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A ‘Rebel’ Without a Ph.D (simonsfoundation.org)
170 points by digital55 on March 26, 2014 | hide | past | favorite | 66 comments



Really good read. Would love to hear some stories from other HN folks who have "escaped" from or "rebelled" against academia but are still pursuing academic interests...

Me personally, after deciding not to pursue a Masters degree in Bioinformatics, I realized that working in IT is also a (more lucrative but just as empty) sham. I've been focusing my time for the past year on learning new computational modeling on side projects, such as 1) contributing to QuantLib, open-source finance library with new option volatility surface curves, 2) parsing through PLoS Computational Biology papers and feeding any supplementary data from authors/research group to visualizations/statistics libraries and open lab notebooks wiki's; and verifying whether their assertions are truly statistically significant.

As the author noted, it is very hard to do the real research in academia unless you have a union-card of PhD. However working in industry even R&D, unless you have a PhD or are very lucky gets you most of the suckered into "technician" and mundane CRUD work. Not to mention the financial realities of having a family and setting down later in life vs. the idealistic dream of monastic academic research when you're younger.

What have you guys done to balance the two? Do you work on side projects while collecting the paycheck? Or do you work in R&D division or a research institute that allows you to take on novel research work? Or do you finance your research on your own or solicit grants/funding from other people (like David E. Shaw, Kickstarter or a "Hackerspace" that survives on membership fees)?


I quit a PhD program in systems biology a few years back to become a programmer and now I contribute to an open source science project in systems biology in my free time. I feel like I am contributing far more to science now than I ever did as a grad student. After spending a couple of years in industry, I (undeservedly) feel like an engineering god working on this project. It's not that scientists aren't smart, it's that they haven't worked in a place where good engineering practices are vital, rather they have worked in the academic world where you typically hack together a bunch code that barely works, write a paper, and call it a day. Today science is at a point where many, if not most questions are answered with computers, and IMO there is a huge need for quality engineers to produce that software.


The challenge is finding a fair way to compensate talented engineers. Many might do it for free under a "code for science" campaign. But that would require a lot of scientist to realize and then admit how deeply incompetent they are at programing.


I know very few scientists who are terribly pleased with their coding skills, and many who actively admit they're not great coders.

The problem is you can't rely on a "code for science" campaign. A research study isn't something done in a weekend Hackathon, though they are occasionally helpful. What happens if, 2 years into your 5 year study, your helpful volunteers, leaving you with an incomplete code base beyond your skills to maintain or extend?


I know of two ways currently being tried to address this.

The first is to have scientists break their problems down into chunks that can be performed by volunteers but which aren't completely beyond the ability of the scientist to manage the resultant code. This is doable for much of physics and computational biology, less so where a scientist isn't a programmer themselves. We're taking this approach with http://solvers.io.

The second is to have the scientists mentored by programmers to help them become better at it. This is the approach being taken by http://interdisciplinaryprogramming.com.

In both cases, any particular volunteer dropping out is probably not a massive blow. If a project is going to rely on a particular programmer long-term, they probably need to find the funding to pay them.


I would love to see smaller, more puzzle like challenges on solvers.io .. I love the idea but a lot of the projects are kind of big!


I'm really interested in solvers.io, and I've been trying to come up with things like that. Small, bite-sized chunks that take just a bit of time, and then everyone can go their separate way.


Thanks! This is our number one priority at the moment. We'll have a new small-task focused design up in a few weeks and are working with project owners to break things down.


There are a reasonable number of people in my area (mostly, game AI and AI-for-game-design) who either left academia, or never were in it, but still attend conferences and publish papers. Those outside academia typically publish a bit less, mostly due to either having day jobs or pretty booked consulting careers (and in a few cases, due to secretive employers restricting what they can publish). But many are still actively involved in conferences like http://www.aiide.org.

