I agree that tests should occur in the environment they are to be run in, when ever possible. Otherwise not...
There is no science in testing. There are no standardised definitions. We agree it is good, we often ignore the downsides (they exist - there are costs to tests)
I have struck examples where the testing frameworks of a language (Dart in this case) ruled out using a live HTTPS client to test. I kept getting 404 errors running it against my (test) site. I made a bug report. The good folks at Google (who I am sure are very smart - if a little stupid) had decided that the HTTPS client would always return 404 when run as part of the testing framework.
I argued, but apparently I am not so smart (I am less stupid, IMO). The HTTPS client testing had to either occur outside the test framework, or I rewrite the HTTPS client, or I wrote a mock up of some sort, all things I would have to pay for with time and effort - for no gain.
I get the point about mocking. But I am in business. I am not interested in always testing in isolation, (sometimes, sure), I want my tests to depend on the other parts of my business.
If the database goes wrong and my Gui tool test discovers it, that is a good thing, not a bad thing
I agree that tests should occur in the environment they are to be run in, when ever possible. Otherwise not...
There is no science in testing. There are no standardised definitions. We agree it is good, we often ignore the downsides (they exist - there are costs to tests)
I have struck examples where the testing frameworks of a language (Dart in this case) ruled out using a live HTTPS client to test. I kept getting 404 errors running it against my (test) site. I made a bug report. The good folks at Google (who I am sure are very smart - if a little stupid) had decided that the HTTPS client would always return 404 when run as part of the testing framework.
I argued, but apparently I am not so smart (I am less stupid, IMO). The HTTPS client testing had to either occur outside the test framework, or I rewrite the HTTPS client, or I wrote a mock up of some sort, all things I would have to pay for with time and effort - for no gain.
I get the point about mocking. But I am in business. I am not interested in always testing in isolation, (sometimes, sure), I want my tests to depend on the other parts of my business.
If the database goes wrong and my Gui tool test discovers it, that is a good thing, not a bad thing