> worried if they ever allowed unsigned apps to run
I see this stance often - Do you mean worried for the wellbeing of the easily manipulable (e.g. children) on the platform,
Or worried for the quality floor more generally?
The former has an argument, the latter does not in my opinion.
Even then while I welcome a requirement for apple to notarise apps for regular install (particularly as a means to verify the source), I'd also demand the ability to run unsigned apps unrestricted - whether the barrier is self-signing, a settings checkbox, make me stare at a 30s countdown, whatever.
I worry about my family both young and old who all had adware and malware ridden Android phones before I got them iPhones.
The vast majority of people use smartphones against their will and have no desire to learn anything about the magical Facebook machine in their hands.
They press buttons and things happen, who cares what the dialog box says, they press the button that will get them doing what they want to do the fastest, who cares if it said whatever they were doing is dangerous. This is how most people view their phones, and why there are Android botnets and not iOS botnets.
All of your concerns are actually solvable through software … if Apple were willing to work on it. But doing that doesn’t bring a lot of revenue so they keep pushing the narrative how the entire category of applications is malicious or risky.
> There are plenty of “free Vbucks” and survey sites that show you how to enable sideloading on Android to download said app that is just pure malware.
And yet the world hasn't collapsed due to every Android users' identity and bank accounts being stolen.
Maybe users aren't as dumb as Apple pretends they are.
This framing ignores the very real harm which has come to millions of people. It’s not the 80s any more and there are mature industries built around spying on users or tricking them into decisions with significant financial consequences. Most of the effective defenses require something like notarization to make it hard for attackers to simply disappear without legal consequences, so we need ways to do that at reasonable cost.
€0.50 seems like a reasonable cost for that, similar to how we don’t make circuit breakers or seatbelts optional just because some guy thinks he doesn’t need them and resents paying the extra cost.
I’m not going to hire an IT team to install and maintain MDM to prevent my grandmother from falling for a scam website and installing “free money quick 2024 +++ candy crush ultra”
If you want to block your grandma from being able to install apps from outside the Apple app store, that's fine (as long as she agrees to it). Seems like a useful feature. Maybe file it under "parental controls" or something.
If you want to block me from being able to install apps from outside the Apple app store though, that's none of your business (or Apple's).
It is Apple’s business, actually. Don’t like it? You don’t like anything about the Apple ecosystem. Buy an Android phone from one of the thousands of OEMs.
Apple is not stopping you from buying a phone that isn’t from Apple.
If most people thought like you did, they would just not buy iPhones. The problem is nobody wants what you’re asking for, because you’re buying into the euro-populist cope that it helps consumers, even though this was just a play to allow European companies to even have a small chance at making money in tech because of how over regulated the industry is in Europe.
You’re asking for iOS to be a flavor of Android, and the reality is the Android experience fucking sucks.
How is anyone supposed to take your argument seriously when you use the term "euro-populist cope?"
> even though this was just a play to allow European companies to even have a small chance at making money in tech because of how over regulated the industry is in Europe
Please cite your sources.
> You’re asking for iOS to be a flavor of Android, and the reality is the Android experience fucking sucks.
No. The user is clearly asking to run software on a device that they own. Why is Apple controlling what software people can run on hardware that they don't own? Should Microsoft not allow people to run software on devices that Microsoft does not own?
I think they should allow unsigned apps to run in a similar way to developer mode on the Xbox.
You can enable unsigned apps, but you'll loose Apple services (e.g. iMessage). This should be enough to convince normal users not to do it, but allow those who really want to do it, to do it.
That is one of the reasons why businesses must have security software monitoring your entire system on macOS, but not on iOS.
On Windows, people literally just give everything they install complete root access to their entire system when installing applications, might as well bring that to iOS too, right?
You’re not making the point you think you’re making. There’s a lot more danger using macOS/Windows than iOS, and the people who interact with computers at work aren’t given administrative access for a reason.
I can grant anything access to my iCloud Keychain on macOS, do you honestly think iOS users should be able to press a button to allow this if a random app requested it? Do you even think they will know what that means? Now imagine if unsigned applications could access keychain like on macOS. How well do you think that will go down?
Apple drew the line at consumer safety, and developers hate that they can’t abuse their powers like they do everywhere else.
> On Windows, people literally just give everything they install complete root access to their entire system when installing applications, might as well bring that to iOS too, right?
UAC prompts get in the way, and if the user account isn't an admin the app can't do anything.
> That is one of the reasons why businesses must have security software monitoring your entire system on macOS, but not on iOS.
Because it is not even possible on iOS, so false sense of security
> On Windows, people literally just give everything they install complete root access to their entire system when installing applications, might as well bring that to iOS too, right?
You have not used Windows for looooong time, otherwise you would know that this is not the case since Windows 7 and not the case at all on Domain (enterprise) Windows since Windows XP
> I can grant anything access to my iCloud Keychain on macOS, do you honestly think iOS users should be able to press a button to allow this if a random app requested it? Do you even think they will know what that means? Now imagine if unsigned applications could access keychain like on macOS. How well do you think that will go down?
Of course, why not. Are iOS user dumber than MacOS users?
> Apple drew the line at consumer safety, and developers hate that they can’t abuse their powers like they do everywhere else.
This has nothing to do with safety, but with users demanding support for their iOS toys, while refusing to acknowledge, that if Apple bans me from App Store for whatever reason, all the money spent on iOS support are now running down the drain.
It’s clear you have so little knowledge of the area you’re trying to talk about there’s not really a point in continuing.
The real world isn’t a computer, and Apple is held responsible for user mistakes.
Remember the fappening? Apple never let users make security decisions on their iPhone again and forced MFA.
You’re talking about walking back decades of platform security because you want to be special, which by the way, everyone who does this for a living agrees with Apple here, including Google. That’s why they’re making Rooted phones worse experiences, 99% of people cannot be trusted with the sort of access you’re talking about, and Google knows that.
Yeah, it'd be terrible, awful, horrible if we could run the software we want on the computers we purchase. I've been installing software on WIndows without an infection since 2002, probably before you were born and I've been using third party Android app sources for various projects and products for a full decade without a single unwanted malware like behavior other than obnoxious notification spam. Yeah, tell me how much danger I'm in from my Windows and Android software, child.
There are plenty of “free Vbucks” and survey sites that show you how to enable sideloading on Android to download said app that is just pure malware.