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iPad Air (arstechnica.com)
168 points by druidsbane on Oct 22, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 279 comments



I really, really dislike how much hate there is in this thread. I feel like someone always ends up making similar comments every time there's a new launch from Apple/Microsoft/Google/whomever, and there is never any change. Do you guys get psyched about anything?

On the one end we have "Oh man, iPad air only has 1GB of RAM and 16GB of flash, how stupid" and on the other end we have "iPad hasn't cured cancer yet; would have expected more from Apple under Steve Jobs."

Has it occurred to people to like, take a step back for a moment and think about how amazing it is that we as a society have advanced to the point where we can even have something like iPad? The iPad, and devices like it, have done so much to enrich so many people's lives, and isn't that what we're about in this community? We're all trying to make people's lives better with computers, and Apple is as much a part of this mission as any of the people on this site.

Maybe it's easy to get karma by ranting and raving, especially on a site like this where controversy drives more upvotes than downvotes simply because more people have upvote-only privileges. But I want us to be better than this; I don't want this to be the norm for discussion in this community.


> Has it occurred to people to like, take a step back for a moment and think about how amazing it is that we as a society have advanced to the point where we can even have something like iPad? We're all trying to make people's lives better with computers, and Apple is as much a part of this mission as any of the people on this site.

Anyone who bleeds in six colors is quietly celebrating the achievements in this new launch; enriching and delighting lives with technology is exactly what they've always believed in.


I actually found that most of the 'hate' in this thread is in (what I see as useless) responses to (what I see as useful) criticism.

In turn I'm getting tired of these meta that comments discuss criticism, like yours. Yes I know, others will become tired of comments commenting on these meta comments, like mine, and ad infinitum. I think yours, mine and all these other meta comments have a point, but I don't see why it needs to be made every time.


The iPad to enrich people's live...

Sorry, but the iPad/tablets are mostly used for browsing, creating photos and using apps and games.

That's not really "enriching" life as i see it, it's a consumer device, not a production device... If you really want to make it enriching, make it non-obtrusive.

And i would feel sorry for those whose life really is enriched with a electronic device.


My dad is 79 years of age. He could never adjust to the digital world.

Something as simple as checking a hotmail account was out of his reach.

With his iPad he is able to:

- keep on touch with my expat brother

- see pictures of his grand kids on FB and emails

- catch up woth long lost fire do on FB

- read magazines without his glasses

...in general: just take part in the modern world as opposed to being an outsider.

If you pity him then your pity is misplaced because he is massively grateful to have a tool that enables him to commune with his kids and grand kids and to commune with us online.


Ditto. 88-year-old Dad finally got himself an ipad, after decades of wondering whether to get a PC (I got him an HP laptop a while back that he and my mom never quite took to).

Now he's an avid user. The tablet is a miracle of innovation. And the Kindle has enabled my mom to read again, with her macular degeneration.

Tens of millions of ordinary non-techies out there have transformed their lives by means of these gadgets.


I completely agree. The stream of never ending IT-related questions from my mum largely ended with the iPhone and iPad, and she's using functions and apps that I thought would be well beyond her.


My daughter can create music with Easy Beats 3, she likes the auto drumming thing in garage band because she can record her own songs. She also likes to paint pictures with Paper, she has hot own books so we can keep our drawing separate and so we can print them out or share them. Finally, she makes little animations with Hopscotch. While these are all creativity generators she and I both refer to them as games.

I do use the iPad for Flipboard and netflix and games but just as often when I reach for my ipad I reach for my stylus to draw or headphones to create a song. I know I'm n of one but one of the things I'm teaching the next generation is that this one thing is a tool that can adapt itself to almost all of her tasks in school and beyond, when she wants to play, when she wants to create or when she wants to learn in a non school context. I don't know if most people look at it that way, but those who do will have more opportunity than those who see devices purely for consumption.


You are probably the one that got it.

But none the less, although your examples are fine. If you want to really produce things like songs, you're going to use software like Ableton Live. Which aren't adjusted for tablets because of hardware (eg. a high quality audio card) or just don't deliver enough productivity.

I don't have any experience with drawings, but can you name someone who is well known that created their paintings/drawings with a tablet? I presume (except 3D artists, graphic designers), all of them are going for handmade stuff. The rest of them produces them with their computers.

And as you explained it, the drawings and the songs in this case are games, not suitable for production. Production takes days, not minutes. That's mostly the difference between consuming and producing things.

I do hope you or your daughter get more interested though, producing can be great.


I can't name anyone offhand that uses a tablet as primary, but anyone who produces with a computer very likely uses something like the Intuos5 drawing tablet. With a tool like Procreate or one of the Autodesk apps the only difference between drawing on a computer and drawing on a tablet is that with a tablet, the tablet directly connect your pen to the digital medium and you just need the stylus.

When it come to making music, absolutely - for professional grade content one would need to use proper tools. I'm barely an amateur and while I enjoy recording my songs and adding to them with garage band, I'm more interested in spending my precious free time doodling with sound than trying to make a living with it. It's better than watching commercials on network tv. Professional do use it for creating though: one example is this - http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/22/trent-reznor-... but there are other pros whom are turning to devices as a way to extend their creativity and enhance their performances. So, I believe that we are not far away from a device powerful enough to record, generate and mix professional quality sound for a fraction of what a recording studio of similar quality cost.

I do think I understand your position and you are likely correct. However there is this anecedal observation I have: people of my parents generation, when they use a smart phone; tablet or computer are very likely to consume with either email, web surfing or one variant of the addicting games that are free. However, being overly optimistic and observing my daughter and her peers as they grow up with device first and computer second I hope/believe/think (not sure if any of those words are correct but they are close) that they will have little choice but to learn to use it as the tool it is and push that to its limits and then extend it for their own purposes.

For the record, while I am an apple customer I'm under no illusion that their products are better or more successful than the other consumer electronics makers out there. It works for me and mine and that's why I stay with it. When it doesn't any more and I need to move on to something else, I'm glad there are robust ecosystems out there I can explore.


I agree on most points, my only argument is that the Intuos5 drawing tablet is developped for a defined action (drawing), where a normal tablet hasn't (allround device), their could be a future where the tablet is really used for producing things, but not today.

For the record, i'm not an Apple fan anymore . I've bought the iPhone 3GS and iPod 32 GB (the fat one) as an "early adapter" in the past and both products had disappointed me (software fault on the iPod's hard-drive firmware and failed support from Apple).

What's more, those costly Apple devices seemed the only electronic devices that haven't survived more then a year. For example, my HTC Desire (2010 - Cyanogenmod) still works as a charm, my primary phone is a S2 (bought somewhere in 2012 and yet again, Cyanogenmod) and i still have a Nokia 1100 (2004 and no Cyanogenmod :P) in my car just in case something would happen. Added bonus, that old phone had a flashlight ;-)


I don't think the huge number of severely disabled people, that use Apple products to greatly enrich their lives due to their best-in-class accessibility features, really need your pity all that much.

That's aside form the effect iOS is having on education. Just take a look at "Bobo Explores Light" and "Dragonbox", not to mention the dozens of Khan Academy videos my girls have watched on their iPad Minis. Then there's the times they do their homework with their Mini to hand so they can look up reference material on the web. And then there's bed time, when they often curl up in bed to read an iBook, often a free one from Gutenberg or elsewhere. They've read a lot of Kipling that way.


Education?

Why would you remember anything if you can just look it up on Google? :) - Google effects on the brain.

Why do you need to know spelling, if you have auto-correct on your device?

What did they do with the Khan Academy videos? Did they have a pen and paper with them? Or a pc to do things with it? Note stuff on it. Then they used their tablet to consume things and something else to produce things :)

Yeah, you can watch videos (consuming) to produce on something else :). You can learn by consuming, yes. I have never said otherwise.

PS. Reading is still consuming, watching videos (educational or not) is still consuming.

PS II. I know people get easier access to digital media with a tablet. In that way, it can be enriching.

But severly disabled people can (indeed) enrich their lives with a tablet. But it's still through consuming and not producing.

Heck, here was an article i read some years ago from someone who explains it better then me: http://impossiblehq.com/an-unexpected-ass-kicking


My mom uses her iPad to get in touch with her friends on Facebook. She uses it to Skype with her sister who lives in another country everyday. She enjoys browsing family photos and videos on her iPad. She enjoys reading stuff on the web using iPad.

She is 60 and she never learned to use PCs and laptops but she easily uses iPad for the things I mentioned.

iPad has definitely enriched her life.


Don't feel sorry for us, we are very happy :) I'm so happy when I can show my latest pictures to my grandma, read my comics (all in one device), or look up for questions I have / inspiration on internet... all of this I was doing before with different mediums (books, photo paper, dictionaries etc.). So yes it is enriching my life as I have so many things in one small device that I can look up in a few seconds and can carry around so easily.


By your definition of "enriching", 80% of the startups discussed on HN are not enriching anyone's lives.


Just 80%? I think you're being very generous. 95%? 98%?


You're being very generous, 99.9% is probably still too generous.


My standpoint on enriching lives was in case of producing.

Every startup is producing on a non-tablet (pc or laptop), perhaps they make things for tablets, sure.

My words were poorly chosen on the part of "enriching lives" through consuming, i agree.

Take off the last 2 lines of my sentence and it would be more clear what i meant.

A tablet is for consuming, not for producing. (taking pictures and putting a filter on it in 10 seconds is not producing, but consuming)

Every startup is producing things. 0% of the startups are producing their app/webapp/... with a tablet.

A tablet is created to consume, not to produce, that was the point i was trying to make :)


Which is probably true even on a more objective measurement of "enriching". Sturgeon's Law is always in effect.


My children have learned to read from iPad apps. That's as good as gold for me. Better, even.


A lot of here didn't really understand what i said, but that's kinda my fault.

All the responses seem to "consume" things, even though it could be articles, photos, news...

Perhaps my 2 last sentences where to much. But there is a difference between consuming and producing.

A tablet is for consuming, if you are enriching your life through consuming things (skype, facebook, articles, news, ...), then yeah. A tablet would be easier to do this.

But it's not for production and all of the examples you showed me are not for producing anything. It's merely for consuming things and i don't think creating a photo with some filters on it in 5 seconds is producing anything.

All the ones who are producing things (apps, books, ...), did a tablet really let you throw away your laptop or pc? (in my experience, it hasn't).

There is actually a "debate" going on because of this and i only showed my personal opinion. I even think that it started with this blogpost: http://impossiblehq.com/an-unexpected-ass-kicking . Read it, he sure as hell explained it better then me.

If i look at my mom, who hasn't been a pc fan ever.. She is an avid user of the tablet, but i don't see her producing anything. But yeah, she sure does consume a lot and it has helped her join the digital world..

If i would have known some people referenced their dads who haven't ever produced on a pc, i would have explained it differently... But hell, you can't say anything in a quick post, i presume.

Didn't mean to offend anyone. But i'll explain myself better in the future :)


Mostly...

The written word is mostly used for very boring or petty purposes.

That doesn't negate the existence or importance of literature.

"Mostly" is irrelevant. Most of the time an automated external defibrillator (AED) just sits on the wall, most of them are never used, ever. Nevertheless they save lives.

There's nothing tawdry or impure about someone's life being enriched by an ipad specifically. ipads, and other computers, allow people to learn, to connect, and to share. These are some of the most important and profound activities any human being is capable of. Is it pitiful for someone to be enriched by reading a book? Pitiful for someone to be enriched by sending or receiving love letters? Pitiful for someone to be enriched by being able to share their expertise or enthusiasm in a subject with others?


That's not really "enriching" life as i see it followed by more patronising rubbish. Just because something doesn't meet your needs, circumstances or prejudices it must be worthless? Oddly, I had exactly the same reaction to your opinions.


One of the more interesting aspects of this is that they're keeping the iPad 2 at $399 (compared to the Air's $499). I can't imagine the value proposition for a new iPad 2 is at all attractive at that price point (I bought mine used for ~$250 last summer.)


This is definitely for enterprise and school purchases. We have an educational app, Kodable, and a huge number of our users are still on iPad 2s. When you buy in volume, that extra $100 goes a long way, and, for better or worse, schools and enterprise don't always want cutting edge tech.


My 5 year old really loves playing Kodable. Congrats on creating a educational game.


So glad to hear it!!


I see it as an anchoring point, to move users upstream. For $100, you can have the newest technology. Perhaps we will see an iPad C next time around.


There are a ton of vertical applications (think industrial/manufacturing, etc.) built on an iPad2 plus purpose-built case with sensors, etc.

The margins will only get better on the older hardware, and there's no way they'd walk away from that stream.


Maybe some kind of appeal to institutional buyers who want that form factor (and maybe the old port / shape) to keep their fleet of device consistent? Maybe just a lot of extra components / panels for that design?


Yes, it's there to extract money from institutions that are stuck with 30-pin charging/management configurations.


It's a crummy product, but if they put a better product at that price point, it would take too many sales away from the $499 one.


They did put a better product at that price point -- the new iPad Mini.


It surprises me that they've just ditched the iPad 3/4 altogether from the comparison page, though they still sell refurbished iPad 4s for $379 in the store.

It seems to me that this is to put a floor under the second hand value; in terms of bang-for-the buck, the right price for a used iPad 2 should really be about $175 by now, but it's rare to see one under $200.

One reason the iPad 2 remains attractive to many (especially musicians) is that peripherals - there hasn't been that much take-up of Apple's Lightning connector by people who make add-on hardware.


I think keeping the iPad2 as an entry level iPad is fine, the problem is the price imo. I got my iPad2 for about that price a year ago... But then again, Apple is known to do that..the outgoing Mac Pro is pretty overpriced given how outdated the hardware has become.


they've done it for the ipad mini and the macbook pro as well. their product line involves one retina and one non retina model ( except for the iphone). i believe it's done that way purely because it's easier to explain to people when it's consistent. next year will probably see the switch to pure retina across all product lines.


Can someone explain to me the obsession with "thinner"? This model is 2mm thinner and it's touted as taking "years of work". Lighter, I understand. Thin is a good goal, but 2mm is pretty pointless when you're just going to put a 5-10mm thick cover/case on it anyway.


The modern electronic gadget focus on "thinner" is similar in thought to the "longer, lower, wider" focus of cars from the late 40s and 50s. It gives marketers and salespeople something to talk about. Customers want to hear about "What's new" and not about a perfectly serviceable alternative that has been on the market for years.

For six years of my life I owned a Snap-on Tools franchise. Every week people would jump on the truck and ask "what's new?" and then purchase the same sockets that have been made for 90+ years. "Thinner" is just the latest talking point. If it wasn't "thinner" it would be something else. I would see my customers on a weekly schedule, and I was asked "what's new" 100 times a week. If a marketer wanted to give me the words to tell the people who asked that question, then I would gratefully accept as a salesperson, unless I could think of something that would work better.

If you would like a thin case, I am getting this rolling http://sascase.com Apologies for the blatant self promotion.


"Thinner" is also a good sales talking point because unless you know a lot about computer hardware it sounds self-evidently better. Why wouldn't you want something you carry around to be easier to carry? To the average person it's a no-brainer, because they don't connect "thinner" to things like "smaller battery you have to pay $100 to have pried out when it dies."


That's the argument I make when people say my Lumia 920 is too thick and too heavy compared to their iPhone or Galaxy, then proceed to take the case off their phone to show me the difference. The real difference is, my Lumia has been naked since day 1, and dropped many times over. It's a Nokia. Yeah, it's thick and heavy compared to an iPhone, but it also doesn't need a case. An iPhone with a normal case is thicker and heavier.


Nice anecdotal strawman, so here's my contrary experience: I have owned iphones and android devices and never encased them nor broken them.


Anecdotal strawman? It's hardly anecdotal to say that the Lumia, being made of solid polycarbonate plastic, can withstand impacts more than an iPhone made of glass and rigid metal. There are multiple YouTube tests that show how much force a Lumia 920 can withstand without breaking. Your example is an anecdote, since there are many forms of proof that the iPhone is quite fragile as well as, for example, the Nexus 4. (anecdote: I shattered my Nexus 4 dropping it from a window sill onto carpet)

Likewise, how is it a strawman? The original comment was that the person doesn't care about thinner because it becomes thicker when you put a case on it. A phone that doesn't need a case need only be thinner than a comparable phone with a case on it to be thinner in practice. That's a direct response to the original comment, providing a case where the comment is true.

So you don't have a case and you protect your phone quite well. That is a pure anecdote. Just because you want it to be an anecdotal strawman doesn't mean it is one.


The screen of pretty much all smartphones/tables nowadays are made of tempered aluminosilicate glass.

One of the properties of tempered glass is that it can withstand great impact on the front, but can shatter if dropped on the side. If you look closely at those Youtube videos, they will all probably be hitting the glass dead center. If you want to see a smartphone shatter, look for a video where the brunt of the impact is focused on one edge of the glass. Like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Nyr...


You said that people often comment on how your phone is too thick, and then take the case off their phone to compare the size. The story characterizes the owners of those phones as imbeciles. This is the strawman anecdote I was referring to.

You also say that iPhones need cases, which is not true.


The person I responded to said iPhones need cases. I was just agreeing with him.

And the story I told is called "storytelling". It's a way to emphasize a point that's entertaining to read. Point 1: people use cases on their iPhone. Point 2: the Lumia is thinner than an iPhone with an average case. Point 3: The iPhone is thinner without a case. There's your facts, without entertaining storytelling.


I think you just strawmanned his argument...


If only my Motorola Atrix was so strong.... sob weep The glass was in a thousand pieces after hitting tarmac.


same here


The ideal of a self-effacing tool that disappears in every way physically manageable. A weightless window that is, physically, almost not there at all. The antithesis of a heavy brick that never lets you forget its physical dimensions. That is the ideal Apple inches toward.

Many people use these devices without cases, as they were designed to be used. Some don't, for reasons that make sense for them. Many will appreciate the less obtrusive dimensions. Others will never give a crap. Can you explain an obsession with sweets to someone without a sweet tooth? As usual in threads like this, people argue about idiosyncratic tastes.


Totally agree with this. In the keynote they played one of their new ads like they normally do, with the usual monologue from Jony Ive and he said something like "It's difficult to make something smaller AND more powerful at the same time" Well... stop trying to make it smaller then. Would prefer bigger improvements in battery life or performance or some new feature over a 2mm gain of um... space...


Whereas the massive weight reduction is what will enable me to buy an iPad air instead of an iPad mini.

The larger device is far more usable for collaborative work than the mini, and the weight difference makes it far more portable.


My obsession with thin is because of my bike bags. Long time MacBook Pro user (3 diff models), bought a 2013 MacBook Air and now it's nothing to throw it into my bag(s) and schlep it around.


Thin isn't what matters there though - it could be an inch thick and would fit just as well. Weight and overall size (i.e. the diagonal) matter.


>Can someone explain to me the obsession with "thinner"?

To explain this to you one would have to explain the concept of marketing.


Considering the battery they need to power that hardware, while getting that battery life, getting it that thin is a big deal.


The parent commenter isn't arguing the engineering feats required to achieve the extra bit of "thin-ness"; They're asking why that extra 2mm is so desirable in the first place. At the risk of sounding small-minded, I really don't see why today's phones and tablets should need to be much thinner than they already are. Sure, keep miniaturizing the internal components, but use the saved space for extra battery cells or storage. I'm not trying to fit a second phone in my pocket.


[deleted]


You're talking about weight, which the comment in question acknowledged as desirable.


I don't case my Mini, and the thin-ness versus a regular iPad is a huge difference when using it as a tablet.


I've wondered this for years as well. I would much rather see improvements in other areas then constant boasts about "thinnest" XYZ product.


Exactly. I have a thin Nexus 4, but I have to carry a chunky extra USB battery because a) no replaceable battery and b) thin built in battery doesn't last long enough (yes, this is also Android's fault but that's not my point)


It's not only about being thin, but making it light as well. Making it thicker and same weight and/or heavier is noticeable to more potential customers than even more CPU performance.


I find it slightly odd that Apple goes into a decent amount of technical detail on the processor in the iPad - calling out the number of registers and transistors - but still doesn't ever disclose how much RAM is in the thing. This is especially vexing, as my biggest complaint with my current iPad is that it doesn't have enough of it.


They aren't trying to inform you of useful specs, they are trying to wow you and make you think this thing is new and revolutionary. If they don't mention the RAM, then they probably haven't upgraded it.


> If they don't mention the RAM, then they probably haven't upgraded it.

Apple have never mentioned the amount of RAM in any iOS device.


They have actually, I think at least a couple of times with the 3GS and then the 4, when they said they "doubled the memory". But not sure if they said exactly how much that was, but everyone knew how much they had before anyway, so it was easy to guess.


Thats also why the Ipad1 now crashes on almost every app now - just has 256 megs of ram.


The iPad 1 still runs a surprising number of modern apps. My son plays newish games like Angry Birds Star Wars 2 or Asphalt Heat 7 without crashes or minimal lag. Not bad for a 4 year old device with only 256 Megs of RAM.

I'm not sure what apps you're running, but I haven't had the same experience. If the app can be downloaded from the store and doesn't prevent you from opening it on older devices (ex: CSR Classic) it'll run just fine.


The browser on my iPad 1 crashes constantly now (running the newer OS). Are you running iOS5 or the OS it came with? Do you do much web browsing on it?


Me too and this is frustrating. With 64bit processor we would expect bigger ram since data grow it's size. 1GB seems too small and I fear I'll hit the memory size wall again too soon. May be the next iPad will have a bigger ram.


Good point. I haven't done much browsing on it in a while, it's mostly used for my son's apps. I'll need to play around with that a bit. It's running the OS 5.1.1.


I experience the same crashing issues. Usually with Safari.

It's ok though. It's a 4 year old device I've used literally every day since launch day. I'm pretty ok with how far its gotten me and am surprised it has survived given how much abuse I throw at it.


My iPad 1 has been basically a brick for awhile.


My wife's iPad 1 still works great, and I honestly can't remember the last time it crashed.


You must not have upgraded to ios 6. Otherwise even opening the app store, or loading theverge.com in safari cause reproducible crashes for me. Goodreader is the only app that still appears to work reliably - albeit much slower than it used to be.


The processor is Apple's own design and its performance is a distinguishing feature. RAM is commodity tech, and Apple will never pick a number that makes everyone happy. I agree that it'd be nice to get that number, but I can also see which one a marketer would rather feature.


ARM and Samsung probably get a little credit for the processor too.


No, Samsung shouldn't get a little credit here. Does Foxconn get credit for the Xbox 360?


The 5/5s have 1GB, I would expect the new iPads to come in at the same.


Though you're probably right, iPads have had 1GB of RAM since the iPad 3.


No TouchID? Surprised they'd introduce a new feature on their premium phone and not include it on the (currently) premium iPads, especially since the other 5s hardware (motion coprocessor, 64-bit architecture) has been carried over.

I would have thought they'd want to build a basic foundation for the future, e.g. "all devices better than the 5s include 64 bit, motion, and TouchID". When you vary on a feature (like TouchID), you discourage people from building cutting-edge experiences that require it.


Touch ID sensors are supply constrained and putting it on more things than the 5s wouldn't help.


Probably the most logical answer to the question. Sometimes in the midst of all the speculation we forget about the simplest explanations.


Well, TouchID has no API, so it's not like third parties can build cutting-edge experiences on top of that either way.


Yet. It's much easier to upgrade software than hardware.


I agreed 100%. I'm assuming that it will come next year (or whenever) when/if they have multi-user support in iOS. Scan your finger, get logged in as your user.


I don't think that they'll add multiuser support because then the incentive for e.g. each family member getting their own idevice would be less. instead people might get a family ipad...


The benefit from having multiple iPads is that multiple people can use theirs at once. Multi-user doesn't help that fact, you end up with a family iPad that's just shared without separate user accounts.


Mostly agree - although you can only use TouchID now to unlock your phone and buy stuff from Apple. So I think they probably want to give it a year out in the wild to see exactly how secure it is, so they can then unleash it with an API to developers.

That's my hunch.


It's also not as useful on a tablet, so there's less hurry.

A phone is often in public spaces, and unlocked dozens of times a day. That's rare for a tablet.


I think TouchID is way more useful on the phone which you unlock tens of times daily vs the iPad which maybe you unlock once or twice depending on your usage.


So their new commercial for the iPad focuses on the fact that so many people use it for productivity, so why can't Apple create a decent, first-party pressure sensitive stylus, so we don't have to deal with expensive, clunky, third-party solutions.


There are quite a few third-party styli available for purchase. Apple doesn't want to include one because they don't want developers assuming the user has a stylus, and thus, crafting interfaces that require that level of precision. The iPad/iOS is about touch.

If the argument is that Apple should build one, but not include it by default, specifically for people who need one, I guess the response is "Why bother?"


A stylus for a capacitive touch screen needs to be deeply integrated to work well - i.e. it needs some sensors along with the screen to anchor its position, simply because capacitive screen don't work well with pointy counterparts. That's why the stylus of MS surface is way better than any third party solution for iPad as far as I understand.

IMO Apple should integrate appropriate sensors and release an API for stylus makers or create it as an accessory themselves. I've bought two iPads since its initial release, and they work very well for me for some light browsing, but in order to integrate it into my workflow it'd have to become better at note taking.

I loved the MS Courier concept, it's too bad they instead created a solution that does everything, but nothing really well - you can either have desktop OneNote that only works with a stylus or mobile OneNote with nowhere near the features you'd need. Apple's iPad apps tend to have exactly the features you need except stylus support - so there's that.


Obviously because Apple does not want you to use a stylus with it. Or perhaps, they don't want to be the ones to tell you that you could use a stylus with it if you wanted. They want to perpetuate the idea that it's self contained; a stylus would contradict that.


The iPad doesn't have the same finger+stylus sensor tech that other tablets like the Samsung and Microsoft ones have. A real stylus simply won't work on an iPad because the iPad lacks the technology. So, as much as Apple says the iPad is for creative productivity, you won't find professionals using it like this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/22/the-ms-surface-pro


Jobs was strongly against the stylus and famously said something like "God gave us 10 styluses at birth". Maybe part of his legacy is a company filled with people having the same opinion.


Steve Jobs isn't working at Apple anymore. He was great for Apple, but they aren't obligated to agree with every idea that he ever had, and integrate them into their business model.

He has often said that he thought something was stupid. More often than not, at the time he said these things, he was right. He once disliked the entire idea of the tablet, because the technology hadn't matured enough to deliver a positive experience for the customer. Long after he criticized tablets, he introduced the iPad to the world. It doesn't mean he's a hypocrite, it just means that the technology matured enough to change his mind.

Its hard to argue that Wacom technology isn't sufficiently mature, and there is clearly a market for such a thing. Art and note-taking apps are wildly popular. Both would be significantly enhanced by the presence of a true touch-sensitive stylus.

Apple didn't intend for the iPad to be a content creation device, but now they seem to be embracing it as such, because that's what many customers want to do with it.

If a person never changes his mind about anything, that person has stopped learning.


Yeah, and we learn to finger-paint very early, it being quite intuitive and all... but then we grow up and the overwhelming majority of people learn to use writing implements (and other such tools of numerous sorts). I haven't been able, nor wanted to, turn in finger-painted work since early elementary school. Adults use pens (and other such) to write, as well they should, since doing so increases the efficiency of complex output from mind to page.


And the iPad is growing up too, and can extend itself into new kinds of usage with new, _supplementary_ kinds of input.


Steve Jobs said it best: "if you see a stylus, they blew it."


That statement gets used a lot to downplay the concept of a stylus, and in that context it is flatly incorrect to be blunt. Viewing it that ways makes the assumption that you intent to use a stylus as a finger replacement. The finger and the stylus are different input devices with different levels of ease of use and accuracy. It is wrong to assume they are meant to accomplish the same tasks. No device should be limited to either one... finger or stylus. I use the stylus to draw on my Surface and quite frankly I love what it allows me to do. But when I go back to surfing, fingers all the way.


Lets pretend paper is the leading technology for communication. The leader in the paper industry thinks you should write/draw with your finger. You have ten of them.

But, some people, need more precision than a human finger allows. They use an object with a finer point than our fingers. But, the rest of us are okay with just finger painting. The paper was designed to be large enough for fingers to use.

It would be nice to sometimes use a different input method on paper when the finger won't cut it. I see nothing wrong with having more than one input method. There is no right or wrong way.


Steve Jobs also said you'd have to sharpen your fingers to use a tablet smaller than the full-sized iPad. :)


Maybe Steve Jobs was wrong.

Ship it without a stylus. Require that all apps be usable with fingers. Make a sweet pressure-sensitive stylus available for extra precision. Everyone wins.


Plenty of third parties already filling that space - I don't think Apple sees the need to move in that direction.


They are doing a piss poor job of filling that space because all they can do is work within the limitations of the capacitive touch screen and/or the wireless capabilities of the device. If Apple implemented a proper digitizer, it would be far better than any third party solution.


He was talking about driving the interface. The iPad has been designed from the ground up with capactive touch so that you can navigate an iPad with your fingers. Adding a pen digitiser changes nothing.


For core usage he was right, but: I'll bet you Steve owned a pen. I'll bet you it was great. And I'll bet you he used it a lot.


Steve Jobs also said you'd write your apps for the iPhone using JavaScript. Or that you don't need multitasking.

Here's the thing, it's not the stylus that is the problem. It's the dependency on a stylus. There is a difference between doing it, and doing it right.


I would wager that Steve Jobs was not very interested in drawing or painting. I'll bet he would understand someone who was into drawing and painting who used a stylus, especially a pressure sensitive stylus.


Why do you think that an Apple stylus would be any less expensive or clunky?


Because every other tablet pc/tablet with a integrated pressure-sensitive stylus is much better than anything released thus far for the iPad by third parties.


Samsung and Microsoft license Wacom digitizer technology for their stylus tablets. It's not just that they provide a stylus--the tablet itself has additional capacitive sensors. Apple would have to totally re-engineer their touch sensor to accomodate that.

The reason iPad styluses have fat tips is that they have to simulate a fingertip, which is the only thing that an iPad can sense. The tradeoff is that an iPad is faster and more accurate at sensing fingers than other tablets.

Wacom has released a pressure-sensitive stylus for iPad. I have not tried it though...not much of an artist.


> the tablet itself has additional capacitive sensors.

Inductive, actually, which is why the stylus doesn't need to have a big fat tip.

Wacom also make a stylus for the iPad, which obviously has to be capacitive rather than inductive. I think it has batteries in it and sends tip pressure information to the iPad over Bluetooth.

(How the inductive sensing works: You have some conductive loops behind the display, and in the pen there is a ferrite rod with a conductive coil around it together with a capacitor to make a resonant circuit. You pass an alternating current at approximately the resonant frequency through some of the loops; it couples to the pen circuit by electromagnetic induction, the pen circuit resonates, and for a short time it produces, by induction again, a signal in all the other conducting coils behind the display. How much signal depends on the position and angle of the coil in the pen. If you have enough loops behind the display you can work out where the pen tip is accurately enough to draw with it. The capacitor in the resonant circuit is variable and adjusted by the tip pressure, and small changes in the resonant frequency produce phase changes in the signal that comes back, so you can measure the tip pressure too. Similar technology is used in some interactive whiteboards.)


The digitizer is actually a separate layer in most cases. There are lots of products that have both a digitizer and a capacitive touch layer. The lack of a digitizer isn't what makes the iPad more responsive. If Apple wanted to do it, it would be trivial.

Wacom fucked up this particular product, because they opted to use a large rubber tip. It might be more precise than a normal dumb stylus, but its still terrible. Trying to write like a normal person, or draw thin lines is absolutely horrible with a fat-tipped stylus.


I think the large rubber tip is not optional, as the iPad sensor is looking for a particular shape: a fingertip.


Right. It was never debatable whether or not the current iPad has a digitizer. It doesn't. I'm just saying if they are starting to embrace productivity, they should have added one.

The current iPad has a capacitive touch screen, that's why the current styli use a large tip, the stylus isn't replicating a pen, its replicating a fingertip. That's why they all suck. Its hard to write / draw with your finger, so until we stop making styli that replicate fingers, note taking and drawing on the iPad are going to be suboptimal.


Lighter. Faster. More magical.

Sigh.

