>That's not generally true. I attended a state university, and the department simply didn't have the funding to pay for its graduate students.
I mean, maybe? I know a number of state schools, certainly not all of them, but plenty that can afford paid spots for PhD students in the humanities that are certainly enough for someone to support themselves on. It doesn't pay as well, nearly as well, as jobs that humanities student with a good GPA from a good university can get in the private sector, but its not bad at all.
They're not denying your experience. They are, however, pointing out you didn't do your research Well when picking programs to apply to.
I've been in different universities and the experiences for the same departments very considerably. You specify on your application whether you want your admission to be conditional on funding. One communications department for example would typically admit only 2 to 3 students per year on funding. I thought it was very competitive to get into. But of course if you tell them you're willing to pay your own way admission becomes much easier.
Other departments may not be that upfront with the deal but all people applying to grad school should understand these Dynamics.
> They are, however, pointing out you didn't do your research Well when picking programs to apply to.
That's presuming a whole hell of a lot, and it's insulting. You know absolutely nothing about me or my history except what I've already said, which is not much.
I'm not here to be second-guessed by anonymous rando strangers.
We're wondering if you were perhaps mislead somewhat, because in our experience its quite rare for a department not to have any funded PhDs with stipends.
> We're wondering if you were perhaps mislead somewhat
I wasn't. But I'm not going to write an autobiography here. I already regret revealing personal details in this thread.
> in our experience its quite rare for a department not to have any funded PhDs with stipends.
Who is "our" and what is your "experience"? Are you referring to Telemakhos and yourself? Are either of you even former humanities PhD students? And how many departments have you surveyed such that you can make a judgment of rarity?
I'll be very honest with you, I've never met a humanities PhD student without funding who should've been pursuing a PhD, and if the department you were in was so poorly funded that it couldn't give out stipends, then it's likely that you would've never found a job in academia afterwards anyway.
Look, its not your fault, some people don't end up in the right undergraduate programs, they don't meet the right people, make the right connections, and get into good PhD programs with funding. In any other case, if you don't have a lot of money and time to waste, its almost always a bad idea.
> I've never met a humanities PhD student without funding who should've been pursuing a PhD
1) In your entire life, how many humanities PhD students without funding have you met? Perhaps you think that, somehow, you've magically met most of them, since you seem to believe there aren't that many.
2) It's just your opinion whether an individual "should've been pursuing a PhD".
> if the department you were in was so poorly funded that it couldn't give out stipends, then it's likely that you would've never found a job in academia afterwards anyway.
My former department has placed many tenure-track positions.
I think what may be going unsaid is there are some predatory practices that puff up the idea of a PhD to get people to attend a department that is otherwise struggling. It sounds like what you describe is rarer in better programs. That shouldn’t be taken as personal or an immutable law, just a general observation.
> I think what may be going unsaid is there are some predatory practices that puff up the idea of a PhD to get people to attend a department that is otherwise struggling.
No, it was already said:
>>> We're wondering if you were perhaps mislead somewhat
To reiterate, I was making a general point. You making it personal does not negate that point. If you re-read what I wrote, I was not implying you were mislead, but also that it isn’t rare in lesser programs. Not everything has to be true about you and your personal experience to be valid.
So your point is that well-renowned graduate programs are on an equal financial footing as those that are less well regarded?
I think it’s fairly well established that better programs have better funding. This generally results in more funding for PhD prospects. It’s great that you want to share your anecdotal experience, but don’t pretend that it means it’s a incontrovertible generalizable truth.
>Nobody here has any evidence
When someone relies on absolute language like “nobody” or “everyone”, it’s a clue they are making an emotional rather than a reasoned argument. In this case, there is data about funding and PhD opportunities.
> So your point is that well-renowned graduate programs are on an equal financial footing as those that are less well regarded?
No. I don't know where in the world you got that from what I said.
> I think it’s fairly well established that better programs have better funding.
It's not that simple. Funding can vary widely by university and department. You want to make it uniform, but it's not.
The reputation of a program is determined by a number of factors, and it can change over time. A lot depends on the particular professors who happen to be there at a certain point. And sometimes giant public universities are able to compete with smaller elite private universities by sheer size, i.e., the size of the faculty.
>No. I don't know where in the world you got that from what I said.
I’m trying to be generous by helping to clarify what you mean otherwise it comes across as someone arguing for the sake of arguing.
>You want to make it uniform
Not at all, and that was never said or implied. My point is the opposite; that programs differ in funding. I just take it a step further to make the point that lower funding leads to less funded PhD opportunities. Take early during COVID; funding temporarily dropped when many foreign students could no longer attend meaning it was easier for a self funded student get into a top program (I know because that’s what I did.) That same funding dynamic plays out with lower ranked schools because they tend to get much less research dollars.
>the reputation of a program is determined by a number of factors
Again, I don’t think anyone is disputing this. The point is about how reputation is related to funding and funding is related to PhD opportunities.
> otherwise it comes across as someone arguing for the sake of arguing
It's funny how you don't think this applies to you, especially since you came in almost a day after the HN discussion started and long after everyone else stopped replying. In this way, you prolonged an argument that had already come to an end.
> That same funding dynamic plays out with lower ranked schools because they tend to get much less research dollars.
Well, the humanities tend not to get a lot of research dollars, period.
> The point is about how reputation is related to funding
And my point is that they're not as closely related as you seem to believe.
>Well, the humanities tend not to get a lot of research dollars, period.
And it’s no coincidence that the humanities have the highest rate of self-funded PhDs.
>my point is that they’re not as closely related as you seem to believe
You may need to explain why govt research grants and endowments tend to follow the higher ranked institutions. And if you look at some of the ranking structure, they are explicitly tied to financial aid which is tied to endowments. I’m not saying it’s perfect or ideal, but ranking, money, and graduate positions are all intertwined.
> You may need to explain why govt research grants and endowments tend to follow the higher ranked institutions.
Institutions. Not departments. Within the same institution, some departments may be very well funded, and some departments may be poorly funded. This is basic stuff that you should already know, and if you don't, then you certainly shouldn't be lecturing me.
My patience is worn out here. This back and forth is not interesting. I don't wish to continue with you any longer.
I see you only cherry picked a part of that statement. Surely you understand that research grants are awarded to professors and departments? As are many donations are earmarked for specific programs and departments. Those research dollars are what directly fund grad student positions. And the rankings are relatively stable, although there can be jockeying in some specific tiers. Schools like John’s Hopkins, UCLA and Michigan will be near the top of health care research dollars as well as top rankings in practically any year. Your posts read as someone who is trying to rationalize personal decisions rather than someone who knows how the system works.
> Are either of you even former humanities PhD students?
I have my PhD in Greek and Latin. I applied to many schools for my PhD program and, on the advice of professors who had told me what I repeated above, accepted admission to the department that gave me the best aid offer, not necessarily the one with the best reputation. They were right, and I never paid a dime for my education.
> accepted admission to the department that gave me the best aid offer, not necessarily the one with the best reputation.
That's a personal choice, but it's an obvious tradeoff with downsides. If you have a non-monetary goal — after all, pursuing a PhD in the humanities would be a crazy way to make money — then why would you let money stand in your way?
> They were right, and I never paid a dime for my education.
They were right in what sense? You could also never pay a dime for your education by never pursuing a PhD. Regardless, you spent valuable years of your life on it. That's a big investment, and time is more precious than money.
I am glad that you admitted, though, that some more prestigious schools may have less financial aid. There appeared to be a kind of denial of this reality before.
However, I did in fact receive some TAships and lectureships while I was there, and even a dissertation fellowship. They didn't pay well though.