Thanks Dan, I always enjoy your posts in these threads. Your second paragraph is exactly why this is a big deal and why I always grit my teeth when someone says women don't work in tech because they aren't interested in tech, just as some of the commenters on that article do.
My problem with this blog entry -- besides the fact that posts like these garner all sorts of self-pats-on-the-back from men who already outnumber women exponentially, thus making those dealing with these issues feel even smaller than they already do -- is that no one is asking for special treatment. They are just asking for the situations in your post to be out of the picture. I don't know where these phantom extremist tech feminists are that are going around telling people that we need to separate to coexist that people keep complaining about. What I know is that many women seek solace in private mailing lists and women-only coding clubs is because they've experienced enough frustration that they need an outlet to scream and a place to make sure that they're not being irrational or interpreting a situation wrong.
The author may be comfortable in her own skin, and she may be able to shake off any ill-will towards her, but not wanting to be treated like an idiot at your job is hardly gender-specific. Men are just as likely to be in that position, but their validation-over-time happens more quickly. They are able to bounce back. They are seen as confident and worthy when they ask for their raises and promotions, as opposed to how women are seen in the same situation.
At the end of the day, I think posts like these are just as destructive as ones like Shanley's (https://medium.com/women-and-work/405b2d12d213). Both speak to two sides of the same coin, but unfortunately they take the attitude that their experiences are the only experiences, and thus, here is a guilt-tripping one-size-fits-all solution.
A great post on the issue of trying to deal with not talking about gender inequality while dealing with gender inequality is by comedian Sara Schaefer, titled "Taco at the sausage party": https://medium.com/gender-justice-feminism/66fa6d700af2
Even if you attempt to ignore everything going on around you, it doesn't change what people are saying and doing about you. At some point, you crack, no matter how much you have been trying to avoid doing so. The attitude shift needs to happen across the board.
My problem with this blog entry -- besides the fact that posts like these garner all sorts of self-pats-on-the-back from men who already outnumber women exponentially, thus making those dealing with these issues feel even smaller than they already do -- is that no one is asking for special treatment.
A thousand times yes. It's an argument which warrants skepticism if for no other reason than the fact that it lets men off the hook.
And I too grind my teeth because I suspect there's the implicit dynamic of, "here's a woman who disagrees, therefore you don't speak for all women, therefore we can round file talk about inclusion and feminism." It enables even more reflexive contrarianism.
Fundamentally, even coming from a woman, these arguments boil down to "have you tried not having feelings?" Or perhaps more accurately: "I don't have a problem; have you tried being me?" It's not in the least bit actionable.
And apropos of your third para: in general if the premise of your argument is that you have to adopt the arguer's attitude, background, and/or worldview wholesale, discarding your own, it's a failed argument. It's part of the antipattern wherein women are expected to adopt male attitudes and behavioral patterns in order to get by. (Which is itself yet another way in which men can declaim responsibility.)
Anyway, I thank you and Dan for the high quality conversation here. I'd avoided looking at this comment thread for obvious reasons, and I was pleasantly surprised.
My problem with this blog entry -- besides the fact that posts like these garner all sorts of self-pats-on-the-back from men who already outnumber women exponentially, thus making those dealing with these issues feel even smaller than they already do -- is that no one is asking for special treatment. They are just asking for the situations in your post to be out of the picture. I don't know where these phantom extremist tech feminists are that are going around telling people that we need to separate to coexist that people keep complaining about. What I know is that many women seek solace in private mailing lists and women-only coding clubs is because they've experienced enough frustration that they need an outlet to scream and a place to make sure that they're not being irrational or interpreting a situation wrong.
The author may be comfortable in her own skin, and she may be able to shake off any ill-will towards her, but not wanting to be treated like an idiot at your job is hardly gender-specific. Men are just as likely to be in that position, but their validation-over-time happens more quickly. They are able to bounce back. They are seen as confident and worthy when they ask for their raises and promotions, as opposed to how women are seen in the same situation.
At the end of the day, I think posts like these are just as destructive as ones like Shanley's (https://medium.com/women-and-work/405b2d12d213). Both speak to two sides of the same coin, but unfortunately they take the attitude that their experiences are the only experiences, and thus, here is a guilt-tripping one-size-fits-all solution.
A great post on the issue of trying to deal with not talking about gender inequality while dealing with gender inequality is by comedian Sara Schaefer, titled "Taco at the sausage party": https://medium.com/gender-justice-feminism/66fa6d700af2
Even if you attempt to ignore everything going on around you, it doesn't change what people are saying and doing about you. At some point, you crack, no matter how much you have been trying to avoid doing so. The attitude shift needs to happen across the board.