Disappointing. What happened to doing something revolutionary? Where is the the text input? Apple are driving by creatives. When can I write my book on my Apple tablet?

And what's with the 16gb model. As they said, it has been almost 4 years now. And the 16gb model persists.


My, how entitled we are! Your priorities may differ from the tens of millions who have bought these, the most popular tablets in the world. Apple is making safe, welcome changes to their products, which is something you can do in times of plenty. Personally, I will be happy to have an iPad that lasts longer, doesn't take ages to turn a page in a high-rez PDF, and is half a pound lighter.

What happened to doing something revolutionary? Lord! Do it yourself! Who says you can't write a book? And why do you have to do it on an iPad? Why not a Surface or whatnot, if that's your priority? Why not a MacBook Air or ultrabook? Your complaints infuriate me!


Apple is making safe, welcome changes to their products, which is something you can do in times of plenty.

Apple is also the company that made risky, aggressive bets cannibalizing their own products during times of plenty and was highly praised for doing so. (I speak of the iPod) I'm not surprised when people wish to see that kind of movement again.


What product(s) did they cannibalize with the iPod?


OP may have meant iPhone, but the best example is the iPod -> iPod Mini, as well as the iPod Mini -> iPod Nano. Both products were flying off the shelves and racking up massive sales when Apple undercut themselves with the cheaper product (the Mini) or completely replaced it with a radically different form factor (the Nano).

In both cases it seemed like money on the table, but in both cases the products became the core of Apple's product offering and dramatically out-sold their predecessors.


I think the poster meant how the iPhone cannibalized the iPod.


There is nothing particularly brave about cannibalizing a rather cheap product (iPod) with an insanely more expensive one (iPhone), that also turns out to become obsolete much more quickly. I should know: I bought one iPod Nano and my sister-in-law is still using it today, however I'm on my third iPhone already.

The iPad Mini cannibalizing the iPad, or the iPad cannibalizing the MacBook are much bolder moves. That iPad Mini Retina does look good...


Yup, and also how successive generations of the iPod blew the previous generations out of the water, again and again.


My, how entitled we are!

Lord! Do it yourself!

Your complaints infuriate me!

It feels like at some point the quality of the discourse on hackernews went downhill.


If I took the meat out of the sandwich, the sandwich would go downhill, too. Selectively quoting just the crust of a comment and loudly disclaiming about the quality of the discourse - possibly you're right about the quality, but if so then I'm exhibit A, and you're exhibit B.


Making small, iterative upgrades to a product is fine, but then you shouldn't post it on Hacker News like it's something important.


a) Apple didn't post this, an interested user did. b) It's interesting to hackers and has plenty of upvotes. c) To a lot of people using this site, it is something important.


a) Never claimed they did, b1) that's debatable b2) my comment tried to say that maybe it shouldn't be upvoted c) each to their own


a) No, you merely insinuated it, b1) no, the 210 [at time of writing] make it a substantiated fact, (b2) who do you think you are to suggest whether or not some votes for a article. It's how the set works. Don't like the article, don't click the link it really is that simple, (3) absolutely. It would've helped if you'd applied tha before posting first.


What's worthy of posting here? I'm not sure what "10x founders" like you expect to get from hanging out here for multiple years.


Apple were special when they innovated. There is iteration, but no innovation.


> Why not a Surface or whatnot, if that's your priority?

Oh, that'd what I'd been planning to do. Only it turns out that the battery only lasts 6hrs, compared to 12hrs in the otherwise comparable MBA :(


So their 'non-revolutionary' changes have somehow produced a better product for you than their competitors?


I, for one, and shocked.


1 lbs for a 10" tablet is not revolutionary?

Plenty of people are writing books on Apple tablets, it's easy to attach a keyboard and many do. Or maybe you meant that as a non sequitur?


> 1 lbs for a 10" tablet is not revolutionary?

It's a welcome incremental upgrade, but that's not what most people would consider revolutionary. The 10" Sony tablet is 1.09 pounds.

Revolutionary would be something like eye tracking and constant voice input to make it possible to do completely hands-free usage.


Kindle HDX 8.9" a similar size, but 0.82 lbs (20% lighter)


The display area is significantly smaller in Kindle. Try to calculate. I get 45 sq in for iPad, 36 sq in for Kindle.


But that's hardly revolutionary, given that the HDX is ~20% smaller.


I'm impressed that Apple got the weight down to 1lb, but shrinking the size of a consumer electronics device is par for the course, not really something that I would consider "revolutionary."


Yeah, and my Hyundai Santa Fe is 20% larger than a Honda Civic, which clearly makes it better.


And if anyone had said the Kindle was better, this snark would be relevant. But this is clearly a discussion of tablets' weight and whether the iPad Air's weight is a significant advance.


The weight does not exist in a vacuum. It has to be evaluated in light of not just the other specs, but also the user experience.

Think about this: if the Honda Civic was upgraded to be able to do everything my SUV can, including towing, off-roading, cargo capacity, and overall comfort, but its size AND price stayed the same, would that not be considered revolutionary?


I guess that is a reasonable argument, but it was not at all what I got from your original post. Obviously all the features must be considered in concert under the umbrella of "user experience" but that is also nearly impossible to discuss as everyone's experience is personal and difficult to express. I don't think the iPad shaving off 200g is anywhere near upgrading a Civic to be able to do everything my SUV can for the same price and size, but I can see someone thinking that.


Weight clearly exists in a vacuum. Weight doesn't exist without gravity, because weight is mass times 9.8 m/s^2.

Signed, Physics pedant.


> Revolutionary would be something like eye tracking and constant voice input to make it possible to do completely hands-free usage.

Ah, I see. "Revolutionary" is a code-word for "gimmick which will not work properly, but will look good in the marketing". As in "Siri is revolutionary".


I know at least 2 people who'd love to have the option to buy Wacom pens for iPads. Right now it doesn't really work unless you use some very hacky solutions. I wish Apple supported pressure sensitive pens.

I'n also still hoping for an 11"-12" 16:9 iPad Pro (they can just make it longer like they did with the iPhone 5 that comes with a keyboard. It should basically be an iPad laptop (not hybrids, no point) that costs $700, and comes with a new A8 processor in spring, or at least A7X, and maybe 64 GB by default.


Have you seen http://intuoscreativestylus.wacom.com/en/ ? No idea how well it works, but might be just what they need.


Yeah, it might be pressure sensitive, but I doubt it's anywhere as close to accurate as active digitizer pens. It looks like a capacitive pen with a thick rubber tip, so I doubt it's much more useful than a $20 capacitive stylus.


>>still hoping for an 11"-12" 16:9 iPad Pro

Personally I was hoping for two products; a retina iPad with 11"-13" screen -- and a Macbook Air with the same screen!

(If they could reuse the screen and electronics it wouldn't be expensive, but drivers etc would hardly be easy to move over processor architecture?)


Great idea - the top half of the computer is an 11" iPad that detaches from an 11" MacBook Air (keyboard part only) - could be awesome, especially if Remote Desktop worked via Wifi... Software integration would need loads of thought though, as would the hinge/detachment mechanism!


If you look back at their last decade or so, Apple only rarely releases revolutionary things. The bulk of Apple product releases have been incremental upgrades. We just forget about those more easily.


Revolutions are notable because of their rarity. Were they commonplace they would be "events". 10, 20 years ago these incremental changes would indeed have seemed revolutionary but now they are just "boring upgrades". Anyway, all these "lack of innovation, where is the revolution" comments are really just Apple haters complaining that there is nothing sexier for Samsung or Microsoft to copy.


It's 2013 and most people's data is in the cloud rather than on local devices?

Just because something is capable of doing something doesn't mean it should. A Truck is capable of street racing, but you'd be better off in an actual racing car. Make devices for specific use cases, not for everything. That's how you end up with Windows 8.


Games can easily kill 16GB of storage, no matter what other media you might have on the device, and apps in general are bigger than they used to be with Retina resources. And "the cloud" really does me no good on a plane or a road trip or anywhere else fast wifi may not be available.

16GB is small enough to require active storage management, even for fairly casual users. It's becoming a real issue.


…hence why larger sizes are available?


If Boeing made a jet that everyone over 4' tall had to bend in half to sit in, would you say "hence why larger sizes are available"?

