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Redundant. Bored. I'm coming to SFO. Tight budget.
26 points by geoffw8 on Feb 1, 2009 | hide | past | favorite | 103 comments
Hello all,

Message from someone fed up of seeing the same things every day. Wants to live a little.

I've recently been a victim of the redundancies here in the UK, I was previously at Blyk (about.blyk.com), as an everything guy. I worked on PR projects, assisted in developing the mobile content portal proposition, managed the online channel, mobile design and production. They liked my mind, and applied it to lots.

I'm pretty fed up of the UK and am endeared by the states and the start-up scene.

I can find flights for £350 from Heathrow to SFO, which leaves accommodation to be found. I'm on an incredibly tight budget.

So I'd be incredibly appreciative if anybody:

- Knows of a reasonably priced room going, or has a spare room

- Knows of an available position (I can imagine they are few and far between)

- Will trade work for board

About me: I'm 19, left school at 17. Joined Blyk, there for nearly 2 years. Worked 3 roles in Marketing and Creative. I'm a normal kinda guy. British. Dashing. Charming. Modest. Have been living in central London for the last 2 years. Versatile, hungry for knowledge.

I just need to get out there and then make the next steps. When do I want to leave? As soon as Monday.

I truly appreciate any help or comments, I'll be refreshing every 10-20 seconds!

Many thanks,

Geoff Wright




Unless you have a green card, if you say that at the border (that you are coming to the US to look for work), you'll be deemed inadmissible.

It will also be illegal for you to be self-employed, work without authorization, "trade work for board", or start a startup, once you are here.

Basically, you'll probably need to find a company that can sponsor H1B (but I'm not sure if that can happen for people who didn't finish college)


Fuck. Suddenly I love EU.

Edit: As a EU citizen you can get a work permit in any countries in the European Union. Not sure if that's appealing to you, though.


Bear in mind that the US is almost as large (population-wise) as the EU, is a collection of Europe-size states, and we don't have to get work permits when moving between states. Unfortunately we haven't extended that courtesy across the Atlantic yet.


And the US has the benefit of a near universal language.

Mobility in the EU is not entirely limited by language, especially with manual work, but in professional circles it's a killer.. so EU mobility is pathetic compared to the US (hardly anyone I know in California is from California.. :))


'Fuck. Suddenly I love EU.' Yea - me too!

It is massively, I think that might be the way forward. Thanks : )


Berlin - Cheaper than London but has a startup community


I definitely like Berlin - considered living there for a year (I speak German which makes it easier). It is a city of experiments, both good and bad, full of great art, and a very active night-life scene.


Do people speak good English? How hard do you think it would be for a foreigner (not speaking German) to get around in Berlin?


"Do people speak English well?" you mean. I normally wouldn't point it out, but given the context...


I think "Do you speak good English?" is correct given that the adjective "good" indicates the quality of his English.


Since I'm not a prescriptivist, I'll point out that there's a subtle difference of meaning between "speak good English" and "speak English well", and the meaning here is better reflected by the second phrase.

Consider the similar phrase, "Did you eat good pie", versus "Did you eat pie well". In the pie case the former is correct because you're referring to the quality of the pie. In the case at hand, we're talking about the quality of the speaking.


Your example isn't quite the same, since the speaking is what creates the English. A better analogy would be "Do you bake good pies" vs. "Do you bake pies well" -- which don't mean quite the same thing, but they're pretty close.


Yup, this is what I had in mind.


You probably had something like "Do people speak English good?" in mind.


In the startup scene and among anyone with a technology-oriented college education, it won't be a problem at all. Almost all Germans learn some English in high school, and most retain enough to at least a have basic dialog.

In short: working in the startup scene won't be a problem; grocery shopping might be an adventure. ;-)


In most major European cities, you can "get by" with English. The problem is that "getting by" is not that satisfying, and after a while you start wanting to be able to communicate in more meaningful ways, and the only way to do that is to either limit yourself to the people that speak English really well (which are fewer in number, and who, in any case, also have friends themselves who don't speak English so well), or learn the local language.


I've been to Berlin several times. Most everyone I met spoke better English than I do. I asked some of them whether this is a common German trait and they said yes, but primarily amongst younger people.


I think it's fairly easy to get around without speaking german. btw Berlin is great :)


How's the Berlin startup scene these days? I visited the place around 2005 - it was a great city and had thriving culture, but seemed to be lagging behind Hamburg or Munich as far as startups. Has it changed since?


"Berlin is the Startup Capital"

http://www.deutsche-startups.de/2007/11/29/berlin-ist-die-st...


Do you have some more info on that? I'm thinking about moving to SFO as well; but Berlin is probably a lot better!


Berlin's fun, cheap and is a moderate startup hub. You can't compare the startup activity here to the valley, but well, you can't compare the Valley's music and arts culture to Berlin's.

Plus, as has been mentioned here several times, you can't just up and go to SFO without the appropriate paperwork. You could spend three months there, but that's really more like an extended holiday than really moving.

As for English in Berlin, it's definitely doable. Socially I really find it worthwhile to put effort into learning German since otherwise you're often stuck being the odd-man-out when going out in a group or hanging out with other foreigners.


* You can't compare the startup activity here to the valley, but well, you can't compare the Valley's music and arts culture to Berlin's.*

The Valley maybe, but not San Francisco and the Bay Area generally. San Francisco has an extremely mature (though not in a classic sense) arts and music scene.


Sure. It's there and it's good in San Francisco. And Berlin still blows it out of the water.

Right now Berlin's one of, if not the, place to be for arts and culture in the west. Which was kind of the point of the analogy -- the Valley / San Francisco is the epicenter for the startup world. Berlin is the epicenter for new music, art, etc. (And this isn't just coming from a biased Berliner; I'm an American that ended found his way here. :-) )


I was about to do the same, but then work for free possible in exchange for a license of the company's software. Is it legal to work for free like this in the US though?

I can pony up a couple grand and do a housing swap which should allow me to live decently in SF and let me work with a truly interesting tech company for a change ...


No. You can not "work." That means doing anything for any sort of compensation. That includes working for your own business. People do it - but people have broken the law since day one, so you have to make your own decisions and take any possible consequences.

Disclaimer: IANAL, but I spent time with one trying to get on top of this very issue.


So if I did it without the license as compensation it could be classified as a really weird holiday and then it would be legal?


Depends on your definition of "legal." It'd still be "work." You need to think whether a US border agent would let you in if you told them the truth. I once told an agent I was going to help a friend set up who'd just moved into a new house.. even that got me in the interrogation room!

You need to have your entire story planned out before you get to the agent whether your entry is for legitimate purposes, arguable purposes, or illegitimate purposes. It doesn't matter which - and then stick to it.

I go to the US legitimately, and often they throw some real curveballs that, if you hadn't got a clear picture in your head, could get you into trouble fast.


I suspect you could get away with it, but that's probably illegal. Ask a lawyer if you want a real answer.


I was in your situation. I came to California and tried to get a job, but getting a work visa is almost impossible. I tried actually twice, both times using all the 90 days allowed with a tourist visa.

Result: I went back to Europe and worked for an American company in Ireland, then visited my girlfriend in California and we ended up married. So yes, I live in California now, but:

- This is not the way I thought I'd get a visa.

- In the beginning we thought sometimes about moving to Europe. My work permit took very long. Months.

- For the most part today you don't need VCs anymore, so you can start your company pretty much anywhere.

Also, in some parts of the EU the economy is better than here. Denmark is already out of recession.

Good luck.


I got relocated by an American corporate on an L1 Blanket which was relatively easy and now I'm applying for a Green Card through said corporation.

That said it'll have been 3 years to be home free assuming I get my green card in the next 2 (I've been told that's likely).

Being married to an American I have a get out of jail free card but I wouldn't recommend that for visa purposes only. ;)


Why would you go to the USA? Getting a work permit there is a nightmare. Not to mention their current .. uh, "difficulties".

As a Pommie Bastard your 2 best options IMO are:

- working holiday in Australia (you're eligible up to 18 months I think, you will have NO problems extending to a full work visa)

- teach english in Japan (I think the WH visa is good for 12 months) (can be surprisingly good)

Obviously I reckon AU is your best bet, we won't be hit anywhere near as hard as other countries by the current "troubles". Or, if you can't stand your criminal ancestors, I recommend a tour of duty in Asia - Taiwan, Korea, Shanghai. That's where the future lies, after all. May not be a good idea if you're a breast man.

I like SF and all but kinda thinking this is exactly the wrong time. The visa problems are just the icing on the bad idea cake.


* teach english in Japan *

You will find that this almost universally requires a degree from a 4 year university. They don't care if it is a 4 year degree in Dog Care, but it has to be a 4 year degree.


For the big schools that is apparently true, but I wouldn't work for them anyway. There are billions of smaller schools who will judge on personality. Well, none of the people I know have 4 year degrees anyway. Some don't even have 3 year degrees ..

Anyway, it's not going to be the hot startup break the OP seems to be seeking, but I know some guys who have done it for a break and they really enjoyed the experience, plus should be able to work in on a UK passport.


"May not be a good idea if you're a breast man." Comment of the thread!


I'm in the exact same boat as you - a Canadian hoping to move to the States for work in the coming months. I've found a potential employer, and we've done a little research into the matter. What we've discovered is that the US-based employer needs to apply for an I-129, which I then take to a US Consulate and trade in for a 12-month temporary work visa.

We've found this resource very useful: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f...

Good luck! I'm hoping we both end up making it to SFO


Do you not have the qualifications needed to apply for TN status? My understanding is that you can get TN status at the border.


As others have mentioned, visa requirements make this sort of travel impossible. It's a shame, too.

If you're set on leaving the UK, you may want to consider other destinations. I'm currently living in Hong Kong and you shouldn't have too much trouble getting here. You'd still need to get a work or investment visa to be able to properly live here, but it would be easier than in the US.

Finally, getting an education during the recession isn't a bad idea. The investment in yourself could be the best use of your time and money now.


> As others have mentioned, visa requirements make this sort of travel impossible

No, they just make it illegal.


Hong Kong is great. I'm planning to work there for a bit a bit in the future.


Singapore. Thriving startup community. VERY oool govt + system, liberal visa policy

I just moved my startup from SF there, consolidated our employees across the world and got money to do it too from the Govt.


"VERY cool govt + system"

You have got to be fucking kidding me. Yeah, oral sex is illegal, that is "VERY cool".

Maybe the biz aspect works for you, and the MRT is good, but I just have this very nasty feeling about governments like that.


Sodomy, including heterosexual oral sex, was illegal in many places in the United States until the Lawrence vs. Texas decision in 2003.


Yeah, but at least America has a free enough press and a transparent enough legal system that you can have reasonable faith that an attempt to prosecute anyone for some ridiculous outdated law would generate enough outcry and derision that it probably wouldn't go ahead. Or if it did, it would be overturned, as in the law you quote.

Singapore, who knows?


Like, uh, gay marriages.


I asked my friend, who is a former Singaporean police officer, and he says that oral sex law isn't enforced. Same goes for anal sex.


So why hasn't it been struck off the books?

I distrust any government that keeps such laws around just in case they need something to get you with. Overcriminalisation, I think it's called. Not that I have a surfeit of trust in other governments but you get the point.


Yeah, good point.


Hong Hong also has a growing startup community:

http://www.hksua.com.hk/

And there's efforts in getting the communities in the two cities to better work together (such as the Web Wednesday groups).


Would love to hear more about all this. Relevant links, blogs, stories?


But Singapore is boring lah...


Awesome. When you're in town, check out the Web Wednesday group:

http://www.webwednesday.hk

And feel free to get in touch with me:

http://www.cubiclemuses.com


Knows of a reasonably priced room going, or has a spare room

You want http://airbnb.com


A number of our hosts are also involved in startups, so it may also be a great way to meet people in the bay area. http://airbnb.com/travel/san-francisco/ca


I like your style. Do you keep a blog? You probably should start with making yourself established, at least to a few people, over the internet. If people know you by your writing, then it will become easier to ask them for accommodations and work.

This works for a number of "indie" (read: part-time and/or hobbyist) developers. Try to make friends with other London bloggers and you might find that what you're looking for is in your backward. London is HUGE. I used to live in New Cross (SE London - SE14), and I used to think about how many damn talented engineers and internet devs I used to silently pass each day on my way to Central London.

I live in NYC now, and at 23, I have similar qualms about missing the important first-steps to start-up success. But take it easy until you at least establish yourself with others who may very well take you to your next connection.


No I don't actually, although oddly I did start writing a post last night... I probably should finish it off. I do the same 'I wonder if they're...' analysis!

Thanks for the pointers : )


I do now... http://thisisnexttime.wordpress.com.


Finish school, if you're hard up go to continental europe where there are free schools. Work on the side.

What's your plan? How far do you think you will come without a school education and no concrete skills like programming?


You sound like a pessimist? And a bit of a grump. I'm in the UK, where the schools are free.

With no disrespect, and I may well be misinterpreting the tone of your response, but at 17 I was given a position in one of Europe's hottest start-ups, I looked after a team of 6, jetted around Europe in fancy-class flights, stayed in swanky hotels and had an expense account.

Between two of us we developed Blyk's innovative ad production and delivery process that is currently being rolled out globally, and I might add, are currently in the process of patenting. I was responsible for the UK's main consumer site and b2b site and in September 06 (when I were a wee lad) project managed the launch of our 50 launch campaigns which included clients such as Visa, Coke, Sky, Xbox,Ford, Apple and many other fairly big companies.

...all without an education. I may have summed up my skill-set in 50 words, but that doesn't mean I'm average at it.

One for you: 'concrete skills like programming'? ; )


At 19 I made enough money to last for the next 15 years. Let's not measure success by the past.

You have your entire life ahead of you to make money. Even the most average 35 year olds are living fine enough with standard jobs. But you don't have your entire life to get an education and acquire skills you would not have otherwise. You have about 10 more years, after that period, you'll not want to go back to school.

So, why not get it done with now that you can still have fun at school, and then make your fortune afterwards? Is there something in particular that has to happen right now?

If you said you were heading west to start your business, I'd say fine, your fortune depends on your skill. But you're heading there to get a JOB. And the first thing they look for is your education. Which you don't have. You really want to go through the rest of your life explaining why you could not finish college? In a year you can get it done with and then start out the adventure without bad cards.

Yes, I'm being a bit of a buzzkill here, but for me it just does not seem sensible to head off to a new country without an education, without any money, and without any place to stay. But, every man has to find his path.


Misinterpretation of my initial post, I didn't say I was broke, I said I was on a budget : )

I'm not specifically after a job, but if in the short-term it put a roof over my head - I'd be happy for it.

I think we'll definitely have to put the Education thing down to cultural differences. You're using phrases like 'go through the rest of your life' and 'bad cards'. It simply isn't like that.


Alright, let's agree that we disagree on that point. I will say that going to a university can be a very enlightening experience, particularly when you study a difficult subject, and don't just study because it's what should be done. And it has nothing to do with 'cultural differences', the cultural differences between us are likely minimal.


Don't worry too much about it. Plans are overrated. I've never made a plan in my life and everything has worked out so far. Pretty anecdotal and vague, I know, but I'm just saying it is possible.

If I were in your position I might consider starting up a freelancing business, getting a few steady clients, then coming to the US for "pleasure". Line up a place to stay where nobody is going to ask for a green card; if any group will put you up, it'll be hackers.

After that... who knows! A really vague, partially illegal, mostly crazy plan. I like it.

Edit: And if you make it to Boston, let me know. We've got a spare room you could crash in for a bit I'm sure (see profile for info).


Jumping continents is a pain in the ass though. I did it when I was 21 (seemingly permanently, as 7 years later I'm still in Europe) ... it took months to pull it off, get everything lined up and so on. Especially if you're in the startup game you don't want to risk falling foul of the US immigration authorities and being denied entry in the future.

