Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Hi. Longshoreman here. I work around at the busiest port(s) in the USA and the 5th busiest port(s) in the world. Driving through and working around the 100,000's containers at the harbor never gets old even after working there for 7 years.

There are some interesting things I can say about containers after working with them up close:

• Half of the containers we export are empties. The way the process works is we get a majority of full containers from the East (China, Japan, etc.), unload them, and send them empty boxes. Quartz covered this recently: http://qz.com/64779/america-exports-a-lot-of-air/

• A refrigerated container is called a "reefer". We call the mechanics that work on these reefer mechanics. A 40 foot chasis is called a 40. So yeah, chatter on the radio channels talks about reefers, 40's, and (work) gangs.

• Here is a pic I took one night of the cranes before they started to "pump" (work). http://imgur.com/oxGNz9b

• I have a draft of a post almost done about what it is that Longshoremen do now a days. It's obviously changed a lot from unloading shit by hand. I met an old timer that would use a hook to stab a giant ice block to pick out the fish. This was before reefers. (I actually just published the post. It's not complete, but it has more general info about longshoremen and containers: http://raymondduke.com/who-are-longshoremen-what-do-they-do-...)

• I can't find the link, but the process that bananas go through as they get shipped here is very interesting. There is a special and very intricate cooling and ripening process with an exact temperature change at the right moment in order to make sure the bananas are the right ripeness when they arrive here.

• The worst thing I've encountered is cowhides. Cowhides are a common export from the USA to China (I imagine there is not a lot of room for cattle there). The reason why they are bad is because of the smell. They are coated with some sort of chemical so they don't get dry, but instead of keeping them in a bag, they just toss them in a container and drench them with this foul liquid that drips out of the box as it gets moved around the yard. Luckily, I've only encountered this a few times.

I'll be happy to answer any questions. I might not like a lot of things about my job (the politics and the schedule), but I am in love with the culture of the port.




What do you think are the main potential areas for improvement in the field? Is there potential for more automation?

It sounds like a fascinating job, those cranes look really cool.


Automation is coming, without a doubt. The problem right now is implementation. A lot of the terminals have had computer screens with GPS that either don't work or are way too faulty. The terminal I worked at today ordered several new automated cranes this year (video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdMMDjPPILE) but they didn't have the power to support them; so now they are digging up the pavement in order to supply more power. It's a giant mess.

Main improvements would be a better implementation, obviously, but also a better line of communication between companies and workers. I wrote a piece of Medium (https://medium.com/labor-related/188796b758d) about how they hired 18,000 new workers in the late 90's; which would normally be a very good thing but 80% of those workers are still on temp status (including me). Temp status (i.e., a Casual) doesn't earn a pension, get benefits, or have any of the other perks of a regular worker. I might be getting off-topic a little here, but an improvement to the ports would include a better line of communication between workers and companies instead of trying to turn the port into a giant conveyor belt. I'm not so skeptical to think that a good paying blue collar job will exist forever, but there is an extreme level of efficiency that happens when you put human minds behind big tasks instead of leaving it up to computers.

Here is another panoramic pic of when I worked rails: http://i.imgur.com/V1Sficm.jpg. Those giant four legged things move back and forth over the wells. The machine I was in moves along side the tracks and allows you to hop on and off the containers to take cones on or off.


Hey. I worked at a major steamship line for five years. The coolest part was watching the ships come into the terminal and get worked by the longshoremen.

It's still a dangerous job though. Someone gets badly hurt or killed at the port here once every year or two.

Ever heard of Euromax in the Netherlands? Not a single human on the docks there most of the time. The entire terminal is robotic now. Just a few engineers up in a control tower, to make sure the computers keep running. That won't happen in the US for a long time, though. The ILA and ILWU have a lot of political power.


I have heard of fully automated ports, but not Euromax in particular.

I suppose the ILWU and ILA do have a lot of political power when you compare them to other ports. But from my perspective, we are losing more and more ground each day. Since a majority of the workers are temps who can't get involved with meetings and other "official bidness", then I don't know who will take the reigns 10-20 years from now.

Did you keep up to date with what happened in Hong Kong?


I wasn't really following it, but I see they had to strike for six weeks to get a 9.8% pay raise to keep up with inflation. I believe they probably did need it just for that reason, Hong Kong is a crazy expensive place to live.

I feel bad for longshoremen in Asia, they have more dangerous conditions and weaker unions, so it's much harder for them to get reasonable pay and benefits. And the rate of inflation/cost of living is getting crazy in China and Hong Kong.


Could you shed some light on the strange employment structure in your industry?

My impression is that unions in this industry are a combination of the bad (artificially restricting the supply of labor, to the benefit of union members, and the detriment of non members) and good (giving workers to power to maintain safety standards, and making sure that workers feel they can trust their fellow workers).

What limits communication? Is it the fact that a lot of the workers are temp workers, or is it unrelated?


Sure. I'll do my best to clear things up.

Unions are a combination of bad and good, just like corporations, franchises, and any other organization. One of the major flaws of the union for me is that you can't get promoted on the job based on merit. The only way to get a raise and to get more work is to work more, not harder or smarter. When I work on the docks, I work steady and safe. Maybe this is actually a good thing because it is a dangerous place to work and they don't want anyone trying to be a hotshot.

As for the good, there is a sense of organization and community beyond anything I've experienced before in my life. There are about 5,000 Casuals and we all know that we are part time temp labor, so we all do what we can to help one another. Things like powerball pools, buying and selling or services or other part time hustles (plumbing, towing, hanging tvs', etc.), and various other community related things are common.

Things that limit communication: The ones that make the decisions that affect us all, are doing so in their best interest and not the interest of the port or for the economy. For example, fully automated ports move cargo at only around 30% of what we do, but since they don't have to pay pensions for the machine or give them benefits, it's worth the slower move time. As for the union, there is not a long term strategy for the future of its workers at the port. A majority of casuals don't even know what the union President's name is.

It's kind of ironic that the actual job is the most organized thing I've seen (for example, we can unload over 3,000 cars from a ship in about 6 hours), but the organization process for the port itself, is awful.

These are just my opinions as of this moment. It's possible I could just simply be completely in the dark or not doing a good enough job of finding out the answers.


I've heard longshoreman make excellent money, and there's a long wait list of people to get into the trade. What's the pay like?


I get this alot. The truth is that longshoremen do have the potential to make a decent amount of money -- but in reality, only a small % of them do.

Pay starts off in the lower 20's and get get as high as 40-45 depending on the job you get and what shift you work; nights are 1.3 and weekends are 1.5, and some jobs have a 15% or 25% bonus. This sounds like a decent amount of $, but 3/4ths of the longshoremen work only 1 day a week on average. In 2008, we (Casuals) worked about 1 day every 4 months. I've heard of casuals making 90k in the 1990's, but I don't think that'll ever happen again.

Regulars, on the other hand, make a good amount of money. On average, the probably make 100k, and if you are a boss or a crane driver, close to 150k. Being a boss, regular, or crane driver takes a lot of time; especially the way things have been going with our economy lately. Before it would take maybe 15-20 years, and now, it's more like 20-30.

When I write this, it makes me want to give up on the job because its long term potential is dwindling. But like I mentioned, I love the culture and what it feels like working at the port; it also allows me a lot of freedom to work on my personal projects (shameless plug: I am working on a commenting platform that'll let you use audio comments). The pay right now is decent; I can earn 200-300 for working one day a week, and have the rest of the week for myself. However, getting a job for the week is sometimes annoying; I have to stand around at a hiring hall for hours - or sometimes, days - to work a shift.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: