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> Counterfeiting is a major concern.

To who? Suppose I buy some "Parmesan cheese" and it tastes exactly like Parmesan cheese. What's the problem supposed to be?

In what sense is the cheese counterfeit at all?




Procedures and ingredients quality are not respected in counterfeit products (for example it's acceptable, in the us, for grated parmesan to have cellulose/wood pulp in it) and they still sell you the stuff at a high price. i don't think anyone died because of these products but if you take fake parmigiano it's a $2B market.

https://www.foodandwine.com/news/amount-wood-pulp-grated-par...

https://www.cnet.com/home/kitchen-and-household/parmesan-che...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2012/11/19/the-dar...


Prepackaged grated parmesan needs an anti-caking additive no matter where in the world you live. Cellulose isn't bad for you, in moderation. So the issue is not whether your prepackaged parmesan has cellulose added, it's how much was added.

If you don't like it then you should buy solid parmesan and grate it yourself. In the US or anywhere else.


It's also not something unique to Parmesan, all shredded cheese has additives to prevent it turning into a cheese ball again. Kind of the nature of shredded cheese


Why would European sellers hide the additives then? Especially with stricter labelling+food standards.

https://iperdrive.iper.it/spesa-online/it/seriate/parmigiano...


Congrats on finding one without cellulose. That is also possible in the US.

Powdered cellulose is an Annex II food additive in the EU - E 460(ii) - and is an allowed food additive to any grated or sliced whey cheese, quantum satis (the manufacturer can use as much of it as they need to use, because it is considered harmless) [1]

This is EXACTLY the same situation as the US.

[1] https://ec.europa.eu/food/food-feed-portal/screen/food-addit...

My statement a few comments above was a brain fart :) The larger the grated pieces, the less anti-caking agents you would need. It completely slipped my mind and I suspect that the cheese linked above would be larger pieces of parmesan. Still, if exposed to the high humidity present in some parts of the US (less common in Italy), the cheese in that package would eventually become a clumpy mess if not fully consumed quickly :)

You have to understand that lots of people seem to enjoy parmesan as essentially a powder. I have no idea why, that is certainly not my preference. However, there is demand for parmesan "powder" and the market therefore supplies it. Powdered cellulose is the only way to make that happen.


"Still, if exposed to the high humidity present in some parts of the US (less common in Italy)"

Italy is basically a massive peninsula and some islands - it's quite humid! The humidity in Parma itself today is 65%, which is the same as Miami, Florida today and more than New Orleans. it's fall in Italy, and in Palermo it's 80% humidity, in Bergamo 84%, Bologna 83% etc.


no, it's not the only way, here's grated parmesan with absolutely no cellulose: https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/sainsburys-fresh...


I'll have to correct you here, while i am sure you can find (as i found) real parmigiano or in general good cheese in the states (by paying a lot of money for it) the law allows for additives to be added to it. In europe this is illegal, you cannot have additives in parmigiano (solid or grated), and if found normally the product is retired from the market.

In general the FDA in the US is much more liberal in favour of the industry, sacrificing quality and this apply to several products.

(For example i found out that in the US the minimum amount of chocolate that has to be present in a chocolate product is like 10% and in europe is 25% (if i am not wrong) and the amount of max sugar is also different.

Said this, you can eat all the cellulose you feel like eating, but I think it's wrong to 1) charge for it as if it was parmigiano and 2) sell it as an italian product.

ps regarding your humidity comment

"Alaska is one of the most humid states! In fact, Alaska reports an average RH of 77%, with the next highest state, Florida, reporting a 74% average. Despite Florida being hot and balmy, Alaska has high humidity levels because of its milder, lower temperatures."

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Italy/humidity-annual...


Parmesano Reggiano has to come from the Parma region of Italy and is certified by some consortium of cheese makers I think. Same thing with San Marzano tomatoes.

There's not a problem per-se, but the issue is that in all reality you'd probably be getting an inferior product. The exclusivity is done so that consumers can be ensured that they are getting cheese from a specific area with specific criteria.