My take on things: If one wants to do some crazy traveling improvising along the way kicking back and hacking as you feel inspired, by all means! But why the heck would you want to do that in the US?

If you want to get into American startup culture, well, then you should focus on what you need to get in legally and stay there. College degree, convenience marriage, student visa...


Thats all I've been doing pretty much, I used to do freelance bits from when I was about 14 (which seems crazy now), so I've been sending some mails and have stuff trickling through - it seems like the best bet for someone in my position.

I'll definitely bear the room offer in mind. Thanks : )


Don't go to SF, traffic is horrible. </sarcasm>

Go for it, I have never regretted a large drastic change to my life yet. But I do usually regret passing up good opportunities.


dude, downmodded on your own post.

you have my sincere apologies, that's silly.


Im in exactly same position as you, except Im 24 and have finished college. Also in London but would love to trade it in for life in SFO. Currently working for a startup here, but not sure about their future.

Im thinking the best route is to a) find a job with an american/multinational company and transfer b) stow away aboard a cruise ship

Any advice?


I've heard London is actually the best place in the world in terms of salary for IT workers and programmers. Why are you all coming to Cal: for palm trees, or the gay scene in SF? (serious question)


This just isn't true. It might be 'published' as such somewhere, but there is such high demand for skilled IT workers and programmers in other large cities (I'm in Bristol myself) that you can get near London rates outside of London and the living costs are substantially cheaper.


London is drab, grey and expensive. It's not at all a relaxed place, and whatever you make you'll spend again on overpriced items.

I'm not fond of london at all, there are much better places to live in europe.


The Bay Area is really expensive too. Especially when it comes to housing.


Cost of living in London is number 3 in the world. San Francisco is number 78.

http://www.citymayors.com/features/cost_survey.html


Some of those numbers seem very suspect. For example, it lists Houston and Boston as almost identical, with Houston slightly higher. Anyone who's lived in both cities can tell you that's ridiculous; the BankRate.com COL calculator shows Boston as almost 50% more expensive:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/movecalc.asp?a=0&d1=100000&#...

The list above also puts LA significantly higher than SF, which is also ridiculous. BankRate has SF at 15% higher:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/movecalc.asp?a=0&d1=100000&#...


The crucial information is in the small print though:

"(The index is based on cost of living expressed in US dollars. Therefore, if the dollar weakens against the local currency of a city, the city becomes more expensive and moves up the index, even if prices expressed in local currency remain the same or even go down.)"

London is now over 25% cheaper in dollar terms than in the summer.


Why would Shanghai be so high on the list? It did not seem that expensive to me.


Bay Area isn't really drab and grey though. It's 65 and sunny right now!


Its 16:34, dark and about to snow.

I just fancy a change, I don't want to wake up one morning and think, shit. where has my life gone.

In regards to UK salaries, I think it massively depends on what you're doing in the IT. I've been in mobile and I know the big guns can get pretty insane salaries.

:)


London is expensive, huge, cold...London might have a good tech scene but its still not silicon valley.

Im sure the gay scene in London is perfectly adequate for those who like that sort of thing...


My advice to you is to just do it. I did the same when I was 18 but in the other direction (orem, utah to manchester uk). I just went there w/o a high school diploma or college education - but with a good dose of real world experience - and kept applying for jobs until I found a place that could hook up a work permit for a skilled tech worker. I eventually got a 6 year work permit and loved every minute of it. As it was a "council job" they even payed for my OU courses! I actually had indefinite leave to remain but I lost that as I have not gone back in over 2 years (I have been back in utah almost 3 years now). Essentially - if you have confidence in yourself and your skills you WILL make it work.


I am...humbled by your energy.

But you have to get the legal issues out first. You can't work without authorization in the U.S., period.

SFO is an expensive place to live without a position or freelance clients.

But you will learn.


London isn't exactly cheap either...


True, but it has recently become almost as cheap as Iceland ;-)

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GBPUSD=X#chart2:symbol=gb...


Very true!