16GB iPads are a poor (or at least mediocre) user experience, even for ordinary users. It's contrary to Apple's ethos to continue making them at all.

It's even sillier when you consider that everything else about the baseline $499 model has been drastically improved several times over since 2010, and Apple has taken steps that clearly reduced the utility of the 16GB baseline (retina graphics, full HD video).

32GB should be the new $499 baseline. It's way past time.


Ahah, the mythical ordinary user.

I know some users. I don't know if they are ordinary. I think they are. My parents in their 50's. A grandmother of 80. Some friends which are 30 with a very average computer literacy.

Every one of them took fast with the iPad (that's how Apple is good), but no one of 'em'll fill 16gb of space.


I have a similar set of "ordinary users".

They've all had storage issues on 16GB.


Anecdotes are such an awesome way to evaluate market data.


It's not data that fills the iPad, it's the all those 2048x1536 resources.

Retina apps are big, and are the reason why my iPad 2 is stuck on iOS 5 and that I've not upgraded a lot of apps. They're too big.


Yes, it's 2013 and both Verizon and ATT are still charging $50/month for 5GB. Until unlimited plans at reasonable prices become available, cloud+mobile is useless to me and it'd be more affordable to store media on my device instead of streaming it.


T-Mobile may work for your use case (if you're in a coverage zone), with 5GB of their 4G and unlimited EDGE (it was good enough for the original iPhone which relied exclusively on HTML5 apps, right?) for $30/mo prepaid. I don't know how well the iPad works on T-Mobile's network though, YMMV.


Yeah, I'd love T-Mobile, but pretty much every friend/coworker who uses T-Mobile complains about coverage. It's apparently pretty dismal in my area (North Jersey/Hudson Valley.)


Stream a couple HD movies. There goes your 5GB.


So god forbid you watch your movies on the go in SD in order to eke out a few extra showings. 5GB is still worlds better than AT&T offers, and there's still unlimited EDGE.


Stream 3 SD movies and there goes your 5GB.

EDGE is not remotely useful in the context of this conversation, I have no idea why you keep bringing it up. The only thing you might possibly hope to stream at EDGE speeds is audio, video is simply not an option. And (re-)installing apps of any substantive size is likewise impractical.

I am in no way ignorant of the mobile data options available to me in the United States. I simply know them to be an utterly inadequate to substitute for adequate local storage, and I can't even begin to understand how you consider them to be otherwise. Feels like you're just here to shill for T-Mobile.


Which why it's awesome that it's 2013 and anywhere worth being has WIFI.


I don't understand why you would want to write your book on a tablet. Sounds counterintuitive. Why not just use a real keyboard and OS on a Macbook Air? They are marginally thicker than the iPad.


Why not just use a goddamn type writer? Man I love typing on those things. I still write up my programming assignments on it just to hear the clickity clackity.

Computer Science in hard mode: Do your programming assignments on a type writer. Once.


Hmm, I thought hard mode was toggling the program in using the switches on the front panel. After you translated to machine code.


In place editing? Instant copying/backup? I feel your analogy is a bit broken.


Poor analogy. I already said that a Macbook is almost just as thin and light, with a superior OS and input mechanism. Tablets were never intended to be the next generation of word processing devices.


> Tablets were never intended to be the next generation of word processing devices.

sigh If only that we're true. iWork for iPad was announced at the first iPad announcement.


Wasn't much of an analogy at all, just felt like it was an appropriate time to voice my love for type writers.


I'm sure they have some real 'revolutionary' products on the road map, but from a business standpoint, why change what they are doing? They are profitable with their current product releases because of their crazy following. Small iterations to their technology that (my guess) cost very little but they can sell at a higher margin? Money in the bank. That 16gb HD is to make sure you pay them monthly for your necessary iCloud space. We are slaves to the Apple ways!

I'm sure we'll see something in the next year or two that is actually brand new that's not just a small upgrade to their current line up.


I acknowlledge your point that people only innovate when they really NEED it. That's why disruptive innovation comes from more downtrodden companies. But apple is famous for the opposite of this. That even when at the top, they keep innovating to REMAIN at the top. And that is why its always a let down to see a new product with no innovation


> Where is the the text input? Apple are driving by creatives. When can I write my book on my Apple tablet?

Er, attach a keyboard to it? What were you expecting, mind-reading?


Possibly a top-notch first-party keyboard from Apple that turns the iPod into more of a laptop form factor when you want to use it as such. The kind of thing Microsoft is doing with the Surface. As much as Windows RT is pretty useless, the Surface keyboard is a really nice piece of kit.


There are already very good third-party solutions (though the better ones tend to be expensive); not sure why Apple making one would make a huge practical difference.


Tried a Bluetooth keyboard? I have a cheap Chinese knock-off of an Apple keyboard and it works fine. In fact, when using my Motorola Xoom, I use the Bluetooth keyboard plenty when typing because a) typing on a screen is really slow and b) the onscreen keyboard isn't the most responsive in the universe, particularly when in a busy browser.


Okay. Looks good.

Recently, Apple seems big on iteration and small on innovation. Miniaturising an existing product is definitely a good iteration, but when I see Microsoft experimenting with touch covers and the like, I do wish Apple would try one or two new things again.


I think TouchID and the new Mac Pro are quite innovative in their functionality and design.


The Mac Pro is over a year old now. And touch id has been around in some form for years. Both are nice, though neither is very revolutionary.


Huh? The new Mac Pro isn't even available for sale yet. That revolution design was only announced at WWDC a few months back. Are you sure you are not confusing it with the MacbookPro?


Erm, yup. You're right; I was thinking of the Macbook Pro. I think I've put a mental block on the Mac Pro, but that's due to my use cases for a computer having no intersections with the Mac Pro's use cases.

That said, calling it revolutionary seems a bit much - the form factor is certainly new and unique, but none of its components (or its roles) are distinct from that of the previous Mac Pros. Certainly not on the scale of differences between the original iPad and its competitors at the time, or the iPhone, or the iPod.

It could safely be argued as a simple iteration on the PC's form factor.


If your bar is so high that the new Mac Pro's case is not called "innovative" I don't know what to tell you. It is almost self evidentially a out-of-the-box, non incremental approach to how to design the case of a desktop machine. You can decide you don't like it, but it's clearly innovative.


Consider that Apple is significantly more secretive than other companies. They probably have all sorts of crazy technologies cooking up in their labs.


Touch covers are a bad idea. That's why Apple isn't fooling around with them.


How can the iPad 5 have x2 the graphics power over the iPad 4, when the iPad 5 has the same A7 as the iPhone 5S - rather than an A7X, as they've done previously.

Have they just stopped using the A7X style name? Have they just x2 the GPU frequency? (seems implausible, but it's Rogue, which is apparently extremely efficient, and maybe could handle x2 frequency?).

edited above for clarity

BTW: The anandtech iPhone 5S review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/7) noted that the A7's rogue G6430 is more powerful than was utilized in the iPhone 5S:

  At 200MHz that would give the A7 twice the peak theoretical performance of the GPU
  in the iPhone 5. And from what I’ve heard, the G6430 is clocked much higher than
  that.
If 200MHz is correct, I bet the iPad 5 just doubled the GPU frequency to 400MHz.


The iPad4 doesn't pack an A7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A6X


True, but I don't follow how that's connected to my comment... maybe I should explain the background of my comment.

  The iPhone 5S (A7) has x1 the graphics power as the iPad 4.
  The iPad 5    (A7) has x2 the graphics power of the iPad 4.
So... how to get double the graphics power out of the same SoC (A7)? That was the puzzle (likely ans: x2 frequency)


You may be incorrectly assuming all A7 SoCs are identical. The Apple TV has an A5, but it's only single core, unlike it's dual core phone and tablet brethren. Maybe they just dropped the X moniker.


If you have a look at my original comment, I suggested that: "Have they just stopped using the A7X style name?"


oh, right. I think that's the answer.


You could be right, but have a read of the review I linked above, search for the text I quoted, and read around that. To me, it's compelling that the iPhone 5S's GPU is severely underclocked, leaving headroom for reuse in the iPad 5. And of course higher-clocking is usual in iPads, with their larger battery.

