How about Google bloatware? Samsung Internet browser is far more superior than Google Chrome, but you can't uninstall Chrome. Of Gmail. Or Play Store. Much of the bloat is coming from Google. After all, it's a Samsung device, not a Google device.
I used to be some kind of Androis purist, owner of multiple Nexus and Pixel devices. But for several years now, I'm sticking with Samsung.
Which bloatware and what problems does it make you?
For me, I don't really consider Microsoft Office as bloatware as I can use it, plus, what's bloatware for you might be useful apps for others, and I found it stays out of my way once I push it to the side if I don't need it, so it's existence is a non-issue for usability.
Samsung bloatware used to be bad in the past but now it's decent IMHO, and I think people are being overly pedantic and mostly overblow the problem of some bloatware just to win some religious argument of "my choice of phone is better than yours" while ignoring the other useful reasons people buy it.
If you wanna see real bloatware, check out Chinese phones.
It is utterly insane how much crap they have in baked in. Everything tries to connect to you ludicrous samsung account and the best selling point their apps have is that they try to masquerade them as standard android apps and not a cheap samsung knockoff.
I have to support friends with samsung a bit and I get a headache even touching them. Great cameras, wouldn't touch one even if I was paid to actually use it.
And this is using top-of-line devices. They also have the absolute lowest range too, which is quite impressive hardware/dollar wise but the software situation is of course even worse on such an underpowered device.
The telemetry and the dark patterns they utilize gets me in the stomach. The big problem is that for I guess the majority that don't actively fight it they get extremely tied to samsung. Which I guess is a key reason to their success. A big detriment to android though.
>So, exactly as with google trying to sign into google's account?
Massive difference though. Samsung tries to trick people to use it by not being up front with what account it is and what it is for.
Now, don't get me wrong. Google would probably do the same, but in this case they don't have to - because it is their OS. It is trivial to skip the google account if you want but it actually has its place in android. A samsung account on the other hand just makes things objectively worse, and at every turn they dare they try to get you deeper into their dependence, always trying to trick you into depending on samsung for the same stuff google already does for you (if you went that route).
How you can compare the two boggles me.
And even if the shady practices doesn't bother you and you feel like they are equally bad, then both of them are twice as bad. Why on earth would I want to use one I didn't have to?
And above all, why would I tie my android experience to one vendor?
> Again, same for google's apps which people think "come as a part of android", but in reallity they arent?
Really not the same, but yes, google bundles crap too if that is your point. Samsung is way better at making crap though. Regardless, who should be bundling crap anyway? The OS vendor or the hardware vendor? The hardware vendor is more than fine to write apps directly related to hardware features but other than that they should just fuck off.
> As if google doesn't use telemetry?
You think it is ok if Dell installs telemetry on a Windows PC? As much as I hate google what samsung is doing doesn't compare.
>Google would probably do the same, but in this case they don't have to - because it is their OS. It is trivial to skip the google account if you want but it actually has its place in android.
No, it's not.
AOSP is free and open source OS that is completely functional without google's account or services.
>Samsung tricks you into depending on them for the same stuff as google.
Well yes, but either we give a pass to both of them or none. Giving a pass to google just because "they are the more popular one" is simply dellusional and puts unfair expectations on any1 who tries to challange the status quo of current market.
>Why on earth would I want to use one I didn't have to?
If you treat those companies as necessary evil, then you are correct, it's more logical to choose the path with the least ammount of "deals with the devils".
But at the same time, this aproach is anti-competative. You will always buy into the biggest vendor, because it gives you the most features.
>And above all, why would I tie my android experience to one vendor?.
But you are alrady doing that with google's experience. Samsung just gives you an alternative. Some people like it, others don't. But it's just a preference.
> Regardless, who should be bundling crap anyway? The OS vendor or the hardware vendor?
AOSP foundation is vendor of base android.
Google is vendor of google's android.
Samsung is vendoer of samsungs OneUI.
We are going to give google a pass literally just because they play a word game where they don't explicitly name pixels OS as "G-UI", like samsung does with their launcher? What?
>The hardware vendor is more than fine to write apps directly related to hardware features but other than that they should just fuck off.
But samsung doesn't markets itself as ONLY hardware vendor. They are software vendor as well, and their software is OneUI.
Just as google's software isn't AOSP, it's google android.
This whole distinction between hardware/software/OS is irrationall.
> No, it's not. AOSP is free and open source OS that is completely functional without google's account or services.
That's just what I said. But most tie the android experience to the app ecosystem, which (not necessarily, but in practice (for most people)) is tied to the play store. Which requires a google account.
> Well yes, but either we give a pass to both of them or none.
WHY?! Google is honest about it. Why are they honest about it? Because they happen to be in a position where they can be honest about it. Samsung choose not to, because they rather trick people.
Google is required for the typical android experience. Samsung is only required if you like to be abused. They are not the same.
> But at the same time, this aproach is anti-competative. You will always buy into the biggest vendor, because it gives you the most features.
No, you buy into the vendor that is required. Not the one that tries to bully you and sneak under the radar.
> Just as google's software isn't AOSP, it's google android.
