Feminists look up the socioeconomic spectrum and see men as CEOs say, and want some of that for themselves and their friends. Fair enough, who doesn't want success? But they never look down and see the men mining coal, collecting trash, packing meat, pouring cement and all the other dirty, dangerous, low pay and low prestige jobs. We actually need those people far more than we do a new social network. Society collapses without them. That is something the movement is going to need to reconcile at some point.
This reads to me like you think only women are or can be feminists. So let me give you my perspective:
To the extent there are institutional barriers that prevent women from being able to get those jobs if they want them, those barriers should be torn down. But the reason that's not happening as fast isn't because women don't want those jobs, it's because no one wants those jobs. So for my part, I'm more concerned with the social factors -- gender, but more likely class politics -- that lead to anyone needing to do shitty dangerous work who doesn't really want to.
In brief, if society would collapse without them, we should be paying them a lot more, not relying on bullshit machismo and a lack of options. I consider that a feminist position.
Sure but there is an elephant in the corner of that room. Prestige is social standing, and social standing is deeply baked into mammals as a proxy for desirability as a mate.
You will hear feminist principles at work when someone wants to go up in social standing. But if the principle of equality is to be upheld it has to go the other way too, and it won't, so long as a persons job has anything to do with their social rank. What determines all this? Well the consensus of the tribe sure, but let's be completely frank: the collective opinion of the opposite sex about what signals desirability is what determines a lot more than we would comfortably admit structures our supposedly sophisticated society.
Okay, but... I feel like you're completely ignoring the feminist principle I just outlined to go on a little monologue. Is there any chance of us having a productive discussion that relates in some way what I actually wrote?
OK think about this: being a nurse is a low paid job[1] that involves, umm, cleaning up after other people. It is quite literally "a shitty job". But people still want to be nurses, and nurses have a high social status. So what is the difference between this, and one of the jobs you have identified that no one wants to do? It is entirely one of perception.
Sure. Perception, physical labor, bodily danger, advancement prospects, hours, locations, unions, a direct involvement in the lives of others, and, if you like, social status. Fine. Are you gonna drop the relevant part on me now?
What never stops amazing me that Feminism which is Left ideology, it's almost like Marxism in action. Well, it really is Marxism in action when I think about it. Well, this Marxist ideology is all about women being these capitalistic successful CEOs of these international corporations that are all about greed, greed, greed and profits. I'm sorry but it's quite literally impossible to take all this nonsense seriously. Feminism in all about special treatment for special interest group, that's all, just open your eyes to see.
Of course typical weak response attacking form and not the content. I didn't expect much more.
One of the reasons left is not at all that popular when it should be, for example in Greece, is that it forgot about its ideology and sold out to the capital. Hence feminist parties in Europe never above 1% vote. Hence Greek left is done and neo-nazis topping the polls. Once you sold your soul to the devil there is no coming back Mr. let's get CEO jobs for women.
So if you want political advise it would be don't be a whore sold to the capital. The age of conformism and technocrats in politics is over. It is all about the ground work, grassroots and standing for something in life nowadays. And I don't see feminists there. I see them in 100 richest and most powerful capitalist club instead. You are a fake.
Don't say never. You think police or fire departments or military are highly paid or safe? Many women have fought for the chance to show they can do those jobs.
Sure, that's where prestige comes in. For many people, the social standing of their job is as if not more important than their pay. But my point stands. Real equality must permeate all jobs.
I suppose there are some who want that, but many just want the opportunity. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? Barring people from an activity strictly because of their gender or race is absurd. The race barrier has huge holes in it today, and the gender barrier is being torn apart as well.
Here's an example (from my example professions). Women in the police forces used to be relegated to meter maids, secretarial/administrative roles and other "safe" jobs. Promotion into positions like detective were not open, or only open for the rare ones that caught the right persons attention or had some other pull (family, political, whatever) or the one who did 10x what their male colleagues did to show they were capable. Today those barriers are gone (going away?).
Yes, those 'barriers' are gone because female firefighters, soldiers, etc. are subject to lesser physical requirements than the men are. Hope you're not too fat for her to carry you out of the burning building.
The part that is difficult for me to grasp is why they want to be 50% of all the CEOs but not of all the Policemen. I mean it's very easy for me to explain (i.e. they want special treatment for themselves). But I'd love to see you struggling to explain to me why is that and not look ridiculously funny.