It doesn't seem mostly billed as "escaping" or "rebelling", though. Just, some people find different careers more attractive. Some people would hate some of the bullshit involved in academia but find consulting attractive; other people would hate some of the bullshit involved in consulting but find an academic job attractive; and other people do something else entirely, like working at Electronic Arts. People end choosing a pretty wide range of different careers, all with tradeoffs. Some people choose more than one! If anything, kind of amusingly, the narrative is a bit more frequent in the other direction: people who had a senior job at a big game company and "rebelled" or "escaped" by quitting the six-figure job and going back to school for a PhD. For example, the AI lead on No One Lives Forever 2 and F.E.A.R. left the AAA game industry to get a PhD... and now is leaving academia again to go back into the game industry, but as an indie (http://web.media.mit.edu/~jorkin/).

I get the impression a lot of applied CS has those kinds of dynamics. If you go to a systems, graphics, data-mining, etc. conference, there's a good mix of big-company, freelance, and academic people, and a number of people who've worn more than one of those hats.


I have only a Bachelors (math) and work at a non profit research institute as a software engineer. I've contributed to a number of publications and first authored one, and had my name on some grant applications so I guess I count as an academic.

I think the bio field is desperate for people with software skills and it is actually pretty easy to get into if your willing to take a pay cut vs industry software rates.

On the other hand, I was getting recruited by a machine learning company based on my open source contributions etc but interest dropped off when they found out I didn't have a PHD (and wouldn't move to the bay area).

I think the reality of bio research is that it does involve a ton of mundane work and that even when working on a novel project we spend a lot of time doing server admin, cleaning, processing, reformatting data, building databases and data portals etc. Every time the scale of a study increases one of our tools breaks and getting things to scale often involves more hacking then pure research.

Occasionally one of us engineers come up with a novel approach worth publishing and more often we make a contribution to a larger study that is novel biology even if it isn't novel analytically.

I would contrast this with, say, machine learning researchers chasing percentage points on well established data sets like MINST or even doing kaggle competitions. Our data tends to be less settled more noisy, heterogenous, missing etc and have questions that are less well posed (eg often one disease is actually many with similar symptoms) so there is a lot more mundane wading through things.

I'm not sure what my prospects are if/when I decide to change jobs but I'm hoping that my open source contributions and papers would convince an employer that I know what I'm doing enough to continue working on novel problems.


1. The field can be desperate for software engineers. OR 2. You need to take a pay cut if you want to join this field.

If it's both, someone at the top is very out of touch.


You have to realize that most post-doc's, so people who are in their 30's-40's and have the years of tenure and education as a doctor with residency make like $45-50K; that is, if they're lucky to get it.

So for a code monkey to come in and tap away on his stupid keyboard to make like $75K is a travesty as far as the research academia is concerned.

But in research, you're better than the sell-out's trying to make people click on ads and shit though. So part of your paycheck every week is padded with tokens of self-righteousness and moral superiority that you can redeem in times of needed philosophical consolations.


Or the academics could just buck up and unionize like all other exploited workers, including, frankly, academics in many countries.


Post docs in UC schools are unionized (as well as elsewhere).


It is both. And the people at the top are various grant funding agencies that often move at the pace of government and are used to the post doc pay scale. Things are changing but the salaries places like google and amazon pay are just hard to match on a government grant.


Academia, because it is fueled by grants, cannot necessarily adjust pay to compete with the demand from other sectors, no matter how much they might like to.

Beyond that, good programmers are stupidly helpful, but not mission-critical.


I would work on research projects for free, if the projects were interesting and/or I got some reputation out of it.


If you're interested in doing research without an affiliation, I'm building up a network of collaborators for open research. Have a ton of interesting problems around bioinformatics and computational biology. I've put a couple on http://solvers.io, but if you just want to chat drop me an email.


Does no affiliation generally translate to no funding? In my experience in physics, the lack of affiliation per se isn't a terrible barrier. All papers since 1992 are available for free on the arXiv, and journal editors actually make a pretty honest effort to evaluate unaffiliated authors based on the merits of the manuscript. (Of course, most unaffiliated submissions are of low quality, so it's hard to avoid a bit of prior probability slanted against them.)

Funding seems pretty impossible if you're unaffiliated, though.


> Funding seems pretty impossible if you're unaffiliated, though.

In CS (I am unfamiliar with other areas), I'll agree that the really big grants usually go to academic institutions, big defense contractors, or consortia of the two. But there are pretty decent funds set aside specifically for small businesses, using funds that Congress has earmarked to the National Science Foundation exclusively for such a purpose. Last I saw, the success rate for applying for such funds (in terms of % of applications successfully funded) was actually higher than for academic applicants, though the total awards are smaller.

You do have to convince a funder that your independent research organization is serious and capable of delivering research. But if you can do so, in the U.S. there are two NSF programs specifically targeting research money towards small businesses. The first is the Small Business Technology Transfer Program (STTP). This requires two organizations, with a small business and an academic institution submitting a joint proposal. They propose a plan for taking current academic results and turning them into viable products that will support a small business. The idea is to give money that will enable the academia-industry barrier to be crossed, with one partner on each side who explains why they are a good team for making the crossing happen. The second is the Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) program, which small business can apply solo to. This funds activities that take place wholly in the private sector, but present a credible research plan that the evaluators consider to have a high likelihood of producing scientifically interesting results.


Funding is harder if you're unaffiliated - unless you collaborate with people in academia. There are more ways to do this opening up though, crowd funding (http://experiment.com) for example.


How common is it for experiment.com funding to include labor? Most of the projects I checked look like they're just covering equipment and travel, and that's not going to be enough to work on the project full time.


I'm trying to escape academic neuroEconomcs right now. I was shocked by how much nepotism and how little merit there is in academic science. I'm pursuing a research agenda about 'learning' on my own. I built an free API that uses neuroscientific learning models to help developers make apps sticky. I expect that the optimization algorithms I'm using will lead to new findings in how brains learn.


Interesting, could you point out the open lab notebook wiki's? I'm looking to do that with IPython notebooks.

In Boston, we're looking to revitalize DIY bio at BOSSlab http://bosslab.org/


I remember that a significant part — up to a fifth, I would say — of the researchers and lecturers whose seminars I followed in the late 80s in France, either did not hold a doctorate or used to publish a big thing only once in a while but were nonetheless respected by their peers for their knowledge and commitment to science, and enjoyed secure academic positions. Nowadays, surviving in the academy without a PhD (or even, in countries like Germany, without the higher "habilitation") and without abiding to the "publish or perish" rule has become increasingly unrealistic.

But it still happens, albeit at the margins. I have been working myself as a scientist in the academy for the last twenty years and even held assistant professorship positions in prestigious universities in Germany for almost ten years without a PhD and without much publications. In my case, that was most of the time due to a combination of factors: 1) the need for an outsider in the lab (particularly to avoid conflicts over scarce tenured professorship positions) 2) being able to teach and research topics for which more than one person would have been needed otherwise 3) being (a little) known in the field, and known as eccentric but proficient at the job.

Funding is certainly an issue. You do need an academic affiliation (at least a formal one) to apply for grants. But I do not feel I have been less successful in securing funding from European and German research funds than colleagues with PhDs and habilitations and lots of publications. As soon as past projects were successfully completed, it has never been a big issue. The real problem is that in my field only fashionable and pointless projects are being funded lately.

As a consequence, I have come to carry my research almost completely independently. Coding and data analysis for private corporations and casual teaching at the university pay the bills. From time to time, I still rely on academic grants to fund field research. My wife and I work together and we have a very spartan way of life, dedicated to science and study.

Doing science at the margins of the academy implies its share of abnegation, is certainly viewed as bizarre by many but it happens. Although I do not complain, I won't recommend it either.


Hey, I'm extremely interested in open source computational biology/biochemistry and find this very interesting. What do you do to make money whilst exploring and contributing to these areas?


I've had somewhat the opposite experience - I left academia (math) and am very happy to do programming for a living on so-called mundane CRUD apps.

Academia suffocates you with its processes, and the tendency of it to zombify young academics to thinking that high abstraction is the only way to go in life is in itself horrible.

In the end, I'm happy doing what I do. Mathematics was a fun challenge, but I never viewed myself as just a mathematician - I have a deep thinking highly adaptable mind that is geared to solve problems, not just be a specialist.


I decided not to pursue and English degree because yeah right I'm not paying tuition for that, not after all the debt I accumulated from my CS undergrad.

It basically means that continental philosophy is my hobby. I try to keep up with 'real' academia through following certain people on Twitter, and submitting papers to conferences, reading things...


Your PLOS stuff sounds really interesting! Could you point me to some of that please?

Whilst plugging away at my thesis I have gotten interested in data analysis, data mining, etc. and my default data set consists of PLOS articles. I blog about stuff I do here: http://georg.io


There is a fair bit of space in between PhD research and CRUD work.

Industrial Research can be on stuff that will lead to products in the near future. I think you can get a lot of the same feel of academic research by working on things like international standards. I have been able to do this without even a bachelors degree.


>I think the Ph.D. system is an abomination. It was invented as a system for educating German professors in the 19th century, and it works well under those conditions. It’s good for a very small number of people who are going to spend their lives being professors. But it has become now a kind of union card that you have to have in order to have a job, whether it’s being a professor or other things, and it’s quite inappropriate for that. It forces people to waste years and years of their lives sort of pretending to do research for which they’re not at all well-suited. In the end, they have this piece of paper which says they’re qualified, but it really doesn’t mean anything. The Ph.D. takes far too long and discourages women from becoming scientists, which I consider a great tragedy. So I have opposed it all my life without any success at all.

I don't think that I would have believed this until I got into graduate school but it's really true. A PhD doesn't mean anything. If I told you that someone had a PhD, that wouldn't have told you anything else else about that person.


Wellll... it really is a union card. The fact that a person has a PhD from a reputable institution does in fact set an absolute baseline: this person managed to do something that was sufficiently close to being science for other scientists to call it science.

I would say that if we want to think in terms of "union cards", we should just scrap the PhD and pin "science ranks" to publication metrics, as the real scientific job market already does. After all, what we really need from a scientific union card isn't to tell us how good a scientist is (and it doesn't do that), it's just to give us some baseline for separating real scientists from crackpots and wannabes (of which there are far too many).


I agree, a PhD doesn't mean anything in itself. I don't think that they are entirely worthless as a process though.

In a PhD you potentially have vast intellectual freedom to learn what you want whilst earning a (small) income, rather than being molded by a company.

I say potentially because whilst I've had a lot of freedom over the past 3.5 years, I can't say that this would be true of all institutions and all supervisors. If you get treated and worked like cheap disposable labour then maybe you won't get as much out of it.

Personally I think I have gained a lot of skills that are useful outside of academia (largely implemented in Python). This happened because I knew that I didn't want to pigeon hole myself into academia and made choices correspondingly (e.g. Python instead of matlab or idl).


> I don't think that I would have believed this until I got into graduate school but it's really true. A PhD doesn't mean anything. If I told you that someone had a PhD, that wouldn't have told you anything else else about that person.

I believe the opposite. Before entering grad school i was under this impression, but now at the tail end of my PhD, saying someone has a PhD tells me that they're motivated above everything else. You don't just 'get one' for going to classes and writing a few papers. It really pushes you to establish solid techniques and approaches to conduct meaningful research. More importantly, as many ideas fail before finding something that works, it's pushes the student to stay motivated.


Having a PhD I would not say it is worthless, but I suspect if I had spent the same amount of time just working I would have gained just as much. Of all the problems science faces the 'need' for a PhD to join the science 'union' is pretty low down - things like pervese incentives and rewarding academic gamesmanship over quality are much more of a problem.


It probably isn't necessary in the strictest sense of the word, But I guess that really depends on what it is that you want to get out of it. But the most valuable part of my PhD were the few years that I spent getting regular face time with subject matter experts, who walked me past the periphery of my field, to the point where I am comfortable enough publishing my own peer reviewed research.

You could read the literature and try to get far enough up to speed to publish entirely yourself, but I guarantee that you will miss many subtleties if you don't connect with folks in the field. Enough that you are face a lot of hurdles trying to pass your work through peer review. The idea of doing that alone seems twice as daunting as doing a PhD.