Google makes both. Google is much close to AOSP. Doesn't matter at all huh?
Google follows the typical android UX (close than anyone else at least), samsung tries to be different just for the sake of being different.
The competition to android is not samsung, it is non-android OSes
This is like defending tracking popups. They are abusive, illegal, user hostile and doesn't offer anything. But somehow avoiding sites that has them is anti-competitive?
> Which bloatware and what problems does it make you?
Just about every single pre-installed app? Their store, their browser, Bixby, Bixby vision, messaging, their car mode, their friends, Galaxy smartwatch BS, SmartThings, their weather app. It's all - to an app - worse than the alternatives, and worse than Google's defaults if that's your preference.
You can disable any app aside from the Galaxy Store, I believe. Takes like 5 minutes to do them all if you are a die hard Samsung hater.
> Their store, their browser, Bixby, Bixby vision, messaging, their car mode, their friends, Galaxy smartwatch BS, SmartThings, their weather app. It's all - to an app - worse than the alternatives, and worse than Google's defaults if that's your preference.
They don't have their own car mode or messaging, they use Android Auto and Google Messages.
As someone who uses some of them, Samsung apps are actually quite good generally.
Even if they were all hot garbage, there is nothing wrong with having more options IMO. All you lose is a bit of diskspace if you disable them.
> They don't have their own car mode or messaging, they use Android Auto and Google Messages.
As of late 2021 when I got my last Samsung this was not the case for the default messaging app. I thought driving mode (not Android Auto alternative) was different too but I do feel less confident about that.
I don't want the OS to have any material differences at all between devices. Android should be like Windows, which is the same no matter where it's running. Even the "good" changes that manufacturers make are unwelcome, because they dull much of the appeal of an OS like Android where hardware vendors are interchangeable and can be switched on a whim without software downsides. I don't want to become dependent on some manufacturer-specific change.
If it were practical to do so, every Android device I buy would immediately have its OS replaced with something like LineageOS or Pixel Experience to eliminate these variances, much as technically inclined people will wipe the Windows install that comes stock on a prebuilt PC in favor of vanilla Windows.
> Even the "good" changes that manufacturers make are unwelcome, because they dull much of the appeal of an OS like Android where hardware vendors are interchangeable and can be switched on a whim without software downsides. I don't want to become dependent on some manufacturer-specific change.
So you want a worse software experience all the time in case you have to use said worse software experience in the future because of a hardware change? And you don't want Android hardware vendors to be able to differentiate themselves with software, giving all of the power to Google?
Doesnt make sense to me. Seems a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It's something I see as necessary because products manufacturers you trust can and will sour on a dime (see OnePlus) or even get out of the business entirely (see LG and countless other former Android handset companies). If manufacturers want my loyalty, they can get it by consistently producing superior hardware (both technically and in fit and finish) and treating me well as a customer. Those things on their own are stronger differentiating factors (excellence is unusual) than software gimmicks that rarely live up to promise.
That "OS should be coherent" argument would work if android itself was providing all those options.
But it's not.
Go to AOSP source and the "phone app" you'll find there is deprecated, ugly crap that no one ever uses.
The 'nice' one is just a google app that's not only closed source, but equally bloated as the samsung's one.
People give google's apps this weird pass, as it's not the same kind of bloat as the manufacturers one, but there is no reason to treat them differently.
This is increasingly true as Google is moving further and further away from AOSP, and I think it's eroding the appeal of Android as a whole.
That said, at least Google apps talk to just Google. Samsung apps for example have been shown to connect to numerous different analytics services and ad networks even if you spring for the most expensive devices they sell which isn't great.
It is, if you wipe it and reinstall plain Windows and whatever drivers are necessary, which is trivial on x86 PCs and basically the default for technically capable individuals.
But even then, PC manufacturer bloatware doesn't typically modify the OS itself and is just extra crap bolted to it. The versions of Android that gets shipped on phones and tablets by contrast are different at the source level, sometimes bearing significant divergences from AOSP.
Razer and Nvidia drivers almost force a login on you and do things like constantly spin up and wear out your idle HDDs searching for games to "optimize." You often have to do a research project filled with SEO spam to get around stuff like that.
At least in the case of Nvidia, the drivers bundled with Windows are good enough for most peoples' needs. It sucks for those of us who want up to date drivers for more demanding use cases though.
I am just personally opposed to Google having all that much access to my data, which is quite funnily only possible to prevent on an android by having.. a pixel and installing GrapheneOS on top.
Sure, lineage and such exist for other phones as well, but people seem to forget that it is not some thinkpad where you can just swap the OS to your liking — plenty of phones have proprietary firmware that auto-wipes on reinstall. I wouldn’t want my fancy, expensive S-twenty-X’s camera to become essentially garbage.
Sure, each to his own, but personally I and others don't really care about the preexisting apps as they're few and they stay out of my way and don't pester me.
I just want a great phone for a decent price, that fits all my needs and I'm not gonna die on this "zero-bloatware" hill for the sake of a philosophical stance, because I'm not letting perfect be the enemy of good.
What use to me is a zero bloatware device that doesn't have the HW, features or updates, that I personally need and value?
