"The only other thing I'd add, from my point of view, is my games (and graphics) programming skills and training have always seemed completely separate to traditional software development"

What kind of programming role do you think you'd have in a team?

I ask because, as a generalist programmer, I think that I could write you any kind of program, including a game engine, at a professional level. I'm just wondering what the difference between my training and yours is.

What I said below:

> [I had] a lack of formal education in software development. I've had quite a lot of programming lectures but everything beyond C++ inheritance has been off my own back.

I think the more I've learnt, the more I'm coming to a similar opinion that I could probably write any kind of program I got asked to.

In film effects, I'd probably end up working within an R&D or pipeline department. In games, maybe working on the engine? In true though, I've a very poor knowledge or the structure of a software or games team (though I know most of the inner workings of film effects).

I suppose I label myself as games / graphics programmer because I've always been making/learning about games or effects...

I'm currently working on a computer science & 'games technology' double major, so maybe I can add a little to your question as well.

Although it will inevitably vary from uni to uni, games tech at my uni is a BSc. with similar core units to CS, with added graphics programming/games programming units. In the CS units we're dealing with algorithms, data structures, databases, systems design and so on, while the games tech major is dealing with graphics APIs (OpenGL), Euclidean geometry and game physics, and concentrating totally around C++.

We also create graphics demos and games for end of semester individual and group assignments, which is really the thing that would help people looking to get into the games industry. Games tech at my uni is really just an advanced coding course.

Personally, I'm only doing it for the coding. I doubt I will look for a job in the games industry because it's unlikely I'd land a job at a company I'd want to work for straight out of uni (I'm picky). Besides, I'd rather work at Google, although working at Valve or id would be nice :)

Ah yeah, that's an issue I've been doing a lot of thinking about--- I'm finishing up a games-and-AI PhD and, gods willing, going to start soonish as a prof in a cs-and-games program. They vary a lot from school to school, and I think we're still working out how they should be taught, and where they should go relative to other departments. Some are basically CS programs with a bit of an applied twist, some are basically media-studies programs, some are very art-heavy, some are more like a vocational degree, and many are some mixture of those.

Some of the variation is based on institutional politics, I think (probably more than it should be), but some is a fundamental disagreement over what games "really" are. The two endpoints of the spectrum of views are: 1) games are a specific type of software, like search engines or word processors or operating systems; or 2) games are a specific type of media, like films or cartoons or novels.

Mind sharing where you went? I have some first-hand knowledge of Georgia Tech's and UC Santa Cruz's programs, and am curious how others compare.

I'm at Bournemouth Uni in the UK. I think it works quite well here for most of the courses (which more of a focus on film effect and game content) to be under the media umbrella, but for outliers like me it feels a bit odd receiving a Bachelor of Art for writing a (simple) games engine. Now I'm finishing an MSc which has a focus on programming for film effects.

One of the downsides I've felt from my experience is a lack of formal education in software development. I've had quite a lot of programming lectures but everything beyond C++ inheritance has been off my own back.

Another factor with Bournemouth is there is a strong (and positive) influence from the London film effects houses. There is almost an assumption that on finishing, you go work for someone in films which (going back to the original point) just adds to the separation from traditional CS.