Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

The fact that you opened your rebuttal with DOS basically proves the point I’m making.

> Although probably debatable to consider any of them mainstream.

The only person debating that point is you.

We could be online until the sun rises debating about different command line environments but if AWS (for example) haven’t released an official CLI utility for Amiga DOS then your position is ultimately just an academic one.




Amiga DOS !== UNIX CLI, and if you don't get why, well so be it, lets worship 1970's printer hardware instead.


I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're just mistaken rather than trolling:

1. I never said Amiga DOS was the same as UNIX CLI. In fact I never even compared the two, that was all you

2. I do get why different command line interfaces are different -- I author a significant amount of code towards terminal emulators, shells, command line tools and maintain a hell of a lot of retro systems. So I'm definitely experienced on this subject. In fact I bet I could teach you a thing or two on this topic too ;) But that wasn't the point of what was being discussed. We were talking about the state of the status quo, not how some niche interface that nobody has used for serious work in nearly 30 years compares to the entrenched standard.

3. I never once said the UNIX CLI was peak command line design either. In fact I actually said the exact opposite. What I actually said was that it was dominant. Dominance != well designed

4. ANSI escape sequences, the $TERM env var, and all the other terminal UX stuff that are being discussed here, came about with hardware terminals like the VT-series. Yes, teletypes are part of mainframe history, but they're not relevant to this specific discussion here. Terminal emulators don't emulate a teletype, the POSIX kernel does that. Terminal emulators ostensibly just open a file and emulate how VTs interpreted ANSI escape sequences. This is the same reason why you can have terminal emulators on Windows (like PuTTY, Microsoft Terminal, and my own terminal emulator) despite Windows never having a concept of a PTY. Though, perhaps ironically, Windows now does support an approximation of a PTY.

---

My point was very clear: the current status quo sucks but it would be an order of magnitude more work re-implementing everything from scratch and it ultimately wouldn't likely gain adoption anyway because of the momentum behind the current status quo. Microsoft understood this and ended up re-implementing some of the concepts despite literally decades fighting against it.

History is littered with examples of sub-par technologies becoming dominant because they work just good enough to maintain any initial momentum they have behind them. And people would sooner use what they're familiar with than learn something entirely new just because it is technically better.

And the fact that you keep harping on about Amiga DOS is, frankly, absurd. I love the Amiga, I honestly do. I have one sat next to me right now. But if there was one example in history of a command line interface that sucked more than the Bourne shell, it would be DOS. Mentioning Lisp machines might have earned you a little kudos yet you chose to lead with Amiga DOS.....


You were the one that was so eager to reply that didn't even bother to go past the first line of my comment, and that says it all.

All the non-UNIX platforms eventually had to come up with POSIX support, because apparently people cannot stop to see UNIX on everything that has a CPU, other platforms be dammed, they better come up with POSIX support, including terminal escape codes.

The only reason to use PUTTY on Windows was and is, UNIX software running under mingw/cygwin.

Same with Windows Terminal, and naturally Microsoft <3 Linux with WSL, again UNIX like software.


I made reference to stuff past your first line. Maybe you missed it because you didn’t read the entirety of my comment ;)

Anyway, you’re now just repeating exactly the sentiment I made that we were originally arguing against.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: