And if you aren't the best person for the job? You'll have to up your skills or start with jobs that you are the best person for. Put up a friend's blog for $20. Find that business down the street that doesn't have a web site and sell them on doing it for $50. Build a volunteer registration app for your favorite non-profit for $100.

Related to that, and to your comment about not having the time, I find this piece from John Scalzi helpful: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/09/16/writing-find-the-time-...

Is the reason you don't have time really that there were zero seconds left in every single one of the last 365 days? Or is that part of how you're bullshitting yourself? We all do it, so you shouldn't feel bad about it. Just spend some time thinking about how you got where you are and what your priorities are. It's important to recognize (in a kind and respectful fashion as possible) that the biggest common factor among your last jobs has been you. Sure, change careers if that's what you really think you need. But don't be surprised if changing careers doesn't fix the big problems.

Also, you should consider whether you're experiencing the Dunning-Kruger effect. The way that people get good is by having high standards and then working to live up to them. As Ira Glass says, "Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through."

Keep fighting. You'll get better.

In both cases they were lower stress and more rewarding. In the case of training, i felt like my work had a real impact on people's lives that I never felt in tech.

My wife and I even dabbled in livestock including raising sheep, pigs and chickens.

Perhaps the fact that the main purpose of my secondary jobs was not money, but getting to know people in my community and connecting with them was what made them lower stress. If I had been reliant on them as a primary source of income they may have taken on all the headaches of my day job.

I've never liked sitting at a computer all day. I went to college for it, got a good job right after college and was never able to make nearly as much money doing anything else.

I'm constantly trying to reduce my possessions and live minimally in the hopes that I can support myself and my family doing something I enjoy even though it will almost certainly be for much less money.

If you're willing to take the 6 A.M. (or other early or late time slots) then it's a good way to start with only 3-5 hours a week.

In the barrista job, the coffee shop was across the street from me. I worked nights and weekends.

With the personal training job, I only taught 5 hours a week. With drive time, prep work and consulting with clients after a session, I spent about 8-10 hours total per week on it. I don't do this anymore as it did take too much time away from other pursuits.

To engineers, missing deadlines sounds like this catastrophic error. This is amplified by our experience in an academic system where deadlines are well-tested and 95+ percent of students can meet them. The truth, however, is that most "deadlines" in business are flexible and more tied to some uninformed speculation on how long something "should" take, not how long it actually will take.

Some deadlines are hard. In law or government, 12:00 means 12:00 and 12:01 can mean missing a contract or losing a job. Governments are often legally forbidden (in the U.S.) from awarding a contract if the proposal comes in one minute after deadline (anti-corruption laws). Others (most, in software) only threaten mild embarrassment. Sometimes, you can tell ahead of time that the deadline will be missed no matter what happens and your job is to deflect blame.

If there's a career benefit (as in a promotion, a raise, or some other hard currency that will advance your reputation) in working 70 hours per week to meet a deadline, then do it. If there isn't, then just stay out of the critical path of blame.

The biggest adjustment was the income disparity between the two - we're definitely a lot poorer at the bank (though rich at the table). That's something we've gotten used to though. Many of my hobbies and projects now involve building things on the farm that end up eventually being used to produce something we'll sell.

I do still supplement the slower winter months with the odd telecommute contract, but the plan is to eventually go all in on farming (hopefully by next year).

It is a great book on farming but I find it to be one of the best business books I've ever read as well. Just wanted to recommend it to you.

That said, there is a bit of internal confusion in your message which talks about specific jobs vs tech and tech qualification. So if your issue is that you don't have a degree, consider going to school to get one and doing web development on the side to help fund it.

Finally, look at this question "I don't really have time to do side projects and build up a decent portfolio" very carefully. What do you do with your time? Are you putting in 60 - 80 hrs at the office? in what role? What do you do when you aren't in the office? That can often inform you where your passions are.

I switched from software development to law and am quite happy so far. I liked tech, but my job involves a lot more writing and personal interaction and that suits me. But I've met people who made the same transition and disliked it for precisely those same qualities. Even desk jobs vary widely in character and its worth introspecting to figure out what suits you best.

