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Why do you think this water is not priced at market value?

If a farmer could take their water and sell it for more money to somebody who would then treat it, transport it, and resell it to the public, the farmer would do that. It might be counterintuitive to a lot of people, but if you want to stop farmers from using their water to grow crops, raise the price of potable water.

The farmer understands markets very well. They buy and use water based on market values. What you're hearing is a lot of complaining from people who do not understand markets and think that they can dictate market prices just by word alone. Markets don't usually work that way.




> Why do you think this water is not priced at market value?

Because farmers can't take their water and sell it for more money to someone else, and they have no incentive to economize on water usage. Water prices are not set by supply and demand, they are set by government regulation. The "market" that farmers buy water in is not a free market.


Where do you think these Saudi farmers bought the land and water contracts? They bought them from some other farmer.

Governments can absolutely buy out water contracts from farmers on the open market.

In the cases where water is tied to land title, it can be separated, as is common with other natural resources like natural gas and minerals


The market for water that you describe does not exist, because that's not how water rights work in the American West, where this is an issue.

> If a farmer could take their water and sell it for more money to somebody who would then treat it, transport it, and resell it to the public, the farmer would do that.

They can't do that. It's not a market issue, it's a water rights issue. The farmer is "entitled" to a quantity of water each year by virtue of owning the land they are on. If they do not spray that quantity of water onto that land, then they lose the right to get any water in future years.

> What you're hearing is a lot of complaining from people who do not understand markets

Thus, it is not markets, but water rights, that are not understood by the people that I hear complaining.


First, let me say that water rights are not usually a use it or lose it right. That might be true in some part of the American West that you are familiar with, but not in the part of the American West where I use water.

Secondly, where there exist rights there is usually a market for those rights. For instance, people buy and sell publishing rights or the right to first refusal. So it is with water rights. If I need more water than I have the right to use, I talk to my neighbor to see if I can buy her rights. If she won't sell them, maybe she'll let them. I can tell you exactly what the market price is for a share of water (a water right) where I live in the American West. I can tell you what it was last year and what it was 20 years ago. And there is a very active market to buy or lease water. My local municipal water company can require somebody wanting a new meter to sign over an irrigation water share to the company. The company pumps water from a well, processes the water and delivers it to the meter for a fee.


Where I live (Central Oregon) the irrigation districts literally fly planes over the fields of people with water rights and send them warning letters if their fields are insufficiently green. If you're wondering how that affects people who try to use water-saving methods such as hoop houses or greenhouses, they also get these warning letters.

It sounds like where you are, the irrigation water and the municipal supply is also co-mingled in pipes? Where I am the systems are entirely separate, there's the potable municipal supply, and separately a series of surface canals operated by irrigation districts that bring water directly from the Deschutes river to fields.

For this reason (canals delivering irrigation water from source to destination via gravity), irrigation rights are fully tied to the land as they require adjacency to these canals. Properties may not sell their rights, even to other users of the same canal. Either they use it themselves, or they lose it and the rights revert back to the management of the irrigation district who may sell those acre-feet to a different user of the same canal.

It's not a great system, but unfortunately as the irrigation districts here are privately owned rather than public, the people required to change this are those currently benefiting from the status quo.


Where I live, irrigation and municipal supply are two completely different systems managed by completely different entities. But the municipal provider can still say, "We don't have any more water than we are currently providing. If you want us to provide you with water, you have to sign over your water rights. Then we can use those rights to provide you with water."


That's exactly right. The farmer is savvy. He knows that the legal mechanism for selling the water is to first spend it on plants and then export the plants.

It's a legal arbitrage. The valuable thing is the water because it can be used to make relatively expensive plants. The only permitted delivery mechanism is plants. So he follows the incentives.


Where is the market for water rights in the US West?


That's kind of like asking, "Where is the market for eggs in the US West?"


Am noob. Sorry.

ELI5 Where I can buy me some water rights. Imagine I represent a consortium of commercial salmon fishers and we want (need) to buy the water to keep salmon healthy. We'll pay fair market value. Who do we pay? How much?



The salmon require a guaranteed amount of water flow during critical times. For a typical dam, this means an additional 500cms for 2 weeks. This amount will vary with location and season.

How am I supposed to secure this additional unconstrained water flow the entire width and breath of the Columbia Basin water shed by buying water retail in Spokane? If I buy a cubic hectare of water in Spokane, what's to guarantee it'll reach the ocean, vs slurped up by farms along the way?

Apologies for being thick, but this doesn't much seem like buying eggs.

Please explain it so I can understand.




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