I'm not super fond of the assumption that someone is bipolar simply because of going in and out of frenetic periods of activity, that isn't really what bipolar disorder is. I have bipolar (II), so here's some things:
Since I only have bipolar II, I have never experienced "true" mania, but I can tell you that even hypo-mania is not what is described. Hypomania is more like having your throttle stuck on wide open and nothing you can do will make it stop. You just keep moving a mile a minute, even if you're exhausted. The thoughts just keep moving, faster and faster. You become impulsive. Have you ever bought 20 plants because you were sure it was a great idea then killed them when you became depressed? Bought $400 worth of sushi because, shit, it's a Tuesday? Those are some things that happen, out of the blue, and the thing that's maddening is that anything you do while you're manic is going to get fucked up as soon as you become depressed.
And the depression isn't just melancholia, at least usually, it's something far deeper, the _inability_ to do things. You can will yourself to have motivation to do something for hours, only to find yourself hardly able to do it. It isn't even really a sadness, or disillusionment, it's a fog, it feels like you can't even think straight.
As a programmer, it's a special hell, because it feels like my brain doesn't even work right. And while Lisp is great, it is no salve to that.
So no, this isn't the Bipolar Lisp Programmer, this is the Stereotypical Smart Bored Youth Programmer.
Thank you for this. I think you hit the nail on the head.
I was diagnosed with bipolar type 2 about a week ago. It's a very odd thing to experience a life of being "different" without explanation, then suddenly a thousand pieces come together. I feel refreshed and vindicated now that I know the reason.
When I'm in my highs, I feel like I can accomplish anything, and sometimes actually do. But like you say, that can come to a crash in an instant. Reading? Forget about it... unless you're in your high. Studying? Same. Relationships? You bet.
As sad as that it sounds, there's definitely some good to it. I feel that my sense of "self" is exaggerated.. in a hugely positive way that doesn't affect my ego in a negative way. Someone once explained to me that those with bipolar are able to achieve "self mastery" easier - if they're able to overcome the negatives of the disorder.
If I were to live another life and choose whether to have it or not, I'm fairly positive I would want to have it. Then again, I'm in a great mood right now. Go figure. ;)
Heh heh, perhaps they might read it as such. I'm sure that, like the article this thread is about, the author intended to make a point about a group of people by describing them in terms of the popular notion of the disorder, and didn't intend to seriously talk about people who really have the disorder. (In this case, I imagine the "teenagers" part of the description, which is directed at people who are most likely professional developers in their 20s, is meant at least as pejoratively as the "attention deficit" part.)
I find your description of bipolar to be interesting, so thanks.
It wasn't clear to me that the author actually meant "bipolar" in the medical sense. I think he meant something else, and it was just a convenient, but perhaps confusing, term.
No worries, and I do get that, and I'm not furious about it or anything like that. I will say though, it's frustrating when you suffer from this condition to have it characterized in this way, as an adjective, in the same way I imagine it's frustrating for people that actually have Asperger's to hear that thrown around as much as it is now.
That said, I can deal with my frustration, what actually worries me is that a lot of people that don't have bipolar disorder will call themselves bipolar, and make people that actually do have these problems think it's normal and that they don't need treatment or help. It's hard enough to reach out for treatment without someone telling you or implying that "oh yeah, most people have that who are smart, you just need to figure out how to be less angsty!" If that makes sense.
Tl;dr: Generalizing in this way hurts people that need help, I was once one of those people, so I just want to educate people to try to avoid doing this.
Hello (sister|brother)!
I have Bipolar (I). It's not "only" bipolar I or II, they're both terrible (so I'm told, I've never been "not bipolar"). You've really hit the nail on the head. I could waste bytes with more words of agreement, but you've covered it pretty well.
Manic-Depression is one of those turns of phrase that really illustrates how clumsy human communications are, given our single frame of reference.
Same here. The most common definition I've seen is bipolar I requires one manic period requiring hospitalization. For me the II form means a whole lot of shitty decisions.
I wish people would stop throwing mental health diagnoses around. The article is mostly intelligent, but it bears no resemblance to any disorder. It's just a standard behaviour of the smart and bored.
Me, I was like that till 16, when I met a teacher with such enthusiasm for his subject matter it carried me all the way through university. (Modulo some hiccups.) He was enthusiastic about maths, so I ended up becoming a mathematician. I imagine if he'd been a chemist I'd have done that.
It failed to deliver a usable Operating System within a budget. It failed to deliver AI with even the intelligence of a donkey. It failed to deliver an efficient IDE. It failed to deliver a serialization format for the industry to use. It failed to deliver a fast interpreter for high performance applications like Games. It failed to deliver a usable framework for Web Applications for 20 years. It failed to deliver package management for libraries.