I think going to school is a great idea. I was too young to appreciate the unique social context of school when I was an undergrad, but after working for a couple of years I approached grad school very differently. School is really a wonderful place to meet intelligent people with diverse interests. It's a wonderful setting for dating and having relationships. It's a real opportunity to figure out what sort of work you'd like and enjoy. Especially for someone coming back from the working world, it's an opportunity to change your scene and explore things that make you happier. Yes, it's expensive and time consuming, but I think it can also be tremendously valuable for reasons that have nothing to do with jobs.

I basically work, go to the gym, and sleep. I've been allowed to work remotely lately which saves me 4 hours of commuting on most days. Lately those 4 hours have been consumed by client work. I'm also dealing with some health issues that make it hard for me to stay awake and/or focus. Skipping them gym just makes the next day much worse so I don't want to consider that right now.

That being said you're right that I should be able to still carve out some time to do other things.

Find a different job, which is not your goal job, just something to live on that will give you some breathing space. From there, start your side projects or whatever else you decide you need to do to up your cred.

Even if you liked what you're doing, you still need to find a different job.

It sounds almost like that's justification for not doing it. Instead, think of that process as lots of smaller first steps.

Dont work a second more than 40hrs. If your project cannot handle only 40hrs per week, it needs to scale horizontally (more people). if horizontal scaling wont work (aka: Mythical man month) then the deadline was/is just wishful thinking.

If your case is actually burnout: I would take 2 weeks vacation immediately and ban computers during that time, maybe a beach somewhere tropical. Stop working overtime and drastically reduce your cortisol levels (drink black tea, no caffeine/coffee, deep breathing, cardio not weights, all the usual prescriptions for stress). Finally, invest some time into increasing your bandwidth. See: "Apprenticeship patterns" by Dave H. Hoover.

Best of luck.

In a couple of months your body should have reset. Start to address the deep roots of your issues. Try reading "the slow fix" by Carl Honore .

Most of this is anecdotal advice based off limited information. Hopefully it helps.

This is the first step. What about moving? Long commutes are killing your time while you are not working, and are basically "work-time". In a 16 hour day of non-sleeping hours, 4 hours is 25% of your day.

So, one strategy would be to move in order to get free time. Then, use this free time to develop a hobby/portfolio of new skills to leverage going forward. If this step is not feasible, then that def. think through the fundamental tradeoffs you are making.

But a 4 hour commute can ruin a good job, and can make a marginal one a negative ROI on your time for sure.

Find the time.

It seems like you already know how you can carve it out, you just have to accept the sacrifice[0].

Figure out what's most important to you and start cutting out things that don't move you closer to that goal. You'll simultaneously start moving in the direction you want to go and possibly spend less making the possible reduction in salary easier to swallow.

This is all certainly easier said than done, but it's not like your situation is terribly unique - I expect it's pretty common experience around HN.

Everyone I know who found happiness leaving or reorienting themselves in tech did it by preparing rather than simply leaping. Turning hobbies and part-time projects of passion into careers.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6245844

I started an early career in tech and did well. At 17, I had a full time position in the data center of a school district, and from there, went to a special support department for a major corporation.

At 21 or thereabouts I realized I hated the tech industry, and it was making me bitter and cynical at too young of an age. I wanted to know if I could start over from scratch and still do alright. So, right about the time of the dot-com bust, I bailed out and started wandering around.

My jobs after that included ditch digging, climbing instructor, rock gym manager, outdoor retail, and tree planting.

It's still, overall, the happiest I've ever been.

One of the worst things about tech is that there are so many problems that you become responsible for, but can't solve. You can't do anything about somebody else's stupid program. You can't do anything about a bad piece of hardware. But, if you're digging a ditch, there's no problem you can't solve with a bigger shovel. :-)

Climbing instructor / rock gym manager was my favorite. It was pretty amazing, I met a lot of cool people, I picked up a lot of good skills. That's not a part of my life anymore, but it'll always be a part of me.

Unfortunately, none of those things ever paid a lot. So, some years ago, I went back into tech and eventually started my own little tech business. I have more money now, but I'm not happier. But, I still get to revisit my old life from time to time, and that makes tech a lot more bearable than it was in the beginning.

So, in short:

> If you want to do it, do it.

> Money might be scarce but you'll survive.

> If you want to go back to tech later, you can. Don't worry about being "behind" in the tech industry. You can catch up, it's not hard.

I've considered it. I got halfway there, building museum props for a short spell. It wasn't enough money so I took the first programming contract that came my way. I do have to say, life has been much better as a freelancer than as an employee. It's still not perfect, though that is partly my own fault for not finding more clients.