You might want to visit, the weather has been unseasonably warm. Tell immigration that you are a tourist on vacation. Don't mention working or trying to find work.

There are hostels in SF where you can stay for cheap. Most are in the Tenderloin/Financial area. I've never seen the inside of those. I have actually stayed at one hostel, to check it out for a traveler friend. Element Hostel. It is in the same building as Medjool, quite possibly the stupidest nightclub in the city. It's a good hostel, though, and I think the only one located outside of downtown. http://www.yelp.com/biz/elements-hotel-san-francisco The mission is a bit grimy but at least its where the young do their thing.

Also I'd actually just do a vacation, the Bay Area is a nice vacation spot. Tons of stuff to do and see.


Thanks, that place looks pretty cool. The second review down made me chuckle.

Nice one, cheers.


Heading to SF for a short period seems like a good idea. Since you don't seem to have a network there, it is probably a good idea to do a recon trip. This also works well with the visa situation. It is probably considerably easier to meet people willing to sponsor you if you meet them in person, so just take a "vacation" to SF and plant your seeds. This also gives you the chance to see if you really like SF, although i would be surprised if you didn't like it. Good luck!


All - I employed Geoff a few years ago and he is a total and uter genius. If I was hiring now, he would be first on the list.

Geoff - I would look at the Central Europe options....happy to intro you to many people in startup land.

Good luck buddy and I am here for ya if you need a reference.


Geoff, you should really add an email address to your profile. My startup isn't bringing on new contractors right now, but when we are you're exactly the kind of person we'd be looking for. Virtually contact-information-pimp yourself out more :)


I just moved to SF from Canada for 8 months. I'm also 19. The process took about two months and cost over $1,000, including health insurance but not the flight. I was lucky because I'm a Canadian citizen, I'm currently attending University (took a term off to be here), I'm returning to finish my degree at the end of it, and I had a job lined up, all of which helped to make things a lot easier.

I admire your sense of adventure, and I don't want to discourage you from moving here. Just be aware that it will involve a fair bit of patience and frustration. Good luck!


If you do make it over, here's a great resource for cheap short-term housing: http://www.airbnb.com/


Corr - very good resource! Thanks!


Pick up freelance clients in the UK, then work remotely in SF for 3 months on the visa waiver? (This is the gist of something I'm considering right now)


While you are looking for more permanent housing, try http://www.couchsurfing.com/ . People offer up spare sleeping space for free. Should let you see where in the bay area you want to stay.


Its looking like my immediate travel plans will become "Will travel once have legal issues ironed out". I'll start sorting this lot out asap.

Thanks for points!

Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr for Geoff.


Note: I'm not ruling any other cities out either. NYC, Boston etc : )


"Dashing. Charming. Modest."

Funny.


can you code? what are your skills?


hows your ruby fu?


Troll!

This guy stole all your little life-plan wet dreams, and spoonfed them right back to you in a Sunday morning gimmick post.

Gold!


Why of course. You can come stay in the closet of my studio apartment. I'll feed you and clothe you until we can find just the right opportunity for your brilliant mind!

I know we're supposed to be "nice," but this is absurd. Go back to school and NEVER say about yourself that you are "dashing" or "charming" - no matter how tongue-in-cheek you try to make it sound, you just come off sounding like the exact opposite.

Upon reading more of your responses, I'm further convinced that you should stay where you are. Nobody cares about your fancy "cross flights." Right now is certainly not the time to abandon everything and come to California.


Please don't get personal like this. If you don't want to help the guy, just don't say anything.


1. I'm not after a freebie, I clearly stated that I'm happy to pay

2. I don't need a personal job-seeker, I'm more than capable (but thanks)

3. I wasn't being tongue-in-cheek - I am, in fact, quite dashing and can be quite charming. But never make a show of it.

4. Are you speaking on behalf of the whole nation? Or just arsehole club?

5. I don't understand why you're on the offence? To be honest, I was pretty impressed with the discussion that come about from my post. Since I posted my initial question some pretty good resources have been mentioned. For instance, Berlin and their scene, then discussion around language barriers.

OK, 3's a joke. But lighten up.




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