Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example.
However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been.
My female friend told me the following which radically transformed my perspective
Ask any group of women "What do you do to protect yourself in your daily life?"
Dome typical answers
- never walk alone at night
- hold car keys out while walking to car so you can open car door quickly
- do not make eye contact or smile to strangers at night
- do not go to bars or clubs alone
- carry money in bra in case bag is taken
- never put down your drink
- the list goes on and on
Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault.
When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life...
--> the answer is just about nothing.
We men walk around like we own urban environments. We have very little to lose and we have a lot of fun with it all. However we have a major bias that we need to be aware of: women are raised to be in constant fear, a fear they don't share with us. This has tremendous implications throughout life. Also this is only one example of a difference in life experience between men and women. There are of course many more.
> When you ask men the same question [...] the answer is just about nothing.
From my personal experience, men are much more vulnerable than women. A lot of my friends got assaulted/beaten up (me included) (some multiple times), and it's always been in public, either in clubs or even in broad daylight on a busy street! As you stated above, women can protect themselves in very simple ways: stay with other people, and watch what you're eating. For men, it's almost impossible to protect ourselves, except by being physically bigger and stronger (or by being armed/better at fighting, but that might cause some legal problems). So, we do basically nothing to "protect ourselves" in daily life, because there is nothing we can do, the most we can do is to try not to elevate the situation if things get heated/if you meet a violent idiot somewhere.
I'm not trying to downplay the dangers women face in our society. It's just obvious to me that whenever someone says that women are endangered without saying that men are too, they are much more motivated by discrimination against men than by making this society better & safer.
Violence against women and violence against men are different. Men are more likely to be the victims of violent crimes, and especially more likely to be attacked by strangers. Violence against women is more likely to be rape or domestic violence. Men are more likely to wind up in something you could describe as a "fight." Depending on context, you could say that men are in more danger than women (because most violence is man vs. man) or that women are in more danger than men (because a lot of violence against women comes from familiar figures like family members or boyfriends, and because self-defense is often harder for women.)
Sorry, I'm not a native speaker, only now I realize how this sounds...
What I meant to say is, men can do almost nothing to prevent violence against them (or at least reduce the probability of it happening), since violence against men is (in my experience) often very random, and happens even in public places with a lot of other people involved.
In contrast, women are almost never a target of physical violence, and they can often avoid being a target of sexual violence using relatively simple measures, e.g. staying with friends and not getting drunk/drugged.
On the other hand, men have better ways of dealing with violence once it happens (fight back), but it doesn't help if things escalate and you get beaten to death (in Slovenia, a man was once beaten to death by club security guards!!).
> In contrast, women are almost never a target of physical violence, and they can often avoid being a target of sexual violence using relatively simple measures, e.g. staying with friends and not getting drunk/drugged.
The number of women beaten (sometimes to death) by husbands / partners are alarming.
Women are rarely raped by strangers. They are raped by people they know - the 'friends' you suggest they stay with.
My next point is a bit tricky. Many people would find it offensive to suggest that the victim of violent crime should adjust their behaviour to stop doing lawful fun things. People enjoy being drunk. The focus should be on the men who rape drunk women, not on stopping women being drunk.
I'd agree there's a problem with people being drunk beyond the point of sensibility, and with men and women being so drunk they can not get nor give consent. That's a problem for society to deal with. It affects both men and women.
I disagree with the above commenter's general points, but I believe he's picking up on the concept that violence against men is much less visible a problem. Admittedly it's generally non-sexual (until we talk about prisons, and then it's seen as a joke or a righteous part of punishment) but men are expected to shrug off violence. There's even a social stigma for men who can't defend themselves.
It's a mistake to view it as a him versus her debate anyway. It doesn't make women's public lives better or worse if men have an easier or harder time.
>Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault.
>When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life... --> the answer is just about nothing.
Why is this fear a bad thing for women? Interesting fact: men are more likely to be victims of violent crime[1] and this has been pretty much true throughout history[2] though it is getting better. That fear is probably quite useful in keeping them alive since women are only half as likely to be victims of assaults by strangers[3]
I have worked in emergency medicine, dealing with all types of assault, and females are rarely assaulted compared to men. When they are it is often by someone they know and usually another female.
Random assault on a female is front page news, for a male its socially acceptable!
This is excellent advice -- for women roaming free on our ancestral savanna.
For those of us, though, who are collaborating on this whole civilization thing, high levels of fear are bad. Especially well-justified fears that keep people from participating fully in society.
The problem being pointed out is exactly that the fear is justified. It is fucked up beyond belief that half of our population has, as the parent post puts it, "a constant and unending fear of sexual assault."
While the fear may mean better survival skills its important to be cognizant of this significant difference between men's and women's life experiences if we're to grok their lives better. This is especially important for big guys (>6') to remember: that their daily experience is nothing like women.
Great points. Just had to say: I've heard that holding car keys at the ready is also intended as a impromptu sharp weapon to an attacker's face/eyes. Which only underscores your general point
That actually is the reason why you hold your car keys. It's less of a "being able to get in the car quickly" and more about being able to "gouge their eye out".
That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit).
For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not.
That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit).
The 1/4 number in the USA that's usually quoted is for rape and attempted rape.
For an explanation of where the 1/4 number came from in the US - read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States. I'd be interested in which part of the methodologies of the four different studies done by separate groups - one in 1987, one in 1995, one in 2000, and one in 2006 - you think is bullshit.
Even if you ignore the "attempted" the numbers that have come from multiple pieces of research in the US and UK of somewhere between 1/5 and 1/20 of women who will be raped isn't exactly reassuring either.
Unfortunately from the number of women I know well enough for the conversation topic to have come up I can easily believe that the higher numbers are much closer to reality than the low.
For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not.
Unfortunately most rapes happen in environments where other males aren't around.
More than that, studies find that between 6% and 13% of men admit to having raped women, with an average of ~5 women raped each: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/03/25/predator-th... 1 in 4 is not unrealistic, even assuming some women are significantly more likely to be victimized than others.
Why is that stat bullshit? From Wikipedia: "More than a quarter of college age women report having experienced a rape or rape attempt since age 14." The citation for that sentence points here: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.avb.2006.10.002
Also, I don't think the question of fault is interesting here. Crime is the fault of the criminals alone. But creating a safe society is everyone's responsibility.
However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been.
My female friend told me the following which radically transformed my perspective Ask any group of women "What do you do to protect yourself in your daily life?" Dome typical answers - never walk alone at night - hold car keys out while walking to car so you can open car door quickly - do not make eye contact or smile to strangers at night - do not go to bars or clubs alone - carry money in bra in case bag is taken - never put down your drink - the list goes on and on
Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault.
When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life... --> the answer is just about nothing.
We men walk around like we own urban environments. We have very little to lose and we have a lot of fun with it all. However we have a major bias that we need to be aware of: women are raised to be in constant fear, a fear they don't share with us. This has tremendous implications throughout life. Also this is only one example of a difference in life experience between men and women. There are of course many more.