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Apple is the closest you get today. You can even pay a premium for it!





Given apple was part of PRISM and, you only pay premium for the pr.

I'm apple hater but you got to recognize they do better at privacy than Google.

If you care about the NSA, then you better not have any phone. Whatever it's a android, iphone, grapheneos, anything. Israel blowing up pagers is a proof that nothing is impossible to them.

But if you want to say fuck off to the big data harvester like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and so on.. then apple isn't bad at all.

You just got to deal with the usual apple bullshit, no side loading, repairability, thunderbolt charger, no headphone jack, etc.


Shin Bet and friends don't have a magic wand making pagers explode. NSA can't circumvent math. Etc.

This 'but X will get you anyway if they want' or '5$ wrench' is used by alot of people I know to rationalize selling themself out privacy wize.


Your privacy is as strong as your weakest Link. NSA only need one a few vulnerability to be able to monitor what you do, it may be on chip maker, network provider, operating system, compiler, etc..

That's a lost battle, if they want to see what you do, they do and there is nothing one can do but force them legally not to do so.


> But if you want to say fuck off to the big data harvester like Google

They literally sell your traffic to Google.


I am sure there is a name for this fallacy, but being better yet not enough at something where bar for reaching privacy is so high isn't cutting it. The result is the same, sans warm fuzzy feeling not anchored in sad reality of 2024.

We always use "Perfect being enemy of good"

>do better at privacy than Google

so instead of an actual improvement just settle for second least worst? ironically google pixels are 100 times more private than any apple device will ever be because you can securely run your own 100% controlled open source OS such as grapheneos.org which is an actual private as in feature not marketing OS.


A phone has several levels of software and hardware, the OS that the user knows is not in charge of communications, its main role is to interface the user to the computer inside the phone. The phone OS sees the phone communication hardware akin to the way it sees an Ethernet card. The phone communication hardware (named baseband modem) is also under control of the SIM and every time the mobile operator wants to change the behavior of the baseband modem it can through the Sim toolkit.

sadly firmware is a bitch on almost any modern device. good thing it can more or less be isolated from the OS

https://grapheneos.org/faq#baseband-isolation


Believing the software can somehow be separated from the hardware is a lie. They can mitigate at best the the amount of information one can extract but at the end whoever control the hardware can have access to extremely private information.

A gyroscope sensor is able to accurately record what one say close to his phone. It doesn’t even need Android to run he has access to private information.

https://crypto.stanford.edu/gyrophone/files/gyromic.pdf


OK, but still:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple–FBI_encryption_dispute

Apple's reaction to a number of such things has been to further enhance encryption.

They go to a good deal of trouble to make things they can't break. Look at the new cloud compute model they're introducing:

https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/

And if you've missed it, note the prior "verified contact" key exchange added to iMessages, as well as the "sorry we can't read your backups to help you recover your data" security added to iCloud (provided you only use devices up-to-date and opted in). This one is a customer service nightmare, they added it anyway.

All that said, this article is less interesting since (a) if your cell phone uses a telco, "they" know where you are, and where you've been, no Apple needed; and (b) unlike Apple segmenting your Maps directions to prevent themselves from knowing where you are going, Google's always been about your location.


Counterpoint:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41184153

Apple was caught issuing issuing OCSP queries (hello, XKEYSCORE) every time an app was launched, promised to stop logging and build an opt-out, then reneged and memory-holed the promise.


You act like Google or Apple had a real choice in the matter. AFAICT, that was all court-ordered.

[flagged]


Why? Apart from state sponsored violation of privacy, I think Apple does in fact provide the best privacy protections. I’m also happy they don’t do bizarre things like Android sometimes does, for example preventing you from taking screenshots on your own device because an app can do that on Android.

However, I dislike Apple for their extortionist approach to defending the App Store duopoly, browser access, moderation/censorship on apps, etc.


They are a for-profit company. They are closed-sourced both in hardware and software. Their ecosystem is known to be a walled garden. They aren't open in their processes. They sell your data, they just don't tell you. Following all of their ToS you have to agree to use their devices - you don't even own anything, you are just paying for a subscription (that can be revoked any time for any reason) to use the device.

I agree with most of what you said. But how do they sell their customers’ data?

You can't know, it's kept in a secret. But given the input data - you just have to assume they do (even if they don't).

You can pay apple premium for a lot of things doesn't mean you actually get it tho. people really forgot PRISM that quickly...



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