I interacted with Andre on and off for years when running my first company. The company built hardware for web caching, which is a disk-limited task, so we were constantly on the edge of low-cost disk technology (we also built big SCSI boxes, but the low-end ATA boxes were much more popular), so we tickled lots of bugs in the ATA drivers, and shipped out lots of boxes running on his pre-release ATA drivers. It was always, always, always, a pleasure to work with him. Not because he was nice (though he was always more than civil to me, perhaps because my issue reports were concise and complete and reproduce-able), though he was nicer than some of the other folks we were working with (Han Reiser was perhaps the most cantankerous, aside from Linus). But, the important thing was that he was impressively competent. I'd send him a kernel oops and he'd fix it by the next day, sometimes after a couple of back-and-forth communications or having him login to a box where he could replicate it, usually along with an amusing explanation of why the hardware implementation was broken. I think it would be difficult to overstate how important he was during those important growth years for Linux; without reliable and fast hard disk drivers, a system is crippled, and he single-handedly built a significant portion of the ATA drivers during that period.
I never met him in person or knew him on a real personal level, but I considered him a great ally of the things I care most about (software freedom and reliable software, in particular). I hate to see him go, and I'm sorry his family has to go through this. I know that he inspired many developers to stand up for software freedom as well as technically sound implementations, not because he preached about it but because he lived it, every day.
All I can think about is his four young children. The man took his own life, and that's that. But his kid didn't do anything to have deserved a childhood knowing their father committed suicide. Some of the kids may even blame themselves for a big chunk of their lives for what happened.
I wish he could have found a way and the courage to live on -- for the sake of his children.
A man having committed suicide is sad. But four children growing up without their father is a real tragedy.
I know this sounds harsh, but from my own experience with friends and family (2 family members, 6 friends gone) committing suicide this was MANY years in the making; far before he had kids. That makes it a real shame; like many (most!) people, he shouldn't have had kids in the first place. I feel very sorry for them and his wife, this shouldn't have happened. And most likely could've been prevented. Especially with the kids in mind, this is a tough one.
When someone dies in circumstances like this the people near to them are going to be very traumatised. Out of respect for them, you should keep your opinions to yourself. Using words like "unforgivable", "coward", and "duty" in the context of someone you appear not to have known is inappropriate and offensive.
That's your opinion. I don't think other people who are contemplating the same thing are helped by me (or anyone else) keeping things to myself.
Edit: changed my wording. I'm Dutch, we don't beat around the bush, but you have a point, I can say it differently. I will use those words for the people I did know. I do think that people should talk more; it is just strange how this happens if you actually HAVE people who care about you around you.
I know it isn't. That's not what i'm saying. He decided to have kids so he has to do anything he can, including any help from any medical office in the world to go on and be there for his kids. If that all fails, sure. But I bet he didn't do that. Like I said; I know kind of a lot of people who did the same thing; you didn't notice anything and most of them NEVER went to a doctor even once about it. I don't know the details of course, maybe he did. One of the suicides I know was a mother of my then girlfriend; she went in and out of clinics (lock up!) and couldn't be cured; she had everything from electroshocks to all anti-depressants; that was understandable. If you cannot live you cannot live. But at least 6 of the 8 I knew intimate NEVER sought help, asked a doctor or showed ANY signs; they were 'happy and smiling' one day, next day hanging from the ceiling. You cannot tell me that's ok if you have kids (or a mother). It's not rational, but it takes YEARS to form a 'tumor' like that and there are definitely enough rational times during that period you could seek help. And not have kids, because you do know you have this tendency.
Edit: I am pro euthanasia, but it should be discussed; most cases are fixable, the ones which aren't well aren't.
@erre below (I cannot reply): we agree, the moment itself definitely not rational (that's probably why so many people actually change their minds during the fall from the Golden Gate; there is a good documentary about that), however during the years and years of getting to that point there are rational moments. Your friend went to seek help ; that was rational. It does not have to be continues; it's just sad to see how many people do this without ANYONE actually knowing they even had anything like that on their minds. My cousin was an upbeat, happy guy; he was always the most cheerful and nicest person you could have around. He had tons of girls around him and a steady girlfriend. He went for a drive, cheerful as ever, from his house, left a note + a tape for the funeral. No-one had a clue. A forest ranger found him in his car. That's just weak, really, especially considering his note explained the years he spent coping with this and that he couldn't take it. The moment itself was not rational by any means, however the YEARS before and the show he put up was.
Again, you're being rational. I completely agree with you.
Except that I have close contact with someone who suffers from depression, and I know it's very hard. She sought help, and is much better. But, during crises, none of this matters. You cannot argue with them, try to get them to see reason. Cause and effect just don't get through to them.
I know it's exasperating. My initial reaction was to get angry, to tell her the same "you know this and that", until I realised it was completely beyond her control. I'm very, very happy she got better, but I fully realise that if she had jumped out of a window at some point, it would not have been a rational decision; it would not have been "irresponsible" (the concept wouldn't even apply); and she would have sees absolutely no other course of action she would have been capable of having taken. It's very sad, and very hard to deal with.
