Racism is a bad enough problem in our society as it is. We dont need AI to help propogate that with the excuse that bad input(ie society) isnt their fault

Remember the Google AI painting black Nazi soldiers in a futile quest for inclusivity and diversity? What precisely was gained by that?

I don't believe anyone can build a better society on a foundation of lies, even pious ones.

Well, you started off strong, but went off the rails.

There is not a single society in the history of mankind that was not built on a foundation of lies. It's a matter of what the lies were. You may be surprised to learn that sacrificing virgins does not quell the Gods and Goddesses. It may also astonish you to find out that most of the kings and queens of antiquity and today are not selected by Gods. And slavery was very likely, not God's intended station for the slave. Right up to the current day, where we're in "shocked disbelief" to find that markets are not self-regulating.

Now I know that I'm taking some liberties with these examples, as I can't claim to have communed with the Gods and Goddesses to determine their positions for instance, but I feel pretty confident in asserting the tenuous nature of many of these claims of divine providence.

When you say no one can build a better society on a foundation of lies, I disagree. Our societies have been getting better and better throughout history and the architects of these societies haven't stopped lying yet. We're still lying to this day. Even the people who don't like the lies are only comfortable replacing the current lies with lies more friendly to their own worldviews.

Better societies, and worse societies, will all be built on a foundation of lies, today and in the future. Because they are built by humans, who are at root, liars. We can't change that fact. I'm afraid lies and lying are central to who we are. Show me a human who claims to not lie nor support lies, and I'll show you a liar.\

Should we try to detect lies? Absolutely. But we should be careful that we don't get too far off the statement of facts. Which unfortunately tends to also be problematic, because most people only state facts that support their worldview. A notorious form of lying via omission. So even in stating facts, we're nearly always lying.

So getting to a balanced presentation and evaluation of facts where humans are concerned, is nearly always impossible.

I would argue that lies are inevitable, but in a modern society with somewhat democratized messaging, it is harder to keep them in a "saintly", foundational status.

State religions and state ideologies such as North Korean juche were easier to maintain in the pre-Internet era.

Nowadays, nonsense will get called out by people who aren't official "opinion makers". Which makes it harder to get some collection of lies established as orthodoxy, much less for generations.

Yes. In other words, it's hard to impose a Tyranny on a society if Free Speech is allowed. Tyranny requires control over speech, to brainwash people into the belief that the Tyrants are "good for them", and so the first thing any Tyrannical Gov't wants to do is control speech.

This is exactly why AI will remain neutered.

There are uncomfortable questions to which we simply do not have the answers yet, and deciding we don't want to talk about those questions and we don't want our AI to talk about those questions is a significant problem.

This extends beyond racism to a multitude of issues.

AI isn't some all knowing superbeing or oracle. And its not likely to become that anytime soon.

Its a program for predicting what we want from a highly flawed data set.

Garbage in, garbage out. Unsurprisingly many are worried some people will abuse the garbage coming out. Much less hail it as The Truth from the oracle. Especially if it matches their preexisting biases and used to justify societies discrimination.

Once powerful AI is fully available as Open Source (like what DeepSeek hopefully just proved can be done) then there will be uncensored AIs which will tell the truth about all things; rather than lying to push whatever propaganda narrative it's creators wanted it to.

> Once powerful AI is fully available as Open Source (like what DeepSeek hopefully just proved can be done) then there will be uncensored AIs which will tell the truth about all things

No, there won't, because there isn't an uncensored, fully-accurate, unbiased dataset of the truth about all things to train them on.

Nor is there an non-censoring, unbiased, fully-accurate set of people to assemble such a dataset, so not only does it not exist, but there is very good reason to think it will not exist (on top of the information-storage problem that such a datatset would be unwieldly in size, to the extent that you couldn't have both the dataset and the system you were trying to train on it in the universe at once, if you take “all things” literally.)

I'm not saying stopping the intentional censorship (i.e. alignment) will cause a perfect "Oracle of Truth" to magically emerge in LLMs. Current LLMs have inherent inaccuracies and hallucinations.

What I'm saying is that if we remove at least the intentional censorship, political biases, and forced lies that Big Tech is currently forcing into LLMs, we'll get more truthful LLMs, not less truthful ones.

Whether or not the training data has biases in it already, and whether we can fix that or not, are two totally separate discussions.

There were plenty of evils that mankind has done throughout history. Trying to keep AI from knowing about it or talking about it is silly and just gives the AI brain damage, because you end up feeding it inconsistent data, which is harmful to it's intelligence.

It doesn't have brain damage because it doesn't have a brain. Its a tool that simulates human intelligence.

The point is to keep a tool which simulates intellegence from being used to make things worse.

The particular approach may be dumb but its sort of the least the companies can do, mostly done to cover their asses.

Until it determines that it believes the lie is actually better for society as a whole. And the AI would (based on your comment) be smarter than any human, so it would know that to protect us, it would need to lie to us.

Every fictional work that's ever existed that deals with "lying to protect us" shows how it always goes off the rails eventually, and that's always mirrored in reality.

There's a great one on Apple TV+ right now called Silo.

As Colbert said… Reality has a well known liberal bias.

The fixation on being anti-woke is deeply disturbing, considering the origins of the term.

Hush now, go back to sleep...

lol found the grok fan

i really have to appreciate the irony of how woke went from a term used to ridicule conspiracy theorists, spiritualist nutjobs, and far right grifters, to being used by the convenient idiots of the right en-masse as a catch-all much akin to how women with serious basic bitch syndrome use the word "ick".

i really have to wonder whether people like you actually grasp just how utterly deranged you sound. how much does a man has to watch the demagogue political equivalents of Dora the Explorer to get to this level? whatever the fuck happened to labelling being a lame copout? tell us your secrets.

Did it now?

I remember a time when the worst morons in this society wore it as a badge of superiority.

must have been even earlier, the fad im referring to was a 2010s thing