshing myself on PCB routing software I haven't touched in a few years, finding the bottle of ferric chloride deep in a storage closet and procuring a tiny piece of copper-clad board from somewhere. If I'm ramped up on things, substantially faster.
Sadly, all the european PCB shops seem to have starting prices of 10€ per piece, it's quite annoying to have to wait for chinese vendors but for prototyping 10€ the piece is way to expensive and I can't handle chemicals either.
My latest hope is that Laser4DIY is gonna make progress, being able to laser the PCB entirely would make life so much easier.
China is the 9 day shipping component. I use JLCPCB most and SeedStudio because depending on the features each has their own pricing benefit. If you are comfortable with a paste syringe and the component count is small you can skip the stencil and order multiple projects at the same time to seriously save on shipping. Youtube has great videos on stencil pasting and reflow soldering with a heat gun. If you aren't familiar with EDA software you can start at Fritzing or EasyEda and move on to Kicad. Altium is the standard at big businesses.
Here is an example of an MCU based tilt sensor I made earlier this year. I have about 12 hours total into it including inception/design/layout/soldering. It would have taken me 12 hours to breadboard it with components I couldn't use in production. I do this a lot so my process is rather streamlined. I made about 25 boards this year, mostly small test circuits. https://imgur.com/a/XJxp0tO
Go with OSH park instead of China. Their support is gnebuinky amazing, and the service in general. Is 5 days for a 2 layer board with 5 dollars per square inch of design for 3 boards, and free shipping.
The company is active on Twitter and its founder is awesome based on interviews he gives with various electronic podcasts.
I’ve been using OSH park for the last few projects. Way easier to get started (they take Eagle files and supply design rule files), quick shipping, amazing support.
I used to use BatchPCB and LOVED the service. When Sparkfun shut it down I couldn't find any decent alternatives and pretty much just quit making boards.
It looks like Osh Park has a pretty decent offering these days, but I'm curious who you're using with 9 day turnaround time? That's amazing!
I ordered some from jlpcb on a Monday and by Friday they were here. Express shipping brought it to $19 shipped for 10 boards. I’m sure most places like that are similar in lead times.
In the U.S., OSH Park is 5 day turn. Order on Monday, ships Friday.
(This is using their Swift service on two layer boards, which is surprisingly only $10/sqin per set of 3, compared against the usual $5. Plus they're made in the U.S. so it's local shipping.).
(Note: I haven't used Osh Park in awhile, but they were great when I did use them and I've seen people still recommend them recently.)
EDIT: Though it looks like Osh Park doesn't do stencils.
Were would that go? The author doesn't seem too keen on actually soldering on the inside of the devices, and they all give analogue out. Maybe you meant an amp?
A USB DAC connected to the old-laptop maybe? I have one on a Mini-PC that's the player for my music library - totally moved the digital-to-analogue conversion out of the noisy PC, and results in really clean audio. Obviously you get what you pay for - a £20 DAC wont do a very good job, but a £100 one will be good enough for most people.
I'm wholly convinced that the computing world is, in general, regressing. Audio has been a huge loser in this fight. Today, many modern phones don't ship with 3.5mm jacks. If you want lossless audio, you literally can't find it, even though there's zero reason companies like Spotify couldn't stream it when available (even if it costs extra) (Spotify literally asks artists to upload the masters when they publish, they have that data and then throw it away). Many artists don't even publish physical CDs anymore, so its a game of luck if they have a website where I can buy the FLACs/ALACs. And if you want the actual files to, you know, live your life in a completely legal way, those are gone.
Its more than just audio. Watching movies sucks; you now pay full price to effectively indefinitely rent movies, and have them taken away at any time. eBooks are the same and always have been; the world's oldest technology has been coopted by companies like Amazon to increase revenue, and there's practically zero competition. Applications suck; we're puking web and electron everywhere, eating up every conceivable megabyte of memory available literally only because developers are lazy, and now you're consistently asked to pay a monthly fee to access this functionality literally only because companies are lazy. Modern operating systems suck; restricting filesystem access, exposing proprietary application APIs which fundamentally make applications unportable and thus contributing to the rise of Electron/RN.
Somehow we took systems and workflows that were amazing throughout the 90s-00s and, in the course of a decade, completely ruined them.