Good night. Once upon a time in 1983, my grandparents bought a mobile home and put it out on rural property. They paid $300 for the water company to install a water meter and about $1500 for a septic tank install.
Now I'm trying to do the same thing (and on the same property). The water meter is $5,000 (cash only in full), and the septic tank is $15,000. If I was also required to have solar, I'd really be screwed...
Starting to think that working in Tech isn't even worth it anymore. We don't have big government lobbyists making rules to make software more complicated 'just because' every year and thus driving cost up (and making me more money). If my math is right, I'm pretty sure per my sad story above, I'm estimating that the septic people I am trying to work with are pulling in $3k-$5k+ (profit) a week in septic installs (its only a husband and wife outfit and in an area where rent is less than $1k a month....)
That means the real cost of installing a septic tank increased 4x.
Although, we don't know how similar the two projects are. Maybe one has more rock to dig through, the tank is farther away, or new tanks are better than 1980s tanks in some ways. There are many possible answers other than the cost of installing a septic tank outpaced inflation.
>Although, we don't know how similar the two projects are
They are similar in that the requirements for tank size are the same and the dirt is the same (same property). What is different is caused by the regulations. The style put in in 1983 is a traditional 1000 gallon tank going out to a leach field with about 100ft of perforated pipe (known as a 'traditional' system').
But traditional systems are now banned for this soil type (clay content > 50%, even though they still work fine if designed right). The current price for a traditional system is now about $5500. But since it is banned, I have to install a 'Evapotranspirative (ET) system' which involves digging two 20'x80' pits and filling it with a special 'sandy loam' soil (which is not native to the area and has to be trucked in) and then running the perforated pipe in that. It's two to three times the work and an extra $2k - $4k in soil costs.
Environmental regulations are more strict today too -- one corner of my grandparents (large) yard was perpetually swampy and us kids were warned to stay away -- turned out that it was runoff from an uphill neighbor's septic leach field, and it had been like that for decades.
I don't think such a thing would be possible with today's regulations. I'm not even sure it was acceptable 30 years ago, but my grandparents never complained about it and were on good terms with the neighbors.
If I was also required to have solar, I'd really be screwed...
So, what do you do for electricity then? Most people developing rural property near where I live love solar, they can't get enough, as it lets them go off-grid and avoid paying electricity hookup fees.
I'm not that rural. The price for the electric run is $350 for new poles and the service is about $0.10 p/kwh. I'm fine with adding solar. I simply don't have the money right now. And I am not getting a mortgage as the 'just add it to your mortgage' attitude is what has lead to so many (non protested) price hikes in the first place.
So adding 'just another' $10k to the price means I get to wait so many extra months to save money before I can even build.
I don't know how standard a mortgage was 30+ years ago. I do know the interest rates were higher and they weren't handed out like candy as they are now. My grandfather bought a brand new house in 1972 for $12,000, paid cash. And my parents built their first house in 1990 and paid cash as well. They moved and built several other houses all with cash as well. Is it too much to ask that I be able to pay cash for a not so great but brand new mobile home?
they probably have a lot of overhead for the following things:
office rental,
increasing cost of septic tank hardware itself
increased environmental regulations
increase cost of permitting (money and time) with local government
impact fees maybe
increased insurance costs
people are making money on this, I just doubt its your tank installer
No as I am comparing apples to apples here as I am 1099, paid by the hour, and they are a sole proprietor. Yes they have different expenses than I do, I buy a $300 laptop off of ebay every couple of years whereas they probably buy a $30,000 backhoe every couple of decades. But still... a little blue collar work with more and more regulations making it take longer and be more profitable is starting to sound lucrative.
Is it regulations or other rent seeking that have caused inflation? Do you think the cost of living increases in your he past decade are due to regulations?
Most places will want one water meter per house and that was the case with me as I was adding a new house to existing property. But since they wanted $5k up front, I ended up tying into the meter that was already there for a relative's house, which is against their rules but oh well.
A well is for fresh water while septic is for... well not so fresh water. I have considered doing the whole job myself (I mean how hard can digging with a backhoe be?!) and violating all the regulations that make is so expensive, but whether you dump your RV's holding tank into a protected water zone or install an illegal septic system, you are still dealing with the environmental health department and they won't be pleased if/when they find out.
Your septic systems needs to be professionally designed, but you can hire that separate from the install.
In fact I would advise you to hire the design first separately and only after you have a design get bids on the install. My grandpa got bids from several design/installers, and only after the contract was signed did he discover that all the design/install bids in the county were for a more expensive mound system. My uncle next door learned and hired the design first and then tracked down the one installed in the county that would do the cheaper system that was designed.
That is what I am trying to do. The designer doesn't seem to be helping much with getting the price down though. He is basically just following the state requirements exactly and not putting any thought into any exemptions that might lower the price.
No shit. Digging a well, in addition to septic. 15k is fucking stupid for a septic tank but it's California. 5k for a well would be ridiculous as well.
So digging a well, would save over 5k for water, plus the monthly charges. I guess I should have specified. I thought saying "Dig a well" was relatively self explanatory in the fact it would likely save money not only in the short run but over the long run as well.
I just realized what you meant by "dig a well", I forgot what I had written in my own comment... Since this is family property that already had a house on it (I'm putting mine behind that one), I just tied into the existing meter. Thought I had saved my self $5k and was going to build a nice porch with that, but now I guess I get to spend it on septic...
Now I'm trying to do the same thing (and on the same property). The water meter is $5,000 (cash only in full), and the septic tank is $15,000. If I was also required to have solar, I'd really be screwed...
Starting to think that working in Tech isn't even worth it anymore. We don't have big government lobbyists making rules to make software more complicated 'just because' every year and thus driving cost up (and making me more money). If my math is right, I'm pretty sure per my sad story above, I'm estimating that the septic people I am trying to work with are pulling in $3k-$5k+ (profit) a week in septic installs (its only a husband and wife outfit and in an area where rent is less than $1k a month....)