BONUS: for next year, the G6630 gives 50% performance increase + the expected node shrink allows a further ~30% overclock. 1.5*1.3 = 1.95 ~ 2.0.

For the following year, they could go for G6630MP2 (the 6 clusters can be multicored as a whole). Next (three years from now), they could go G6630MP3 plus another node shrink. By that time, there could be 8/10 clusters available G6830, G6A30 etc, and an entirely new architecture in the works, though probably not yet available.


It's possible they wanted to be misleading like that. So the A7 in iPhone 5S could have a certain level of performance, while the "A7" in iPad Air has its GPU clocked twice as higher, but the same name.


Where is the mac mini update?

This is really what I want to see. An updated mac mini with Haswell would be really nice.

I hope they just update it even if it didn't make it to the main announcements.


They haven't announced a Mac Mini refresh in years. It'll slip out quietly at some point.


The mac mini was refreshed a year ago (in fact, to the day, Oct 23)... Bumped to IV-B CPU, Bluetooth 4, Thunderbolt1 and dual drive bay


Sure, but they didn't talk about it. I'd say it'll be similar this time round.


Yeah this was what I was hoping for as well. Does anybody know when its likely to be released?


I could see that happening. The Mac Mini is a beloved machine, albeit not a very exciting one.


Apple is going for even higher margins, and it will still sell well since who doesn't want a lighter iPad?

* SoC: A5X was 165mm^2. A6X was 123mm^2. A7 is only 102mm^2 with a 64-bit memory interface instead of 128-bit. They can do PoP memory too for even smaller PCB area. So much cheaper. * WiFi/LTE: same chips probably used on iPhone 5c, 5s, iPad Air, and iPad mini. Simpler inventory and buy in even higher quantities. * Screen: same screen as all previous retina generations likely. * Battery: much smaller since the GPU is more efficient. More cost savings.


> * SoC: A5X was 165mm^2. A6X was 123mm^2. A7 is only 102mm^2 with a 64-bit memory interface instead of 128-bit.

This was pretty inevitable; the A5X was _absurdly_ large for a mobile SoC, and they only did it because they had to. Even the A7 is on the hefty side; it's about the biggest of its process node.


Why does Apple depart from the series numbers with the iPad?

New iPad, now iPad Air... seems silly?


I think Apple leaves the number on the iPhone because carrier contracts make it a naturally cyclical purchase: When users come off contract, Apple wants them to know that there's a new phone available with a big +1 number.

Conversely, Apple wants you to buy a new iPad as soon as you want one, and not sit around waiting for the N+1 model. Spreading out purchases over the device lifecycle gives them better margins as manufacturing and components get cheaper.


An interesting guess would be that they're going to repurpose the generic iPad name for something beefier like the Surface. In that case, the iPad Air would sort of be the lighter portable version similar to the Macbook Pro/Macbook Air. Just an idea that popped into my head.


That's an interesting thought.

It's presumably only a matter of time before the heart of Apple's PC line is converted to touchscreen. Whether they will carry the Macbook branding or iPad branding or a mixture of both will be interesting.


If you look at the back of the iPhones, the iPhone 3GS was the last one to name itself. Recently an Apple store employee wasn't to happy that I kept saying iPad 4.

I suppose in a world where change is frequent and incremental rather than dramatic and rare removing the version number is appropriate to minimize consumer confusion.

What strikes me more about this iPad Air is the price points. $499 16GB wifi only is a very hard sell to the mass market when a Nexus 7 16GB comes in at $230. Size matters here, but I can see Apple being in big trouble when Google's tablet is half the price and has a handful of more advanced features. I guess that is why Apple hired that Burberry executive last week. They can sit right next to the Vertu store.


About the Android tablets - what they seem to get wrong is the aspect ratio and / or dimensions. I have a rooted Nook Tablet, and I dislike the it because both portrait and landscape are too narrow. I grab my sister's iPad and it seems to be much more natural. Even the iPad mini just shrinks what the iPad has. So yes, Nexus, et. al are cheaper, but the dimensions, for me personally, stink.


The 3GS didn't have it's name on the back. All iPhones have simply said 'iPhone' on the back.


The Retina Mini is $399. So, yeah, it's more than the N7, but it's not twice as much.


Close enough. $230 vs $400


It doesn't have more advanced features, and there is little or no software optimized for it.


There's a Mini, there's an Air... maybe soon there'll be a Pro?


With all due respect, I really hope HN doesn't end up turning into an Apple fanatic site as was the case on certain tech blogs a few years ago.

Also 2mm thinner warrants the "Air" title? I seriously think Apple are parodying themselves sometimes...

Disclaimer: I am not any sort of "fanboy", I own an iPad and an android phone because they seem to be most suitable for me in those areas, I just feel as though HN is getting a bit caught up in the "hype" of Apple today.


> I really hope HN doesn't end up turning into an Apple fanatic site

You obviously haven't been around HN very long. Major apple announcements get significant coverage on HN. Always have, always will.

> 2mm thinner

Did you miss the ~30% weight reduction?


Just reading through the (largely critical) comments in this thread, I don't think there's much of a chance of that happening.


They needed to change the name, and have been trying to get away from the numbering scheme. Remember how they tried to call the iPad 3 the "New iPad" but it failed to catch on?


Well, where do you go from there really..


It would be interesting to see a HN poll on this. It seems to me that HN is mostly pro-Google/Android, anti-Apple, anti-MSFT, anti-FB and anti-Twitter.


I'm pretty sure it's much simpler; HN is anti-everything.


except Go.


You are worried that this is becoming an Apple fanatic site because we are discussing new Apple products the same day they were announced?


Also 2mm thinner warrants the "Air" title? I seriously think Apple are parodying themselves...

Have you considered that the term "Air" may be a name change that sets up space in the product line-up for a future higher-tier tablet – just like they have done in laptop line – rather than being mere braggadocio?


Read the comments. Anything but praise.


I know that not everyone uses a keyboard case, but I am saddened by the fact that the new one is too small to support a usable keyboard case.

When I purchased a Clamcase Pro, I started using my iPad for pretty much everything, from term papers to code. While it was still pretty small, I could comfortably type about 90wpm on it, which is only about 10-15 less than I normally type.

For everyone else, this looks like pretty good upgrade.


Too small? Logitech makes a keyboard cover for the mini [1], they'll surely do one for the ipad air

[1] http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/ultrathin-keyboard-min...


Just because they make something, doesn't mean it works well. Only someone with relatively small hands will be able to type accurately and comfortably on that thing. It's also not the kind of keyboard case that works well on your lap.

The Clamcase Pro, on the other hand, did a pretty good job of converting my iPad into a MacBook Air that runs IOS. I'm curious to see if they'll manage to come out with a usable solution for the new one. If not, I don't really need to upgrade my iPad 4 for another year or so anyways.


I use this logitech keyboard every day and absolutely love it. The overall package is thinner than the Clamcase Pro, too. I basically use this iPad everywhere not my desk, and can't go back to lugging my laptop around.


" I can't imagine the value proposition for a new iPad 2 is at all attractive at that price point.. "

Its interesting how most people here assume that the world at large makes same choices as themselves. Consider iPhone pricing: Apple has been selling previous years models for $100 less than the latest version, yet they sold millions of outdated iPhones even in the US.

Not everyone wants the latest gadget or cares about the greatest tech specs as long as they can extract the desired utility at the least possible price. There are laggards in the adoption curve who are more price sensitive than the early adopters.

I'm a victim of this fallacy myself. I used to wonder who on the earth is clicking on those ads displayed next to Google search, why don't everyone just install AdBlock on their browsers? Yet Google raked in billions of dollars as people clicked on those ads that I considered spam.


Does anyone know what the airplane game they're showing here is? http://images.apple.com/ipad-air/features/images/performance...

I'd like to get it.


It's Sky Gamblers: Air Supremacy by Namco. Here's the App Store link: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/sky-gamblers-air-supremacy/i...


> Sadly, one thing it doesn't appear to have—at least, not yet—is a gold casing.

Can't tell if sarcasm or not.


Given that the gold 5s was incredibly popular at launch, would it really be surprising that someone wants an ipad with the same option?


And given that it was widely made fun of, would it really be surprising that he was joking?