Reply link just appeared; we agree, the moment itself definitely not rational (that's probably why so many people actually change their minds during the fall from the Golden Gate; there is a good documentary about that), however during the years and years of getting to that point there are rational moments. Your friend went to seek help ; that was rational. It does not have to be continues; it's just sad to see how many people do this without ANYONE actually knowing they even had anything like that on their minds. My cousin was an upbeat, happy guy; he was always the most cheerful and nicest person you could have around. He had tons of girls around him and a steady girlfriend. He went for a drive, cheerful as ever, from his house, left a note + a tape for the funeral. No-one had a clue. A forest ranger found him in his car. That's just weak, really, especially considering his note explained the years he spent coping with this and that he couldn't take it. The moment itself was not rational by any means, however the YEARS before and the show he put up was.
One bit of trouble (of many) is that there's tremendous pressure to act happy even if you're not. People rarely react well when you act the way you feel, if you're feeling like that. People often take it personally. They get upset at you for not being happy. They think they've done something to make you unhappy. They feel at fault, even though they're not. It's easier to put up an act than just be yourself.
I think a lot of this comes down to a very poor understanding of mental illness in the general population. Nobody has a problem if you can't play frisbee with your friends because you broke your legs. But if you don't want to play frisbee with your friends because you brain is sick, their frame of mind is completely different. They're not thinking of it as a disease, with your mental state being just as much of an uncontrollable symptom as the inability to run is out of the control of the person with the broken leg.
We need to better educate people on this stuff. I'm sure that discussions like this help, as long as they don't go off the rails into misinformation.
Well, like any other disease, some of us can't afford the time or money to get it diagnosed and treated. We just have to keep going despite it, and ignoring the reality that it's a disease is helpful in this respect.
But his kid didn't do anything to have deserved a childhood knowing their father committed suicide.
But nobody deserves anything in life, neither good nor bad. What is good? What is bad? We have no promises for anything. Why things happen? For some reason unbeknownst to anyone, he and his closest people chose to participate in such a tragedy. It wasn't him choosing to commit suicide alone nor it wasn't his closest family members choosing to live through an event of suicide but that they all shared a bond that invited them to such a course of life where one of them takes his own life. Nobody knows why but nobody's in it for nothing. There are lessons to be learned and facts to be faced. People have to deal with things and that's why they're living their lives--to deal with things (that are uncomfortable). Some of the people might not make it, some might rise above. There's a course of life for everyone but it depends on how they take it, not what happened.
'For some reason unbeknownst to anyone, he and his closest people chose to participate in such a tragedy. It wasn't him choosing to commit suicide alone'
What do you mean by "his closest people chose to participate in such a tragedy" and "it wasn't him choosing to commit suicide alone"?
Do you think they were members of a random family who just happened to witness their husband and father coincidentally decide to commit suicide while still a member of that family? That they all weren't in for that tragedy earlier in time, probably from the beginning? Because if you do, surely and lastly now at least they all are part of it. And that begs the question of not whether it was coming but where it was coming from and who saw it coming. Things like these don't surface from a vacuum.
He always seemed a contentious and argumentative sort on LKML. So it was good to see that the author had a much different experience with him. Sad that Andre wasn't able to find a way to carry on. Thoughts and condolences to his family.
I knew him personally for last few years as his colleague. It was very saddening to know about his demise and shocking to know he took his life. He was always very jovial and cracking jokes all around. My heart goes out to his four children, who were aged between 5 to 14. While I knew he had some personal issues, but never thought these could lead him to suicide. I wish I knew more and did more. RIP Andre!
Wow. Thank you Mr. Hedrick for fighting the good fight and "keeping the PC open." We're still in the nascence of the computing era and I think many years from now, this man's efforts and the efforts of others like him will be viewed as being even more important than they are now.
I think a guy like that would not have any trouble finding another job. It's more likely he was suffering from severe depression, a complex and sometimes tragically undiagnosed illness. Sad to see him go. I see he died on the same day as my mom two weeks ago :-(
I think I need to alert one thing - particularly on a page like this. If in your settings you have 'showDead' set to on, then you will see a incoherent comment at the bottom of this page from losethos.
Some of you folks might remember a discussion involving Losethos sometime back on HN. I can't find the discussion but here is the article which was discussed: http://qaa.ath.cx/LoseThos.html . In that article, one kind person had taken some effort to understand the reasons behind such incoherent comments.
I am not sure that people who marked the comment as dead, are aware of that discussion. Perhaps we need a policy at HN to handle such situations better.
PS: I got the above link by doing this search 'site:news.ycombinator.com losethos' on google. You can also see some more comments on the same here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4189669. But can't find that original discussion
I never met him in person or knew him on a real personal level, but I considered him a great ally of the things I care most about (software freedom and reliable software, in particular). I hate to see him go, and I'm sorry his family has to go through this. I know that he inspired many developers to stand up for software freedom as well as technically sound implementations, not because he preached about it but because he lived it, every day.