Wow, someone has really been chugging on that kool-aid.
> The problem with "X works" type arguments is that, no, no it doesn't, not generally
So, to summarise: what you're saying, in a thread where I demonstrated and you yourself said that X "just works", is that suddenly it doesn't now.
Well I'll be sure to tell my laptop, it's got this thing where it's super stable for weeks at a time. Maybe my laptop hearing that actually it's DE doesn't work and that I imagined all those times I hotplugged my projector is what is needed to magically make wayland usable in the real world.
Accelerated Xwayland clients (GLX)
There is currently no accelerated GLX support when running a GNOME Wayland session no top of the NVIDIA drivers, meaning X11 OpenGL applications will use software rendering.
and:
Mode setting
Mode setting is possible, but the current requirement to use dumb buffers during mode setting before establishing the EGLSurface, EGLDevice CRTC stream link, results in memory constraint issues with multiple monitors with higher resolutions.
Monitor mirroring
Monitor mirroring is currently not possible due to the issue that an EGLSurface can only be linked to a single CRTC. The way GNOME Shell currently does monitor mirroring relies on passing the same hardware buffer to multiple CRTCs, which is currently not supported by the API exposed by the NVIDIA driver.
...Which is just a hilarious, hilarious joke. So in other words, wayland is a complete non-starter for any serious use. But I suppose, to be fair, you won't have to worry about that issue you claim is with X where you say you need to reboot to plug in a second monitor: you just can't have a second monitor! Not if you want it mirrored, or at "higher resolutions"
Hey, just for fun: I bet you can't guess which windowing system has supported all these things for decades?
"Plans are underway to add Wayland support to Xfwm4 while preserving its existing X11 functionality. However, such a restructurization will be a major effort and we cannot tell yet when/if it will be done, so please don't hold your breath waiting for it."
Lol, yep, it's X that doesn't "just work", hahahahaha.
(and no, I wouldn't be holding my breath, would I, given that wayland has now been in development longer than Duke Nukem Forever)
At this point I think you're just arguing in bad faith and you have some strange ideological reasons to cling to X.
As I've already said, if this maintenance effort works out, then great! You, and maybe some other's, can continue to use X and the world will be happy.
I doubt that's going to be the case, but I do actually wish you the best of luck.
Debates, especially on highly subjective issues, will not always be resolved quickly and definitively in the absence of bad faith. That "ideological reasons" you're sensing is the worldview of the person you're talking to.
Wayland works great for me and is significantly more stable and feature-rich, so I'm not waiting for anything. I'm doing things right now that are probably never going to be possible on X just because of the legacy of X.
Obviously, our priorities are different, and probably our hardware too. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe you're horribly unlucky, I don't know. But I will continue to enjoy my higher DPI displays, and HDR, and thunderbolt :p
IMO nvidia cards are pretty much never worth the money. They're really only competitive at the very top end, which isn't where I am or where I think almost anyone else is.
At every other price point, they're just absolutely swept by the competition. Also nvidia in laptops has been a joke for as long as it's existed.
lol. I think you need to jump onto the repos for about 500 ML frameworks and tell them that the only hardware they support well "isn't worth the money".
At this point I think you're just arguing in bad faith and you have some strange ideological reasons to cling to Wayland.
With an attitude like that it'll never be ready for adoption.
> With an attitude like that it'll never be ready for adoption.
An attitude like what? That I... don't like nvidia because they've been actively hostile to OSS for decades? What the fuck do you want me to do about that? It's nvidia's software - if they want to be jackasses then that's not something I, or anyone else on Earth, can fix.
Also what I said about nvidia is 100% factually true.
Nvidia makes good hardware... at the very top end only. Only. Every other price point, they are objectively the worst option. They offer lower rasterization performance and usually it's not even that close.
You're implicitly trying to tell people (as others have more explicitly done) that rather than using the hardware they want to use - for perfectly legitimate reasons (which you've chosen to ignore) - that they should go buy something else, just so that they can adopt your preferred software stack.
I just want you to realise that with every word you type you're digging a deeper hole: when you're digging in, shifting goalposts, ignoring perfectly legitimate issues, and spewing your insane troll logic, what you're doing is making people more hostile and less interested in adopting wayland: I didn't actually give much of a shit before, I just thought wayland was a pretty funny case of vapourware that may or may not come to fruition one day, but now that I see just how evangelical and nonsensically-ideologically-driven some of you rabid fanboys are, It'll take a fairly significant shift to make me want to try it again. Your nonsense trolling here has done wayland a disservice. Congratulations.
I refer you back to this passage in my original anecdote:
"I want to stress that I was *hoping it would work* - I was not out to find a reason not to use wayland"
> don't like nvidia because they've been actively hostile to OSS for decades
Hey guess what? This might come as a shock, but nvidia release drivers for X. And they have for decades. And they work just fine. How do their drivers work on wayland? Oh that's right, they basically don't - I posted links about that what feels like a hundred thousand messages ago. Your reaction was to deflect from that by saying they're not very good anyway. Which completely fails to even attempt to respond to the issue I pointed out.
> Also what I said about nvidia is 100% factually true.
You might note if you read back over the history of this thread that I actually didn't ask for your opinion of nvidia or their hardware at any point. Nor did I ask for an "objective" evaluation of the performance of nvidia cards relative to others. The reason I didn't ask that is because I don't actually give a shit what your opinion about nvidia and their hardware is. I hope this clears things up for you.
> they are objectively the worst option
Not for use cases that explicitly require nvidia cards and don't support anything else.
Also, somewhat related, it seems that like a ton of things I've said, you forgot to address my point that cuda is basically the only game in town when it comes to ML. I guess that must have been an oversight and not at all intentional and ideologically driven deflection.
> The problem with "X works" type arguments is that, no, no it doesn't, not generally
So, to summarise: what you're saying, in a thread where I demonstrated and you yourself said that X "just works", is that suddenly it doesn't now.
Well I'll be sure to tell my laptop, it's got this thing where it's super stable for weeks at a time. Maybe my laptop hearing that actually it's DE doesn't work and that I imagined all those times I hotplugged my projector is what is needed to magically make wayland usable in the real world.
---
Bwahahahahaha!
So I did about 5 minutes of searching, and found: https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/Wayland/NVIDIA
and: ...Which is just a hilarious, hilarious joke. So in other words, wayland is a complete non-starter for any serious use. But I suppose, to be fair, you won't have to worry about that issue you claim is with X where you say you need to reboot to plug in a second monitor: you just can't have a second monitor! Not if you want it mirrored, or at "higher resolutions"Hey, just for fun: I bet you can't guess which windowing system has supported all these things for decades?
One more fun one, from: https://www.xfce.org/about/tour420
Lol, yep, it's X that doesn't "just work", hahahahaha.(and no, I wouldn't be holding my breath, would I, given that wayland has now been in development longer than Duke Nukem Forever)
I think we're about done here.
> If nobody wants to maintain it
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44207353