Doesn’t work for me, my natural cycle would have me not aligned with the sun and the rest of the world operates aligned with the sun

You are not getting what I'm laying down.

I'm not saying this at all.

Have an alarm clock, have a schedule. But don't stress about it or "optimize" it. Just do it.

I was responding to this: > Sleep when you're tired, work and play when you're not.

I don’t get tired on a good cadence so this doesn’t work for me. I have to follow a schedule that’s independent of how awake, motivated, or tired I feel.

I get what you are saying too, but it is privileged to assume people can "just" unbind their natural cycle.

It's like telling someone who is lactose intolerant to "just" eat their cereal with milk.

I'm not saying anything about your schedule. You do you.

What I am saying is adding another layer of stress and yet another thing to optimize on top of all that does nothing but make it worse.

In terms of the analogy you gave: I'm not saying drink milk, I'm saying stop worrying about it and drink oat milk. Spend that energy elsewhere in your life in things that are more easily effected by your efforts.

I think I agree with what you’re saying - adding systems on top of something that doesn’t need it isn’t worth it. I agree; however, some folks can’t “just” follow their natural tiredness to manage their sleep.

You said “sleep when you are tired”.

Lots of people can’t do that, we need to manage our sleep. The thing that helped me not worry about sleep was the routine. But that needs to be maintained and tweaked. I don’t worry about it, but have to think about it.

Can you please elaborate as to why?

Do you have a health condition that requires you to manage your sleep? Pragmatically how does that shake out?

I was not speaking to those with medical conditions or similar. It was more general advice that helped me in the past for those who don't have sleep conditions, but are giving themselves one because they're needlessly worrying about or optimizing it.

I can easily stay awake and alert for 20 hours at a time. That is not conducive to staying on a good schedule

this is the correct answer for sleep. learning this has been more effective than any medicine that currently exists. if you're reading this and think this approach doesn't apply to you - it does. and the great thing is that it fixes much more than sleep.