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Your mistake in your argument is in assuming that making the choice to abdicate making decisions to lessen risk actually lessens the risk.

There is also the very solid argument to be made that by choosing to lessen risk, you stifle innovation and produce an overall much worse system in terms of beneficial outcomes.




The mistake in your argument is assuming people are good; they aren't, without oversight innovation isn't the result, scams are, by the truck load. The FDA exists to protect unwitting consumers from bad people, not to spur innovation. For every innovator freed by lack of regulation thousands of con men exist that'll flood the market with crap that hurts people, far more than any possible innovation is likely to save. Lessening risk is far more important than not stifling innovation because the simple indisputable fact is that bad people vastly outnumber innovative people.


Are regulators not people? Are they infallible? Are there no obvious market mechanisms that will punish con men peddling their inferior products?

Lessening risk is far more important than not stifling innovation

I don't think this unqualified statement makes sense. Shouldn't the opportunity cost of the benefits of innovations not produced, weighed against the risks present in allowing a market to produce them, play a factor? And this would no doubt be different for each and every possible innovation.


> Are regulators not people

No. They are robots. Robots that know better. How dare you ask such good questions! You now owe us 40$ for violating my authority citizen!

> Lessening risk is far more important than not stifling innovation

Again, would the OP rather live in a world with 100% risk, 100% innovation, or 0% risk, 0% innovation. I know what I'd choose. There's a pretty common theme in some sci-fis that living without risk isn't even life. Something to think about...


Doesn't 100% risk imply that we die immediately? Not really "living" then.


But the 100% innovation would fix that instantly... You broke my horrible if or else argument!

I took it more as being 100% responsible for your actions. But also yielding 100% control of those decisions/creations.

But your point stands. Both options yield death. One instant and real, the other grey and indifferent.


We don't all share your faith in the market; it's as simple as that. Until you understand that, you won't understand those who don't agree with you.

> I don't think this unqualified statement makes sense.

It wasn't unqualified, it had a context that you removed, I'm specifically talking about the medical market, not just any random innovation.


IMO gnaritas lacks the understanding I'm sure we both share in his reply to this message:

That con men don't disappear with regulations. They simply become regulators and monopolists.

> The mistake in your argument is assuming people are good

So let us give control over some people, to others! That fixes the problem with the human condition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_condition)...

> without oversight innovation isn't the result, scams are, by the truck load.

I'd take thousands of small, grassroot scams, that can be corrected through communal means (boycotting and community awareness) than by one huge one. If the Fed sanctions a pharmaceutical drug that kills thousands, is that worse than a few peddlers selling whatever drugs they want like what currently exists under the nose of the Fed? If you ask me, some illegal drugs are less harmful than legal ones! And that's pure free market with a dash of mafiosa government resistance (guns, extortion, other things to become powerful to fight the powerful).

> For every innovator freed by lack of regulation thousands of con men exist that'll flood the market with crap that hurts people, far more than any possible innovation is likely to save.

And yet, while the FDA didn't exist in the centuries preceding 1906, the formation of the FDA, we see innovations saving lives, and more and more people living meaningful existences. I doubt any community of people would be stupid enough to continue to consume harmful chemicals to degree that harms more than of it harms us now. These organizations exist, yet childhood obesity is the highest it's ever been. Americans consume alcohol, tobacco, fast food, and drugs live they always have. These things haven't be struck a blow one bit by regulation. They've simply become more expensive, and the big man in town takes their cut.

> Lessening risk is far more important than not stifling innovation because the simple indisputable fact is that bad people vastly outnumber innovative people.

Big red flag that we're not arguing with someone logical. "Bad people"... Like who? The Nazis? Or maybe the Jews? You can use this hatred/disgust/mistrust/contempt/negative energy for so much evil/bad/badder/worse!

Why is lessening risk more important that innovation? We've reduced a tremendous amount of risk in the last 100 years. From labour laws to life expectancy to homicide. Can we please stop feeling like we need bureaucrats to run our lives? I'd love to ask gnaritas whether they would prefer a society with no risk and innovation, or a society with massive risk and massive innovation. Arguing even for the status quo puts you in the more favourable side IMO at the get go.

I also love how they class people as either bad, or innovative, as I'm sure they dream of some sort of utopia where you either create something of worth before the age of 12, in which you would become a part of the ruling, innovative class, or not, in which case you are controlled by that class.

But yes gnaritas you're right. Please pass more laws, more regulations, and create more prisons and fines so we can deal with all of these bad people! In fact, I think I just violated regulation g.r.a. 101 - You cannot challenge the authority of someone who knows whats best for you!


> That con men don't disappear with regulations. They simply become regulators and monopolists.

I'm not sure that's the best way to get your agument taken seriously. The FDA are conmen now?


I'm just saying that powerful roles with attract power hungry people. Most regulation positions in banking and telecommunications are generally seated by previous company execs... So what's the difference in this particular regulatory body? I would definitely not make the blanket statement that MD's are always good people. I'm sure some can be pretty devious or ignorant to their (powerful) decisions.


Powerful roles do attract power hungry people. You know who else they attract? People who have some skills and want to put them to use for the betterment of society.

Not all policemen are corrupt, not all politicians are stooges, not all regulators are conmen. Quite often they are people who know how the system works and feel that they can bring their knowledge to bear to make it work better and ensure that things are done right.


I'm just critical of power and it's obligations. At many points in history, with enough power people can be made unaccountable. With less power, comes more accountability.

This is why personally I think it would be better if we released medicines and simply had "FDA approved" status post release/post approved by the institution, which would give people the choice to only use FDA approved products, but also give me the choice of utilizing other drugs I can research and make decisions about on my own.


Understood. That's a much more plausible view than your original posting.


He's an Ayn Rand worshipping objectivist, you can't reason with him. His view of people is as shallow as hers.


Not at all. You're the one who stated that people are inherently bad and that they need to be controlled. I don't agree with Ayn Rand at all.

I just believe in freedom and liberty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism.




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