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> Why is this all of a sudden a problem when China does it, but not when our firms do this in their off-shore sweatshops

It's certainly a problem! But the only thing we can really do about it is pass laws.




> It's certainly a problem!

If it were a problem, Washington could get it resolved in a year.

It's not a problem, because half the people bankrolling political campaigns are neck-deep in it! Their businesses are built on it! On cheap labour, on captive markets, on sources of third-world resources that are accessed through theft, violence, or corruption!

And even if you aren't directly involved, our society will not function very well if we stop reaping the benefits of all the practices I've described. Nobody wants to pay $90 for a t-shirt, or $9 for a gallon of gas.


I see two kinds of people saying either:

1. The west is doing immoral things and hiding it. Let's talk about it and force people in charge to change things or change the people in charge!

Or:

2. The west is doing immoral things. Let's root for these other guys who are also doing immoral things; eventually they will replace the west and then somebody will figure out how to stop them from doing the immoral things.

I think (2) is predicated on the fact that the west wrong doings are so old and irreparable and so they can be only washed away through a complete blank slate rewrite of the geopolitical order.

I think this is a relatively "natural" effect of our human psychology. We have an innate sense of "punishing" people and we often find ways to rationalize and explain why they should be punished. However these instincts are ill suited to handle geopolitics because there are many more people involved that the "tribe" size of our natural selection environment and also because the time scale of the changes is usually much longer than what people are used to in their day to day relationships.

I think logic (2) is flawed because once the new power structure is formed it will be hard to change exactly like (1) or even worse. Furthermore it will have done immoral things for quite some time by then because changes to geopolitical power balances will take a long time to actuate and thus they new power will also become "irreparable" and the only thing left to do will be to root for the next "underdog".


3) west has done and continues to do things they deem immoral to stay ahead while use propaganda and coercion against others when they do the same things to catch up. Folks who fall for their own propaganda and clash with those that don't.


I don't think that's different from what I said in (1):

"The west is doing immoral things and hiding it"

The propaganda aspect you're mentioning is an integral part of "hiding it".

I don't think you're framing changes the options on the table: either you try to fix the system from within our you somehow hope that the others will be better just because.


IMO third framing is west is weaponizing/moralizing development tactics when "immoral" methods are simply effective development methods that west doesn't want their competitors to adopt. The TLDR is there isn't anything to fix per say, sometimes developing fast and catching up to incumbants takes breaking a lot of eggs. The eggs are of course humans, and it's tempting to build propaganda atrocity narratives to deter such behaviour. Frequently it even comes from a genuine place, hence many useful idiots who drink the koolaid can advocate for it strongly, but these narratives are ultimately, on a geostrategic level, self serving for entrenched interests/winners who wants to stay on top. The logic of (3) is recognizing that the liberal world/rule-based-order is a rigged game, and it's in the understandable self-interest that others don't want to play in an already unfair system.


Thanks, I think this is a very astute analysis




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