Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Israel's water ninja (businessweek.com)
24 points by roye on Jan 9, 2015 | hide | past | favorite | 25 comments



While I applaud Israel's great water conservation and infrastructure efforts, it's important not to forget the dirt under the rug...

Here's a great visual on the water disparity between Palestinians and Israelis: http://visualizingpalestine.org/system/visual/en/VP-WB-Water...

And another on the discriminatory water supply: http://www.btselem.org/water/discrimination_in_water_supply


Two interesting points to consider: The two sources you listed have a nearly 100% difference in the amount of water they claim Israelis are using (300 liters a day vs 183 liters per day). Both are high compared to Wikipedia's usage figures, at 137 liters a day.

Second, when looking up information about this, it seems that about 150 million m^3/year of of in total is pumped from the aquifer, while it seems that overall, Israel gets (...very vaguely) about 2 billion m^3/year from other sources (desalinization plants, for example, were aiming to supply 500 million m^3/year by 2015, no idea what the current status is). In short, it seems the West Bank is going to need to import water from somewhere to match Israel's consumption. (Also, information on this seems /very/ sparse and disjoint. I'd appreciate finding a good, well cited source...)

Also, note that there are multiple aquifers that seem to be referred to as 'mountain aquifers': There's the larger, Western mountain aquifer, which extends from a few miles from the coast, through Israeli territory, well into the West Bank. In terms of area, it's hard to say since different maps seem to draw it at different sizes, but at a guess it seems that it's split 50/50 between the West Bank/Israel, and according to one map, the Israeli side is cheaper/easier to extract. And there's the much smaller Eastern Mountain Aquifer, which is mostly contained within the West Bank, although it seems to have some corners peeking out in the north and south near the Jordan river.


From what i can see by following the cited sources in the graphic (and then following the sources they cited) it's seems that the graphic is a big flocking hyperbole. They compare the average house hold water usages in Israel to the average P/P usage in the PA. They also make the graphic look like the vast majority of the water is coming from the western aquifer which currently is less than 300 MCM per year. The abstraction rates that they specified also ignore the actual destination of the water, as they ignore both the fact that Israel pumps water directly to the water system run by the PA and that 60-70% of the Arab residents of the west bank are connected to the Israeli water system and not the one which is run by the PA.

While Israel does control nearly 100% of the access to that aquifer and uses it as a political bargaining chip for various agreements and negotiations with the Palestinians it doesn't seem to employ a policy that prevents individuals from access to water.

P.S. I also find it odd that they've decided to use the WHO recommended numbers instead of quoting the ones from the UN water report which although isn't a fluff peace for Israel does states that a large disparity between the water usage on both sides is oddly due lower usage of showers and lavatories especially in the more nomadic parts of the west bank than is due to lack of access to water. Based on the UN water report the average water usage per person in the Ramallah is 141 liters, so in a city where they got multiple showers and toilets per apartment and houses with pools the water usage seems to be very simmilar to Tel Aviv...


Is the water body inside their owned(no matter how) territory?

Because if so. Well they don't have to actually share it do they?

Just saying it, I have no sides... No flamewars, ok?


The water body is in Palestine, from the graphic, specifically the city of Ramallah.

I don't want a flamewar either :) just trying to trying to be the grain of salt.


It's in Shomron, Israel.


For those who don't know what this means:

"In modern times, the territory is generally and almost universally known as part of the West Bank."

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shomron)


As an un-involved observer, what I see is that PA/Hamas would rather focus on fighting Israel than making life better for their residents. They would much rather receive un-accountable funds to line their own pockets than do anything constructive.

Israel (or rather individual Israelis), on the other hand, seems to have a significant focus on improving quality of life for themselves.


I heard Hamas tunnels in Gaza cost 30-90 million dollar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_t...). That could have been a very good start for a desalination plant or infrastructure repair isn't it?


I love reading about "big data" projects that aren't about marketing and advertising. This is particularly interesting to me with my latent environmental and overpopulation concerns. Fantastic article, good find.


That's what struck me about it as well. I think things like this along with body/health tracking will be the true IoT killer apps


Very interesting, I wonder what kinds of sensors and analysis are behind the software. It's accuracy rate, detection speed and other things like that.

Would be really nice to work on this kind of stuff.


I always wonder, hearing these stories, if I should feel bad that my proximity to a natural reservoir of fresh water means that our muni water system is one of the most wasteful in the world. These people are performing Liet-Keynes levels of water conservation.


In some places it's not really possible to "waste" water. Any water use just heads downstream for the next person.


What the hell is going on in that graph? The West Bank is "High-income"? Yemen is "High-income"?


They should spare a drop for Gaza


Israel provides water, power fuel, medicine, food, etc. to Gaza even during conflicts.


Well from what I see Palestineans are under severe water shortages, whereas Israeli citizens all get plumbing,p to their home with no restrictions.


Is that supposed to be a bonus point for Israel? So does the US Prison system to inmates. When you control all borders, airspace and sea access what other option is there?


@gizmo686 Does taking water from the Palestinians and then returning a portion back to them count?

I linked to some articles/info above for more info.


Zaheer HN prevents you from directly replying to comments after a certain nesting level to prevent flamewars, but if you click on the "link" link for a post you should be able to normally reply to it, regardless of the depth.


Did not know that, thanks :)


The complaint was that Israel does not share water with Gaza. In that context, Israel providing water certainty counts.


It does not seem to be a bonus point to be comparing the palestinians to the (average) felony level of the us prison population. Or is it your intention to suggest that both pose the same level of danger to their neighbors?


Every single article on Israel.......

But actually the PA should use his software. They waste FAR more water to leaks than Israel.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: