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"Acting as a custodian should require a high-bar, including appropriate security safeguards that are independently audited and tested on a regular basis, adequate balance sheets and reserves as commercial entities, transparent and accountable customer disclosures, and clear policies to not use customer assets for proprietary trading or for margin loans in leveraged trading. It does not appear to any of us that MtGox followed any these essential requirements as a financial services provider."

Did I miss the part where Coinbase, Kraken, Bitstamp, BTC China, Blockchain.info, and Circle met those essential requirements?

I guess those things are just essential now, not in the past.




So, the Bitcoin community is calling for regulation?


It sounds like self-regulation. If exchanges would just prove solvency periodically (which is possible with the blockchain), the whole world could see it. Wouldn't it be nice if you could see the balance sheet of your bank, in a way that accountants couldn't lie about it?


> It sounds like self-regulation.

Because that has worked wonders for the other industries -- let's have pharma companies, oil, food producers, just self regulate.


There are historical instances of self-regulation working. The movie and video game industries control their own content ratings and before the invention of dynamite, nitroglycerin was commonly used as an explosive in construction. Shipping NG is very dangerous because of its instability and many accidents occurred. They industry eventually developed extensive standards regarding shipping that vastly improved the safety of shipping NG.


> movie and video game industries control their own content ratings

Not sure you're helping yourself here. The established movie industry uses its content rating system as a bludgeon against independent filmmakers. The video game industry's content controls are largely a joke, assigned arbitrarily by people who never actually play the game.


How are movie ratings used as a bludgeon against independent filmmakers?


Short version: Most cinemas and other outlets in the US won't carry your movie if it's unrated, so in effect those who control the ratings control which movies can get distributed. Also most cinemas in the US won't show NC17 rated movies so the ratings people can also use that as a way to prevent your movie being shown to a large cinema audience if they want to.


I'm sorry it's not an easy source to access, but you should watch this film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Film_Is_Not_Yet_Rated


In the one case the life of the engineers and not the execs bonuses were on the line. In the other created one of the more potent systems of censorship (it is largely invisible and encourages self censoring the content) and preventing new/small guys from entering.


> movie and video game industries control their own content ratings

which are pretty much a joke. PG is now a worthless rating

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2013/11/26/disney...

The difference between PG-13 and R in many cases is completely arbitrary.

The ratings lump many kinds of movies together and says absolutely nothing about their content.

No movie can be NC-17 or unrated because that is a kiss of death. No theaters will play it, no big box stores will sell it. I think what R can get away with has broadened considerably because of that.


If you have appropriate regulations to support self-regulation it can work very well.

For example, here in Indonesia, if I buy eggs at the supermarket I don't really have to worry about them carrying salmonella. Why? Because truth in labelling laws and demand for salmonella-free eggs means that the farms that sell to the big food distributors all get tested so they can label their eggs as salmonella-free.

One really wonders why this hasn't taken off in the US. I can think however of a few reasons (it's not just too much or too little regulation but the wrong regulations).


That still involves regulation, you have to regulate and make sure that people aren't labeling their eggs salmonella free without getting them tested.

At some level it comes back to regulation. It is part of why I feel bitcoin is misguided.


s/libertarianism/bitcoin/ and I agree with you as a Distributist.

As a Distributist, my feeling is that successful regulation supports decentralization. The problem with the regulation vs deregulation dichotomy is that regulation is usually pushed as a centralizing power, while deregulation is usually also pushed as a centralizing power.


Your comment has been approved by the ministry of internet content and contains no unlawful speech or cyberbullying material. Enjoy your stay.


prove solvency periodically

Solvency, the ability to pay what you owe people when it falls due, is easy to prove at any point in time. The state of insolvency occurs the first time you have an obligation to pay, which you cannot satisfy.

The thing is, if you're a de facto bank (by virtue of holding customer demand deposits) then your future expectations of solvency could turn out to be wrong because everyone wants their money at the same time (i.e. there's a bank run).


MtGox isn't supposed to be a fractional-reserve Bitcoin bank, so, modulo server capacity problems and modest transaction delays due to offline Bitcoin storage, why, in principle, should everyone wanting their Bitcoins at the same time pose a problem?


You are right.

My point about solvency was a general one (applying to all people and companies) but I overlooked an important point: the Bitcoins entrusted by customers to MtGox do not become MtGox assets. The Bitcoins are always owned by the customer (not owed to the customer). They are less like bank deposits than they are the contents of safety deposit boxes at a bank branch.


The idea is that they would prove their solvency for the hypothetical event of everyone wanting their money back at the same time.


> Wouldn't it be nice if you could see the balance sheet of your bank, in a way that accountants couldn't lie about it?

I don't think it would be a big "feature" for me. As far as confidence in my bank goes the big thing is the FDIC sticker on the door/website.


Ah, you should look for the bank's sticker on the FDIC website, not vice versa, if your goal is to not get scammed.


If by "regulation" you mean "cryptographic proof of solvency", then yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7277865

Bitcoin itself has the potential to replace the need for certain types of regulation entirely, but we're not there yet.


Why must that require regulation? They're calling for a meme that informed actors probably wouldn't do business with exchanges that don't provide those "requirements".


That's regulations with a multilateral peer enforcement mechanism. Conveniently enough it serves as a barrier to entry to new competitors. So if you were wanting to start a bitcoin exchange, you may have missed the boat.


It's not regulation, it's best practices. You can choose to work with someoone who does them or not. Regulation takes that choice away.


Revolutions stop being fun when you're the one who's bleeding...


I think the bitcoin community at large is interested in standardization for the greater good not regulation enforced through tyrannical political institutions.


Well, who decides what the "greater good" is and how to achieve it? If the BitCoin exchanges get together and decide on a set of standard procedures and policies that are in any way enforced or monitored, then voila: "Governments are instituted among [BitCoin Exchanges], deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed", aka "tryannical political institutions" and regulation.


I think the Bitcoin community at large has a certain set of values that it regards as sacred (security, anonymity, freedom from state regulation)

Perhaps I'm wrong though.

Regulation is often associated with political states and are often enforced through brute force. I think if we could, as a community, regulate without any state intervention that would be ideal.


Without doing a lot of due diligence, it might be hard to figure out which exchanges are well run. And its not like lying to auditors etc hasn't been done before.

Maybe the exchanges can join together and offer something like FDIC Insurance?


Why would you agree to insure your competitor against their own incompetence?


Because:

• Receipt of insurance is contingent on meeting requirements for insurance, so it's not blind assistance in the face of incompetence. The 3 years of account thefts reported to have occurred at Mt. Gox would, hopefully, have been detected. Even collaborating on more secure storage and trading systems. There's a precedent for this: it's how the large credit card companies (BankAmericard, I mean, Visa and Interbank/Master Charge, I mean, MasterCard), were formed.

• Rates would correspond to perceived risk, providing a market feedback mechanism.

• Some risks are incidental and random. Weaknesses in protocols, problems in network or technology stacks (independent of individual exchange software).

• The end result is a greater level of trust in the entire marketplace as a whole, so: more transactions, more members, more profits.




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