But having that color covering a whole laptop does seems a lot tackier. Now, a black Macbook Air would be interesting - or perhaps even a "space grey" one.


1lb! finally a reasonable weight for the full size iPad, I was worried they'd lower it back to the same weight as the iPad 2 rather than make a dramatic change like this.


Article has little info, is this just a rebranding of the "big iPad" line?


Yep, lighter faster version. Realistically, they probably realized that people want to be able to tell what version it is from the name. The previous two iterations were just the "new iPad".



Looks nice. I'll be ordering one (my daughter accidentally destroyed our old iPad2).

The only thing that bugs me is that they're still able to charge crazy money for more internal storage. $100 for going from 16 to 32GB, seriously?


From Apple's tech specs, the only differences I can see between the Retina Mini and the Air is the weight and size of the screen (the resolution is the same). So the extra $100 is for bigger heavier pixels?


Basically, yes. I personally will be buying the Air because I like my older iPad's size vs my iPhone. The mini is a great product, but it's just a little too small for me to fit the bedroom/travel entertainment category that I'm looking for. Plus, playing board and light-3d games on the 10" screen is really a joy.


More materials and more battery. That's what you are paying the extra for. The larger device is better for collaboration and creative use whereas the smaller one is better for casual use and reading, but both are equally capable when it comes to choice of software.


Interesting, not sure if its enough to make be upgrade but still. Weirdly when the 'ipad air' moniker leaked I figured they were going to a do an iOS version of the Macbook Air to capture the 'appliance laptop' market that the Chromebook and Surface 2 are gunning for.

The graphics and cpu boosts are nice (and nice that they are accompanied by a run time boost) but what about the camera? What about the sensors? Looking forward to the full appraisal post event.


The 'appliance laptop' market is too similar to the failed netbook market for Apple to approach or care about, I think. If Apple were to come out with an new or hybrid category I don't think it would resemble an 'appliance laptop'.

Afterall, the MacBook Air wasn't a competitor to the netbooks - it was a competitor to the ultrabooks being touted by Intel et al. The iPad was the sleeper competitor to the netbook and killed that market (with help from Windows and Intel desperate to not have the PC platform not go that far down market).

If Apple comes out with something to address the 'appliance laptop' market I expect it to be an official Apple design and manufactured keyboard for the iPad line* and not an entirely new product.

I've not seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but the "iPad Air" and "iPad Mini" monikers leave room for the simply "iPad" moniker to eventually refer to something entirely re-imagined or ultra-premium. At the least it leaves room for a larger "iPad".

* What is the state of the art in usability in the 3rd party iPad keyboard market these days?


"Afterall, the MacBook Air wasn't a competitor to the netbooks - it was a competitor to the ultrabooks being touted by Intel et al."

This is backwards: the original MBA was introduced in 2008, and Intel only introduced the "Ultrabook" branding several years later. The MBA was largely panned as a far-too-expensive Apple attempt to cover their flank from the inexorable advance of the netbook. It was only when the iPad and competitive Android tablets put paid to netbooks that Intel came around to the design.


Ah, thank you for the correction.


> What is the state of the art in usability in the 3rd party iPad keyboard market these days?

Logitech ultrathin is very expensive but a must buy for ipad productivity. Ergonomics are excellent for dual keyboard and screen driving (iOS doesn't make sense completely from keyboard) and it can be used as a full laptop replacement for a lot of business applications.


Revolution and innovation don't happy everyday, that's what makes them special and amazing. Expecting one company to be revolutionary and innovative once a year is expecting too much, once every ten years is probably expecting too much. Good incremental steps is not only expected, it's probably all that's possible.

Most people go through their entire life without thinking up something innovative, much less making it.


True. Nonetheless, I find myself a bit disappointed. At this point, the only thing iPad has is a first mover's advantage aka the App Store. There are very compelling alternatives available in both 7 inch and 10 inch range with interesting experimentation - Surface Blades for example. Nexus 7, Lumia 2520, Surface can match the build quality.


Interesting experimentation doesn't mean a more useful product, and those devices do not match the build quality.

Whereas a 30% weight reduction and 100% performance improvement makes the iPad air far more useable in every situation


Interesting that it's also getting the new M7 motion co-processor. It's good to see the market for always-on motion sensor computing increasing.


I really need to get more creative with my personal apps now that someone can be carrying an iPhone 5S and iPad Air, both that can be iBeacons and accurately track motion. Ugh, there has to be something there!


The performance and weight are exciting, but does anyone else prefer the old thick bezel? I always loved that about the original iPad design, that there was seldom any concern about accidental touches and where to put your thumb(s).


Still as thick on top and bottom. It's just the sides that are thinner. I guess it depends how you hold it most of the time. Personally, I mostly hold it in landscape view, so I will have the thick bezel most of the time. There are just a few apps that make use of the portrait view and of course there are the eBooks I read, but that doesn't happen to often.


Is there really enough here to persuade a current iPad owner to upgrade? Not for me. Apple's really going to have to push developers to crank out resource-intensive apps.


> Apple's really going to have to push developers to crank out resource-intensive apps.

Why? I would say Apple is more interested in having developers crank out _great_ apps, rather than resource intensive. It just so happens these are usually more resource intensive.


I disagree that great apps need to be resource intensive. To borrow from another industry, "12 Angry Men" is still a great movie despite a complete lack of whiz bang special effects. A great app is about the story, not the photo-realism.

At least for the upgrade market (of existing iPad owners), Apple does not benefit (much) from great apps that run fine on an iPad 1 or iPad 2.


I don't know how Apple does it. I want one of these.


> Apple says is 8 times faster and has 72 times better graphics performance than the old processor.

I am always amused by this.


That was with respect to the original iPad compared to the iPad Air .

I may have misheard. I had the video minimized while working on other things.


http://www.apple.com/ipad-air/ says 2x for both CPU and GPU.


Right. But the number seems very interesting. Almost every update you see a similar number. Power of Morse Law.


There was a graphic they had up too that showed this - I think it was 8x over the iPad 2 but I could be wrong.


No it is compared to iPad one. Which makes it ridiculous. They are just keeping up with Moore's law (or are slightly ahead of the curve). And I suppose the GPU is mostly increased die area - will wait for the teardown.

I think that apple is having a case of "taking ourselves too seriously" lately and have believed all the praise parts of the pundits are pouring on them so they cannot see how absurd that sounds.


I really hope Apple can make these products: iMac Air, iPad Pro & Macbook air Retina.

Sent from iphone air pro.


Apple keeps disappointing me


At this point they are not even trying anymore. They put up the same tactic as with the iPhone 5C (marginally cheaper, definitely worse device than the top line just to make the step to the high-end device seem more reasonable and will be taken faster whilst getting rid of their old iPad supply), made everything a bit thinner, did some software updates and upgraded the hardware components.

So, enjoy your time waiting for the NEW IPAD AIR 2014, TWICE AS LIGHT, NOW WITH FINGER PRINT SCANNER. RETINA MACBOOK AIR 2014. You can say anything you want, but this is nothing new. Gimmicks, I tell you. Which is absolutely fine if it weren't for Apple to market this stuff as revolutionary, insane new concepts beating the competition at every point. They are basically scamming customers and they don't even care as long as they get an Apple logo with it.

To those Apple zealots down voting me: do you really need to suppress criticism this bad? Maybe it is because you are in denial or something? Feel bad, because it hurts to know you are being scammed?


I downvoted you because your comment adds nothing to the conversation. This is a rehash of comments you can find anywhere else on the Internet. Your subjective opinion is that you don't care for these products or find them interesting, therefore Apple products are a gimmick/scam/whatever?

And then you follow it up with the suggestion that people who disagree with you are "zealots" who are "suppressing criticism?" How the heck else would you have expected people to respond to an ad hominem like that?

You are of course entitled to your opinions. Feel free to post them. But as long as they continue to add little value to the conversation they'll probably get downvoted, at least until you say something with more nuance or insight.


Why is this comment at the top? I don't know what else people want. You can't rewrite the script every year, iteration after iteration apple has improved this device and it only gets better. There is nothing wrong with that.


>Why is this comment at the top?

People tend to upvote valuable and truthful comments around here, so it seems.


That's why that comment has now sunk to the bottom.


Out of curiosity, what would you consider "revolutionary"?




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