I think that's a large part of it: the self determination of working for yourself. I know some people can't motivate themselves enough to get the work done on their own. I guess they just find working for someone else a lot easier than I do. I don't know, I wake up and remind myself of cubicle farms and it kicks my ass out of bed every morning.

He's now a successful jack-of-all-trades machinist/special effects guy for TV shows and movies everyone in the world has heard of. He is happy. Still hates computers.

I don't know how old you are, but perhaps instead of a drastic career change, you should examine what you do in your free time and modify that?

If you're spending all day working on computers, try focusing on something completely different during your off-times. I do a little woodworking and other manual grunt labor for fun.

Everyone has their Office Space moments. Mine has been for the past 7 years. Sometimes, something drastic is needed, and other times small, gradual changes can help.

http://www.jwz.org/about.html

"Hi, I'm Jamie Zawinski. I'm the proprietor of DNA Lounge, a world famous and award-winning all ages dance club and live music venue in San Francisco, and of DNA Pizza, the 24 hour cafe and pizzeria next door.

Prior to that, I worked as a programmer. I was one of the founders of Netscape and Mozilla.org, and have been involved in the free software and open source community since the mid-80s. I was the primary developer of Lucid Emacs (now XEmacs), and probably wrote most of your screen savers."

From The Startup Kids (http://thestartupkids.com).

If Zach were doing the things he is now solely to make a living, how would that impact his happiness while conducting those activities? Would he realistically even be able to?

A person like this takes their security from their faith in themselves, god, their relationships or their belief in some higher purpose or perhaps in their own self-delusion.

Having enough can mean enough money, enough love, enough self-actualization. Money, to me, is the easiest one.

Became a home schooling stay at home dad then a divorced home schooling stay at home dad. Along the way I got a fantastic education in direct response marketing and entrepreneurship.

Now, I'm getting back into tech. These days I balance the following: sleep(!!!), teaching and learning Argentine Tango, yoga, kids, eating well, time with friends, marketing and biz dev for consulting, problem solving with computers, and writing about spiritual experiences.

I can only do any one of them with enthusiasm because I do all of them. Happiness has turned out to be what I bring to the table not what is given to me by an activity or outside experience.

Took me over 40 years to figure this one out. We'll see how it plays out over the next 40 years.

My friend, after a string of really crappy dev jobs, quit, moved to Austin, and is now working as a barista at a coffee shop right across the street. He isn't making a lot of money, but he is going to a ton of meetups, playing a lot of video games, and generally having a great time. A lot of his stress is gone now that he isn't doing something he hates for 40+ hours a week.

If you want to build your portfolio (and make some money) the local business route is a pretty solid way to go. Lot's of small companies still don't have websites, and you can make decent money throwing up a few WordPress sites. They won't cost you a lot of time, or them a lot of money, so they should be willing to take a chance on you. You may have to physically make some rounds, but a nice walk around town isn't so bad.

I have no idea what your expenses are, but if it's like most people, you'll probably have to cut back some. Throwing in a lower-stress, part-time job would help as well. Then you should have enough time for web development and side projects.

Last time I did this, I saved up a lot of money, quit my job, and worked for 6 months on my own projects. It was awesome. I only finished a couple of things, none of which made any serious money, but I had a great time. Freelancing helped me last a little longer than I would have if I just used my savings.

Next year (end of March, almost here!), I'll be leaving for good. Moving to the country, starting a farm (that seems to be a lot more common than I thought, based on this thread), and being a part-time (ha!) farmer and part-time devloper. I love developing, but I'm not happy working in the tech industry.

Good luck, and I hope you find something that makes you happy.

Also, don't let a requirement like a degree stop you from applying. I worked many jobs in tech that required a degree before I actually had one.

I've been writing software for 10 years now, but I find development quite solitary and the corporate world can be a bit of a drag to the extent that it takes the fun out of coding.

I still love writing code and learning new technologies, but I can scratch that itch on my own time and find something I feel a bit more passionate about for the day job.

For me it's going to be entrepreneurship next. If that fails I will look at retraining in a completely new area.

After film school, I needed money to pay for film school... so I tried to get back into IT. San Francisco was still in the doldrums, so it was stressful trying to find a job and I kept fouling up interviews. I eventually made my way down to LA and lucked into a good contract job there. But I found myself really beating myself into the ground - development was taking so much out of me, I couldn't manage to work on anything else, like screenplays... I was going through burnout but couldn't see it at the time. The compulsion to do a good job was taking over and having a great client didn't help.