That said, I am neither teaching nor in academia (gov't at the moment). My retrospective might be a bit different if I was trying to elbow my way into tenure.


>I guarantee that you will miss many subtleties if you don't connect with folks in the field. Enough that you are face a lot of hurdles trying to pass your work through peer review.

This translates to, "you need to learn to speak the correct dialect of bullshit to get into the club."


Clearly not "worthless" if you plan on spending your career teaching or researching in academia. Otherwise...people should really, really count the cost.


For me, the value of the PhD is in the experience itself. Few get to experience, full time for 4 years, the intellectual freedom that my PhD affords. Even if I never work in academia, or my PhD doesn't help me get a much better job than I would otherwise have got, I'll still always be glad to have done it.


>I suspect if I had spent the same amount of time just working I would have gained just as much.

You would have gained just as much, except for the PhD certification.

I don't think you would need a PhD to do science. Journals never ask for your CV in a submission.

However you need it to get a job in science, because your employer does not know if you actually can do science. That's why you need certifications.


I have a Ph.D. in physics and now I'm a full stack web developer. :p While I would not recommend my path to anyone, for me it happened to work out. I am not claiming that it couldn't have worked out going a different route but I was really challenged throughout graduate school and it help me to realize some of my potential. I gained a good bit of confidence with regards to my ability to learning complex things, solving extremely tedious and difficult problems and generating my own interesting ideas.

All that said, I think pretty poorly of physics academia now. In retrospect, it seems like a small, incestuous group of people consistently reminding themselves that they are the smartest people in the world and are working on only the most noble and difficult pursuits.


I dropped out of a PhD program in chemistry taking a masters and have been working as a full stack web developer and team lead. I've now been offered admission to a physics PhD program and am at a quandary - I have publishable research that would almost certainly get me a first author PRL (my presumptive co-author is one of the editors of PRB) but I don't even know if I want to throw away another 3-4 years of my life earning-potential wise.


It depends what motivates you and where you want to be in 4 years.

There are far easier ways to earn money in the long term than doing a PhD. A PhD gives you 4 years* of relative freedom to build yourself intellectually within some rough bounds (these bounds are dependent on your program and can be quite tight though). You also get to hang out on campus with other PhDs (ymmv!).

But, you could get similar freedom with even less bounds by working and saving hard for the next 4 years and then doing what you want. It depends what motivates you.

*depends where you are though. I'm UK.


As someone who didn't obtain a PhD, I found this article pretty interesting. However we can't all be Freeman Dyson. I think that credential inflation means that the time is coming when more jobs will require a PhD, not less.

Of course it's remotely possible that our society will reject the PhD due to rapidly rising educational costs, but I don't think that's going to happen.


> Of course it's remotely possible that our society will reject the PhD due to rapidly rising educational costs, but I don't think that's going to happen.

A sizeable fraction of folks in Science/Engineering do not pay tuition for their PhDs, and receive a modest stipend for living expenses.


That fraction is over 95%


If you assume opportunity cost is nothing, then that's great.


If you have to pay for PhD studies instead of being paid for them, then stay out of it, it's a bad deal for everyone.


I would have to say that the problems in academic science go deeper than "PhD union cards", but they're certainly rooted in the same academic-familial-reproductive structure as the PhD issue.

Academia does a breadth-first heuristic search on possible research, slowly converting the search space of potential ideas into published papers. If you want to work in the research system, you get slotted into a specialty and an education largely just according to what your grad-school and postdoc supervisors already work on. Hence why I'm calling it a breadth-first search: new scientists are almost literally additional nodes in a search tree.

The problem is the heuristic that governs where the tree is expanded (and how quickly): publication numbers and grant funding (which is determined by publication numbers). From the personal perspective there's also the sheer coincidence of which research fields and which advisers you've heard of at all when you finish your BSc or MSc and apply to your postgraduate research degree -- which is governed by grant funding and publication numbers.