If the History of Lisp is to teach us anything is that the unity of data and code is not a prerequisite to write useful applications.
It's not bipolar, I understand those are the symptoms of ADD. Bored with everything, very high threshold for enjoyment or interest, but getting quickly bored with that same thing.
This is also not ADD. ADD is, among a few other things, a deficiency to guide ones concentration. Hyperfocus and repeated Hyperfocus for things you like is actually a sign of ADD. ADD people can very well do things they enjoy repeatedly and often.
It's also not something to fret over. A lot of those monikers, like ADD are thrown around with a cavalier, throw-caution-to-the-wind attitude. And I mean by doctors.
Some of so-called "diseases" are actually natural responses to messed up situations (like a boring to hell school environment for a smart kid), and mostly stick as medical fads (tons of them in previous decades that are dead and burried now) and because subscribing drugs pays well.
You are aware that ADD is, at the current state of science, considered a difference within the brain chemistry and no "reaction" to something? You don't "develop" ADD. One requirement to diagnose ADD in high age is to prove that it was there from the beginning on, in your very first years.
And that cavalier attitude that you describe is actually very harmful to people that _do_ have ADD, especially those that continue to have it after a certain age.
Also note that "disease" is the wrong word for this. It is a condition: you have it, it won't go away, but you can work on it and build your life around it. It's not that you necessarily _suffer_. People speaking with half-knowledge about it are a popular nuisance, though.
Also, describing those things as fads is _also_ very insulting to those that do struggle with these issues.
It's not a deficiency in guiding concentration. It's the complete lack of WANTING to concentrate on boring things. That's why people with ADD can easily concentrate on a video game for hours. Clearly they can guide their concentration on things they enjoy!
* Delayed stop and transition of concentration from one task to another
I recommend reading some of the linked papers.
Be aware that there are multiple subgroups of ADD with quite a number of possible behaviors each. Quick boredom is only a sign for some of the patients, mostly those with Hyperactivity. You can have ADD without Hyperactivity.
I liked this article quite a bit, as I love to program in Lisp (well, Scheme) and I'm a clinician with a lot of experience treating bipolar disorder. That is, the real bipolar, which isn't what the author is talking about.
The kind of behavior referred to in the article is certainly common. I've know many people who show this "crash and burn" pattern. Easily bored, distractible, procrastinators to the end. Black and white, all or none is their theme. Very good or lousy at any given task, usually performance varies randomly, that being a source of consternation for all involved. The unpredictability and inconsistency are vexing and corrosive in nearly all domains of life.
They may be subject to moodiness, reacting strongly to criticism, and may blow up disproportionately. Such individuals may become truly depressed but that's not usual. Rather they suffer profound discouragement when things get hard and overwhelming, a state that's almost inevitable, if transient, like thunderstorms propagating flash floods of high drama and rapid dissipation.
It's a condition that often responds to treatment, the right kinds of counseling, in some cases carefully applied medication therapies are useful. The college-age students who are flailing around struggling to gain traction often respond the best to proper guidance and approaches.
The professor observes correctly the tremendous suffering and waste of talent that occurs. What's important is to see it for what it is and having seen it doing the things that can heal it, in the end giving no cause for pessimism at all.
He really lost me at "lesser languages like C"
Lisp is a fantastic language and I enjoy it. But to say that C is somehow lesser is dismissing the very thing required to implement lisp itself. And that's the sort of thing which causes people to dismiss lisp evangelists as fundamentalists.
Since I only have bipolar II, I have never experienced "true" mania, but I can tell you that even hypo-mania is not what is described. Hypomania is more like having your throttle stuck on wide open and nothing you can do will make it stop. You just keep moving a mile a minute, even if you're exhausted. The thoughts just keep moving, faster and faster. You become impulsive. Have you ever bought 20 plants because you were sure it was a great idea then killed them when you became depressed? Bought $400 worth of sushi because, shit, it's a Tuesday? Those are some things that happen, out of the blue, and the thing that's maddening is that anything you do while you're manic is going to get fucked up as soon as you become depressed.
And the depression isn't just melancholia, at least usually, it's something far deeper, the _inability_ to do things. You can will yourself to have motivation to do something for hours, only to find yourself hardly able to do it. It isn't even really a sadness, or disillusionment, it's a fog, it feels like you can't even think straight.
As a programmer, it's a special hell, because it feels like my brain doesn't even work right. And while Lisp is great, it is no salve to that.
So no, this isn't the Bipolar Lisp Programmer, this is the Stereotypical Smart Bored Youth Programmer.