Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

well, no, the supreme court has decided that effectively breaking four covalent bonds is not transformative (your words). I think it's a wrong decision. Even so, if you actually understand it, the act of PCR is an act of creation, not transformation. That dsDNA molecule doesn't exist in nature.

For example, there is a molecule thiostrepton which is an antibiotic compound, that's really quite poor. They have recently discovered that only the core of the molecule is necessary for antibiosis, and removal of the rest of the molecule improves its pharmacological properties. It's a distinct molecule, created by the scission of 3 covalent bonds. Should it be unpatentable? Almost certainly, somewhere in nature, there has a thiostrepton molecule that by accident happened to have been cleaved at exactly the right places to render the molecule. does that change your opinion?

I am not trying to defend the practice - I abhor patents - but a lot of people are letting their emotional reaction to "patenting genes" get in the way of a dispassionate and informed analysis of what actually is going on here.



Your perspective is confusing. You say that a modified form of thiostrepton should not be patentable, even though the patent protects the molecule as well as the process of chemical synthesis or purification, which often requires significant innovation, and in this case the natural molecule is also significantly modified. On the other hand, when you PCR something you are generating a dsDNA molecule that is identical to the original molecule. I understand PCR quite well, and doing PCR is not innovative or transformative. You are creating something, sure, but it's an exact copy of something that exists in nature. The Supreme Court clearly states here that merely finding out where a genetic sequence is and isolating it is not patentable. The process of PCR itself is an invention, and is patented (Cetus, Mullis).

It seems preposterous to say that you are strongly against patents, and then say you think the patent should be much more restrictive. I have no emotional reaction to patenting genes. I think patenting a significant modification of a naturally occurring substance is completely reasonable as it protects the investments involved in inventing and applying the modifications, while at the same time allowing others to use and understand the development. Without patents biotech would become full of trade secrets, holding back progress in the field.


Yeah, i'm against patents, but i think if we have them they should be applied fairly and according to a clear set of rules instead. It's like saying, I'm opposed to government being involved in marriage, but if we are going to have it then homosexuals should be allowed to be married.

The only reason why the perspective seems confusing is because you're conflating process with molecules. In general any given claim of a patent can protect the molecule or the process. Myriad did not choose to claim the process, because the process is obvious. But having a process that is obvious does not necessarily make the molecule obvious.

Doing PCR is not innovative. But the process DOES transform one molecule into another, unless your primers are exactly flush with the end of the dsDNA - in which case it is merely a straight copying operation. OK? The molecule that comes out at the end has a different covalent structure than the molecule that you start with. Is that not true? if you don't believe that, then you would make the claim that octane 'is the same as' dodecane, because it's just a truncated version.

Also, it is not an exact copy of something in nature, unless that 'thing' is a data fragment. It is an original molecule, that copies the data, but the molecule is distinct. That is an important point. Molecule patents don't care about the abstract qualities of something (beyond proving that it's useful). Molecule patents only care about the structure of the molecule.


addendum:

I am happy with the SCOTUS decision though from a pragmatic point of view, because there is a prokaryotic gene I'd like to "steal", that's under patent application right now of course prokaryotic genes have no introns, so I just got a field day on it.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: