Surely this is surprising only to very young people? Remember Developers Developers Developers? Microsoft has always had, by far, the best development experience of all the major platforms. Their dev tools have been top notch since the 90s.
Of course nowadays CLion/Rider do provide a very similar desktop dev experience, so clearly Jetbrains also gets it. But it can't compete with how well integrated VS is with Windows in my experience.
I think it depends on your background. A decade ago, web developer experience for non-MS stacks on Windows was significantly inferior to MacOS, mainly because all the best tooling was *nix based. I don’t know what the situation is like today as I haven’t touched Windows in years, but my opinion of Microsoft DX is very low. In fact, the thought of developing on Windows is so visceral that I wouldn’t even consider a job if I were forced to use Windows.
Conversely, if you’ve been developing within the MS ecosystem then I bet you’ll have a completely different opinion.
As a classical, old-school *nix-style developer, I can confidently say things have changed in Windows-land. Between WSL2, VS Code, scoop/winget, Windows Terminal, and dozens of small quality-of-life advancements, Windows has shockingly become a very comfortable, ergonomic development environment for lots of things that have nothing to do with .NET, Windows SDK, etc.
Yet the above comment isn't talking about modern windows, but instead the past. The 90s were referenced specifically. I think those things have improved the situation a lot, but are still not comfortable enough to be enticing. So 30 years ago it definitely wasn't.
I was referring to the statement “I don’t know what the situation is like today as I haven’t touched Windows in years, but my opinion of Microsoft DX is very low.”
Not just young people. Windows is still bad software - eg i apparently cannot turn off bing search in my moms start menu. Also behavior like forcing apps (eg teams) to run at startup. ubiquitous telemetry (pretty much full on spying), default settings in edge. I could go on.
I have been massively impressed with VS code, it’s good software. Maybe they “get it” re developers.
But as a consumer, i don’t think they do get it. I think their fans must have Stockholm syndrome.
Yes Microsoft's is treating its users poorly and their software is generally pretty bad (par for the course for silicon valley these days, unfortunately). But why must any mention of Microsoft devolve to that commentary? We were discussing their dev tools which were, and are, very good. Let's leave it at that.
I switched from Java to .NET recently due to a new job and man... IntelliJ is just so much... "better" than Visual Studio... at least out of the box, especially the tab management is a nightmare.
I will say however, it is impressive how good IntelliSense is, I hadn't had the opportunity to see how good it was but damn.
I'm a fan of rider, it's my go-to for anything dotnet and after a few years of rider usage I really don't enjoy VS like I used to when I have to dive back into using VS.
Agree - Rider has provided a much more enjoyable programming experience for me as well. It does lag behind in supporting some things though, such as early Blazor, but I think it is mostly caught up now.
I am a long time Visual Studio user who is trying to switch to Rider, and used IntelliJ IDEA previously quite a bit.
When you refer to tabs, I don't know what are you talking about. I struggle with moving tabs around in Rider. In fact, it tends to glitch sometimes rendering IDE inoperable until restarted. I don't see any differences in handling them.
On the contrary, I find the UI of debugging tools much better in Visual Studio. At least the default Rider layout dumps a lot of stuff (call stack, variables and immediate) in the same pane, and it just does not work for me. I don't need immediate a lot of time. I like multiple panes of variables/watches, and I like to be able to switch between individual debugging panes while keeping others. E.g. I use both watches + stack and watches + debug output and switch often, and in the Rider I don't know how to do that.
I remember thinking this when I first had a job in .net ~15 years ago. VS felt great to the sort of people that had only ever used older versions of VS.
Everyone else begged for Intellij resharper. :) I haven't touched it since then, but given the number of comments about Rider, I'm guessing this hasn't really changed.
This was my only real complaint about Copilot, very happy for this improvement. In hindsight I had noticed things seemed better in the last week when working in a TS codebase.
Looks great. Is this also coming to vscode? Also, the answer might be an obvious 'no', given a lack of features compared to vscode, but is it coming to pycharm?
Both IntelliSense and IntelliCode are great. Combine them with Roslynator, and they're even better.
But Copilot is half-baked/broken in full Visual Studio. It is a "AAA" experience in VSCode, but worse than useless in Visual Studio. After doing the trial I went out and got a ChatGPT Plus subscription instead for twice the price, no regrets.
Currently, rated 2 stars on the marketplace[0] with this recent review (not from me):
> Sorry but this is useless. I will try in the future but now I stick to ChatGPT.
Yeah, it’s a big bummer that VSCode is getting the attention first it seems.
For instance there’s nothing for Vs equivalent to the VSCode Copilot Labs plugin, which brings a whole bunch of new useful functionality.
I've been in games for a decade, and spend about 90% of my day writing c++ (the rest writing hlsl), and I can say with certainty that Visual Studio is both not deprecated, and pretty good actually.
But maybe its the case that outside of my niche VS falls down or the other options are so good that they make VS seem old fashioned.
If you're using the latest Copilot + VS to write C++, would love any feedback on how well this interaction works with C++. We've got a couple minor kinks we're working out, any scenarios/feedback you can find would be awesome.
Will IntelliSense now provide bounds for the CoPilot predictions? I find Copilot hallucinates method signatures that don’t actually exist in the SDK. IntelliSense of course knows that.
Hey! I worked on this - yes, the method/IntelliSense selection is bound. We measure model accuracy through accept rate of predictions and we've seen a jump after introducing this.
Anything after the method/intellisense selection, however, isn't bound.
This is a great improvement, but all the new AI tools are obviously still in their infancy.I can't wait to see how it will look a couple of years from now!
I telli code has a new way where you can click a API or Nuget and it brings examples of code using that API FROM Github.
Super useful since you can see different ways people use them, for example how people would use an API synchronous or asynchronous.
The bad thing is, it brings all code regardless of license
So it will happily bring you GPLv3 code as an example. Not a good idea to study code like that if you work on closed source.
Also it doesn't seem to ask for permission to use the examples.
There’s a new article every day on HN talking about the ethics of AI and many of them call out Microsoft GitHub’s Copilot, so I guess you've been missing a lot.
