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It's very bizarre to see all these comments downplaying this, or implying the lack of E2EE by default somehow makes it less attractive to the average user than something like Signal.

Most people care about usability and interconnectivity first and foremost because the majority of their messaging activities are not so sensitive that they feel the need to sacrifice those things for mandatory E2EE. Call that shortsighted if you like, but it's far more common than this "encryption or bust" mindset around here.

If signal or some messaging platform could find a way to be E2EE capable all the time, with all the same usability and design as telegram, without unnecessary restrictions on users, and without it being a completely walled off garden from which your data can never be self-extracted, it would win this argument.

Same goes for things like Tutanota and a lot of these other data prisons that are cropping up which create privacy through taking away user agency.

Until then users will pick what they want for their own needs. Telegram met those needs for many.




> the same usability and design as telegram

From the recent Tucker Carlson interview of Pavel Durov, Telegram has:

  - 1 PM (Durov)
  - 1 owner (Durov)
  - 30 developers
  - 0 HR, they hire contest.com winners
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41343845


a very impressive guy. too bad he didn't name the oss libraries.


One could list OSS libraries (if any) that Telegram uses today, then diff against OSS libraries used by other E2EE messengers.


isn't only the client side oss? server side logs/libs is more likely. isn't it amazing 30 guys handle a billion users and who knows what sort of ddos is unleashed against them.




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