Thing being... not only is a tree-shaped expansion structure generating untenable job markets, but the expansion heuristic in question doesn't really correspond to what we want out of scientific research. There are three main reasons to prioritize one research proposal over another: we think it will be technologically fruitful, we think it will be cheap or easy, and we think it will advance knowledge. In short: technology, convenience, and mystery. Grant funding and publication metrics, however, almost exclusively target convenience, with technological applicability coming in second-place and the fundamental scientific issue of filling in our ignorance about Nature stuck waaaay at the back of the bus.


“We should try to introduce our children to science today as a rebellion against poverty and ugliness and militarism and economic injustice.”

There's nothing more I can say about, or add to this. Read it again instead.


I actually have a very different opinion about academia compared to the rest of the comments. I've been working in industry for the past 8 years, since my late teens. Now I'm searching a more research oriented life path because I'm tired of working always for shit people need. It seems that knowledge has a value on its own, and it's not always about pleasing the costumer. So I've enrolled in a bachelor degree in computing at the open university which hopefully will lead me to a place where I can work on things that truly interest me but that don't always lend themselves to meeting someone's requirements.


I wonder if there's a bigger trend here. What stood out for me was this response:

  I look for interesting problems that I can solve. I
  don’t care whether they’re important or not, and so I’m 
  definitely not obsessed with solving some big mystery.
It suggests working on interesting problems isn't only rewarding but almost a precondition for working on important problems. As if you should be actively trying not to pick important problems.


That is something one would like to believe, but honestly I think it's only true if one's taste for interesting problems happens to be very well tuned for finding important problems. Dyson's is, but I think he's in a very small minority.


If that's true, it suggests taste for interesting problems might be a different kind of taste (is there a difference between taste for problems and taste for solutions?) Either way it begs the question: how do you cultivate taste for interesting problems?

From his Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_Dyson

His friend, the neurologist and author Oliver Sacks, said: "A favorite word of Freeman's about doing science and being creative is the word 'subversive'. He feels it's rather important not only to be not orthodox, but to be subversive, and he's done that all his life."


Maybe so, though I don't know how to cultivate taste for interesting problems or even whether it's possible per se. All I ever managed to do was train myself to explicitly focus on important problems.


Can I ask you how you trained yourself to do this? Is there a trick that helps focus on important problems?


I find the key is, using the metaphor of the tech tree, to distinguish between branches (inventions which lead to other things) and leaves (which don't, at least not in a relevant timescale) and - this is the hard part - to ruthlessly apply the rule only work on branches.

It's easy to see that things like video games, artificial life and fart "apps" are leaves and we shouldn't spend time working on them. It gets painful when we apply the rules to things we value more highly. Astronomy, particle physics, space flight, fusion power: these are all noble pursuits, at least the first two or three were branches in the past, by rights they should all be branches today. But they're not. They're leaves. That's the cold fact of the matter, and the world has to be dealt with as it is, not as it should be.


Any advice for applying for jobs that specify a PhD as a requirement, but for which I'd be otherwise qualified? I'm in bioinformatics, and trying to transition into a particular field. I completed a masters degree, and have been working for a few years in a rather intense academic research lab. I don't have any intention of being a professor, but would like to continue in research- based on that, most people I've talked to have advised to skip the PhD. However, more and more company jobs like the bioinformatics positions I'm eyeing at Craig Venter's new Human Longevity Institute seem to be specifying PhDs as a requirement. Any insight or suggestions?


Just apply, it can't hurt.


This article makes my day! I have read quite a bit about Feynman, and am now reading his thicker work in my spare time. I really enjoy reading the wisdom of folks with extremely good pattern matching abilities.


If I ever start thinking that it's too late to start learning new things and working on new problems, this interview should set me straight. Wise words.


Another example of Dyson's ability to find mathematical connections: the link between the zeros of the Riemann zeta function and random matrices.

http://www.ias.edu/about/publications/ias-letter/articles/20...


"He’s a computer expert, so everything he does is worked out just with numbers, and so I have taken on as my next task to translate what he did into equations"

Just numbers.


Amazing, I love mathematics. I want to study it all my life.


Nice post! I had a great time reading.


Pedigree is for .......




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