The same could be said about anything. Clothes, watches, cars, hell even medicine.

If it is indistinguishable, is it different? It starts to get a bit philosophical from there on in.

I think though fakes tend to be significantly worse quality because they want to make loads of profit. I can't see cheese fraudsters going to the same lengths of maturation and all that because why bother.


Consumer safety is the reason we have brand name products in the first place. Mutually assured destruction if the brand starts putting lead in soap.


If you paid for Parmesan cheese and got something else, I’d say that’s already a problem. We are not even taking into consideration that counterfeit food products adhere to no food safety standards.


I guess real Parmesan cheese complies with the food safety regulations of Parma, while most knock off (for example) American brands will comply with the local food safety regulations.

I mean… I dunno, it isn’t as if I actually believe my country has sane regulations. But I’ve presumably already eaten lots of American sawdust in my powdered cheese products, how bad could it be for me? What kind of sawdust do they have in Parma?


You might find this hard to believe, but they don’t actually put sawdust in any product labeled “parmigiano reggiano” in Parma.

And it’s not just about that. “Parmesan” in the US doesn’t have to abide by… basically anything. It doesn’t need to be aged. It doesn’t need to be milk of any particular quality. It can include any ingredients. It has no definitional requirements at all, other than needing to plausibly be cheese.


So you've already forgotten the melamine incident with milk products from China.


> If you paid for Parmesan cheese and got something else, I’d say that’s already a problem.

Kind of an ironic claim in a discussion of Cheddar cheese.


To people who want to use the mark or origin to distinguish between quality goods and garbage before they buy them instead of after they taste them. You know, the primary use of a mark of origin.

You may have noticed that you supposed the opposite of what I supposed, for sanity’s sake.


Louis Vuitton fake bag may look 1:1 from good enough distance yet for some reason people keep buying them... what's the problem supposed to be? And that's before going into topic of being European and actually appreciating heritage, place of origin, craft skills etc. that go into making one of these.


What makes you think it will actually taste exactly the same?


For the example Parmesan cheese vs PDO (Protected Designation of Origin, under European law) Parmesan Reggiano cheese, the differences are in flavour and texture. It is absolutely possible to make Parmesan that matches PDO Parmesan Reggiano cheese outside of that region, but if you don't have the stamp (or counterfeit the stamp), you can't charge a premium price.

The same applies to a laundry list of food ingredients and products, including wines, cheeses, teas, produce, and meat. PDO isn't the only such scheme, several countries have their own appelation programs.

From a counterfeiting perspective there are three major concerns - misleading the consumer, economic harm to the cheesemakers in the region of origin, and potential food safety.

In terms of misleading the consumer, mass market parmesan cheese is usually produced with pasteurized milk vs raw milk and cured for 10 months vs 24 months. It is often sold ground into a fine powder to conceal the lower quality texture, and the flavour profile is substantially different. When cooking with 10 month cured cheese vs 24 month cured cheese, there is a noticeable difference in how the cheese melts and incorporates into different foods which can result in downstream lower quality foods (in terms of presentation and flavour, nutritionally the differences are negligable).

In terms of economic harm, parmesan cheese is substantially cheaper to produce, and has a retail price as low as $~0.50/ounce. PDO Parmesan ranges in price from $~1.50/ounce for 2 year aged, and as high as $~10/ounce (note my prices are converted from CAD to USD, and based on prices from the cheese market near me, prices may vary by market). If a counterfeiter can sell parmesan as PDO Parmesan Reggiano, they command a significant margin, even if they sell it much cheaper than the retail price).

In terms of health risks, PDO and other Appelation designations often require audits or reviews of production process to ensure compliance and quality control. Fake PDO Parm made with unpasteurized milk and not handled properly can bring the risks of using raw milk to the consumer - properly made PDO Parm results in a cured and extremely low moisture product that should destroy most of the bacteria and molds. Even minor changes in the production process can make the resulting product unsafe or higher risk for consumption.


It's funny to get down in the weeds of the low standards of the American product when it's often sold next to a container labeled topping and mostly comprised of powdered whey.




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