> One-way fares from €59.99 second class or €69.99 first class.
The “from” bit is worth to stress here: with DB (German railway company), one-way fares may be up to €233.00 for second class or €384.00 for first class, depending on demand, the cancellation policy you choose, and how long you book in advance. Seat reservations are extra.
I travel from Zurich to Hannover fairly regularly (about 7 hour train journey) and it generally costs 59 to 89 EUR each way first class, booked supersaver (fixed train) a week or two in advance with a 1st class Bahncard 25. The return is usually in the region of 140 to 160 EUR.
From my point of view, DB trains are cheap, and first class is reasonably comfortable with a power point and meals ordered to your seats.
Punctuality is a different matter of course.
(I just checked the prices for a late January return trip I'll be doing, and right now it's 100 EUR return, 53 / 47 for the legs.)
as a frequent and spontaneous traveler, i was never able to book fixed trains so far in advance. this inflexibility adds stress that i really would like to avoid. it ruins the experience because it takes away the spontaneity
I pay more than that to go back to my hometown by TGV which is less than 200km away from Paris and that’s with a subscription giving access to preferential prices.
There is no way Paris-Berlin is going to be this cheap. From experience I expect the train to be at least twice more expensive than flying.
Having worked a few years with SNCF, it can’t be otherwise. It’s the most mismanaged company I have ever worked for, gangrened by unions which fight tooth and nails to preserve advantages which reasons to exist disappeared decades ago. Unions review the full trains planning with management before it’s validated and veto any optimisations which would cut overtime or might impact compensations without any regards for customers. It’s revolting.
Before leaving France I often travelled by train and felt exactly the same way: a total ripoff for the service they offer...In Spain you'll also get trains that arrive late but they're usually cleaner and the price is much more affordable, and they don't go on strike as often as in strike land.
I've read about that, and it definitely seems like a shit show. It's about time these things change. Since I got here I mostly travel by train and I know that it's a privilege, it should be the norm in these developed countries. Anyway, hang in there and good luck.
> gangrened by unions which fight tooth and nails to preserve advantages which reasons to exist disappeared decades ago. Unions review the full trains planning with management before it’s validated and veto any optimisations which would cut overtime or might impact compensations without any regards for customers. It’s revolting
I've heard that before, but usually from the crowd that wants to privatise the whole country anyway. I understand that you're claiming to have witnessed it, but do you have some sources?
Surely, the amount of money they pour onto Cap Gemini and many other consulting firms to rebuild existing systems instead of having teams in-house who could maintain them must have an impact on ticket costs...
> I understand that you're claiming to have witnessed it, but do you have some sources?
I have witnessed that and more like optimisation software being disabled to avoid cutting into overtime. Just go take a look at how drivers are paid and where their comp comes from. It’s all public knowledge. Take a look at the recurring reports from the court of auditors or talk with anyone working there.
We are talking about a company in which the two main unions are openly Trotskyist and which has a permanent strike warning by rotating between union to open one in defiance of French law.
This is not drum beating for privatisation by the way (even if all the formerly public French companies I had the misfortune to work for are fairly mismanaged but nothing as bad as SNCF thankfully). I am sure with enough reforms it could work while being public. I mean Singapore manages so it’s not impossible.
It’s just impossible to wonder why France is in such a sorry state after having working for anything publicly managed in France. The French state carves exception for itself in all the labour laws because they know their administration is so poor they can’t respect them.
As an American reading this I feel like there's some nuance being lost in translation. Taken to their logical extremes we've seen what things like optimization software (East Palestine), banning strikes (PATCO and current ATC staffing woes), privatization (ATC again — see any video on youtube about the KSQL controller), and weak labor laws (pretty much every fatigue related crash e.g. Colgan Air) bring about. And it's not pretty.
Certainly privatization can work. JR seems to have a decent reputation (obviously not without fault). But gaming things like overtime rules is a cultural problem, one that you're not going to solve with mandates or privatization. For quite a while the drivers at San Francisco's public transit agency were forbidden to strike. Instead you'd get sickouts and work slowdowns.
The working conditions at SNCF are not even imaginable for an American.
We are taking unlimited sick days, between 28 and 38 days off a year excluding sick days, 10 bank holidays, retirement between 50 and 60 with pensions calculated on the last few years of work, subvention on train tickets for family members. That’s while working less than 40 hours a week and despite that they still manage to strike at least a week a year generally when it’s the most annoying for people actually working.
> between 28 and 38 days off a year excluding sick days, 10 bank holidays
25 days is the legal minimum, more is common in many industries, including most engineering fields. Of course we all have the same bank holidays in the country.
> retirement between 50 and 60 with pensions calculated on the last few years of work
Yep, that's a good one. A relic from when their life expectancy was much shorter due to coal. Indeed that's hard to justify.
> subvention on train tickets for family members
Annoying too... but I'm not sure it's significant.
> That’s while working less than 40 hours a week
The legal working time in France is 35h/week, if you do more than that your employer must compensate in a way or another. That SNCF abides by that law isn't shocking, what is shocking is that our NHS doesn't.
> they still manage to strike at least a week a year generally when it’s the most annoying for people actually working.
The latest strike was about the freight branch that is being sold to competitors to please the EU commission... Not exactly a request for more champagne next to the coffee machine of the drivers. [0]
I, too, dislike the SNCF because my trains are unreliable and expensive, and their customer support is absolute rubbish, but you clearly are arguing in bad faith and repeating whatever is in our current wave of reactionary media, all without having provided a single source yet.
You do realise that I’m not arguing in bad faith but pointing things which are not obvious to our American friends who often have 10 days of leaves including sick days. I know that the working conditions in France are insane for everyone. Still they are even better for cheminots. Even you have to acknowledge it reading my comment (and no advantages for family members are not negligible).
I have given sources: I told you to go read the reports for the national court of auditors.
Nothing of what I wrote is reactionary by the way. I have actually worked for the damn company which is a lot more than you can say.
> The latest strike was about the freight branch that is being sold to competitors to please the EU commission
The heart of the issue is that the drivers are not going to be cheminots anymore. It’s entirely about champagne and coffee machines. They are worried that it’s going to end like Geodis, which is profitable while being owned by SNCF, because it’s out of the circus and operated like an actual private company, which, Sud and CGT being good communists, is the worst thing imaginable.
The price really depends how much in advance you are booking, DB price are outrages on the same day but unbelivable cheap three weeks before, i really dont get the business logic behind that, the spread is like 19.99 to 240
That's not my experience at all. I live in France with no car and I don't fly domestic (obviously).
I'll do Paris to Lyon (400 km) during peak holidays in next few days. That's €192 back and forth, for 2 persons. And I don't have any preferential prices.
I'll go further than Lyon, right to a ski station actually. That's another €100 for 2 persons, back and forth.
So that's about 1300 km at €150 /pax at one of the most expensive time of the year.
The “from” bit is worth to stress here: with DB (German railway company), one-way fares may be up to €233.00 for second class or €384.00 for first class, depending on demand, the cancellation policy you choose, and how long you book in advance. Seat reservations are extra.