Fast forward a decade to now, and I am getting completely out of IT now. I've spent the last 4 years being professionally raped by a full blown sociopath and the reason I couldn't see it was because I was having to put all my chi / focus / energy / whatever into doing the work - it was now a serious compulsion instead of the enjoyable 'get paid for my hobby' thing my career started out as. And being manipulated didn't help... This process I now see had started 10 years ago but I, like always, pushed myself to keep on the same track instead of forcing myself to go through the stress of change. So I've lost a decade of my life here...

I may be projecting, but "work, gym, sleep" sounds like you are starting to do what I did. Don't! It's a slippery slope. I wish to heck I'd reached out to HN like I see all these other people doing and asked for advice... If you still like web development, great, keep up to date at least out of pure interest, but it does sound like you need to do something different, if only for awhile. Changing gears will only help if you are getting habitual in your work life.

Pick something interesting in web development, just one or two things, and become an expert at it - at some point you'll be able to get paid to do it no matter if you have a degree or not, just as long as you are prominent in some fashion in that particular ecosystem. Being a generalist like me is only good if you like working for small companies and doing everything only "good enough" versus being the "expert" in one thing for a company. Most companies only want square pegs they can hammer when they get past a certain size....

I'm guessing you are late 20s, early 30s? It is about now then that people start asking themselves "what do I want to really do when I'm 40ish?" I didn't listen to myself unfortunately - procrastination. So if so, you still have the time to make a mistake without too much consequence - one's life is like the software design cycle (sort of). If you think your life is like the waterfall model... every mistake in your 20s will haunt you forever (i.e. the women who have a checklist for Prince Charming). But life really is more like evolutionary design or maybe agile... try to view things like that.

Odds are you would find it every bit as soul crushing as tech support if you did get a job doing it. Web development still carries the stigma of "I know how everything should be, you just do the grunt work of actually writing the code for me". You constantly deal with bullshit, people insisting on making the site suck ass because they "have an eye for design" or making things convoluted and hard to use because "I know people" so who cares about all those usability studies. And then when the shitty site is a failure, they pretend it was your fault and that all of the stupid shit they demanded was your idea. Web development is enjoyable when you are doing it for yourself, rarely is it tolerable when doing it for someone else. If you want to aspire to something better, pick a trade. Web development isn't a step up from tech support, it is just a step sideways.

I am still haunted by tech since I've quit my last 9-to-5 tech job years ago.

1. Most of the happiness-finding comes from cutting expenses and complexity, not from leaving "tech". If you want to live in San Francisco or New York, you need a high-paying job, and you'll have to worry about security deposits and commutes. If you'd be happy in New Hampshire or Mexico-- and most people would be-- you don't.

2. It takes a fair bit of savings, and some luck. Make sure you have bridges unburned and contacts so that if your yoga studio fails, you can get back into technology. I don't think it's the work itself that's bothering you; I think it's the political nature of technology when you slide in at a low level and have no credibility.

3. OP: you, personally, have been bumping along the bottom of tech. It's not that tech is a horrible place (although people do burn out now and then). You've just been getting a string of shitty jobs.

4. Here's a counterintuitive idea, related to #3. You've already gotten over the hard part, which is getting people to pay you as a freelancer. Double your rate. Double it again, maybe. You could be getting shitty work because you charge too little. Perhaps you'll be happier if you charge more and get better projects. To add to that, you'll have more time (because you'll be doing less work, most likely) to build your skills and move on to something better.

5. If #4 fails, include training time (to get the skills to move to better work) in your billable hours.

As far as cutting expenses goes that's something I need to work on. I basically can't take a pay cut because I live paycheck to paycheck. I already live in one of the lowest cost areas in the country and make 2x average pay in the area.

That's a hideous pimp cut (86%).

You probably can't work for those clients directly-- I'm sure it's in your contract-- so what you need to do is ask these people, who are paying $300 for you and happy to do so, if they can refer you to friends or other businesses (who might be their own side projects) that might be willing to meet you, individually, in the $100-150/hour range.

Your contract may prohibit you from cutting out your employer for an existing client, but says nothing about leads you get while on a job. Given how badly you're getting screwed, your top priority in each gig should be to get leads that support your independent consulting efforts.