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>The suite of extra software utilities required to make the base OS usable is ridiculous

Use Windows or Linux. Good luck and have fun!




Windows isn't Unix, which is one of macOS's biggest selling points for developers and hackers (remember which website you're on). Recommending it as the solution whenever someone complains about macOS is counterproductive, because in many cases it's not a suitable substitute for macOS.

WSL isn't a solution to this problem, especially ever since they gave up adding support to the actual Windows kernel and just used a virtual machine.

I shouldn't have to wait for all my software to add support for putting the WSL wrapper around all of their commands. I should be able to just run them on bare metal. This is why JetBrains IDEs can do profiling, valgrind etc on macOS but not Windows.


It's tiring to read almost everyday on HN: “the amount of work required to make this circle into a square is ridiculous”.

Some of us enjoy circles. Use whatever you like, but complaining A is not B is annoying.


You clearly missed the point of my comment, which is not to say that Windows should be Unix, but that the fact that it is not means that you probably should not be recommending it as a universal cure-all to people who probably use macOS for a reason.

In other words, it only sounds "annoying" because you seem to not understand why people would use a Unix operating system, and why Windows is not a suitable substitute.

(This is assuming they use macOS for its Unixness, but enough people use it for that reason that you probably shouldn't be telling people to just use Windows and "have fun". To your credit, you did also list Linux.)


I use a Mac, always have. My complaint is that people jump to criticize a way of working, saying it's unusable, when there are plenty of others that have enjoyed working this way for 40 years and are extremely productive that way.

Perhaps question if your old habits don't apply in a new context? And just because it's a WIMP UI you shouldn't expect it to work exactly like your former? That it's a new paradigm, with different metaphors, advantages and trade-offs?


> My complaint is that people jump to criticize a way of working, saying it's unusable, when there are plenty of others that have enjoyed working this way for 40 years and are extremely productive that way.

Well, I didn't do that. I said Windows misses a desirable quality that macOS has, which makes it unacceptable as a substitute for macOS, specifically, if one relies on this desirable quality.

> Perhaps question if your old habits don't apply in a new context? And just because it's a WIMP UI you shouldn't expect it to work exactly like your former? That it's a new paradigm, with different metaphors, advantages and trade-offs?

Do you see how you just proved my point? According to your argument the answer would be "Well just don't desire that quality then." and, gee, I sure wish the whole tech world could just do that, it sounds so easy.


I see the comments the same way and half the time they seem misinformed. How many Mac users are looking to move windows with the keyboard because the mouse is too much of a burden.


No one is complaining A is not B. Everyone is complaining that macOS lacks some fairly basic UX options and is being neglected by Apple which corrects these flaws at a glacial pace.


Oh, but they are. I'm extremely productive on stock macOS, way more than on Windows. I just don't keep complaining that Windows is broken. Some people obviously love it.


> Everyone is complaining that macOS lacks some fairly basic UX options

What you call "basic UX options" are highly opinionated personal views. I've used Macs since 2007 and haven't used a single one of the dozen or so "basic UX" tools people listed in the discussion.


On a tangent, I don't see what's wrong with complaining that A ≠ B. Complaining is just the precursor to voting with your feet, and having more or less than competitor offerings is a natural point of comparison in a customer's mind.


Sure, but there’s a limit. You wouldn’t complain that there’s no beef on a vegan restaurant.

The Mac’s thing has always been resizable overlapping windows with a menu bar at the top of the screen. If you’re hoping for a great tiling window manager, you’ll be disappointed. You can kind of get a poor man’s tiling setup with some hacks, but it’s not what the platform is about.


Now try to go beyond a shallow dismissive analogy and explain specifically in the case of linear mouse why disabling acceleration is trying to make a circle into a square?

(and consider the fact that your circle company has added that square peg into their latest oval OS)


“My circle company” is cute.

What I’m trying to convey here is that, while I hate Windows' mouse acceleration, to the point of being almost unusable to me, I don’t go on forums ranting about how ridiculous the amount of tweaking the OS requires to be usable.

There are fortunately other choices that fit my sensibilities much better. Why try to bend Microsoft to my particularities, especially when there are billions of perfectly happy users?

Ideally you’d want every OS to feature every possible preference setting. In practice, every feature increases the surface for bugs, loses focus on limited resources, puts the burden of choice on the user, etc. There needs to be a vision, an opinion, a personality to a product. You can either share that or look for a different platform.


But you're doing even worse - you go on forums ranting about people criticizing legitimate OS deficiencies!

> Why try to bend Microsoft to my particularities

Many reasons, but specific to this conversation: because it's not a square! Tweakability of these things is part of "essence" of a general purpose OS, so that's the flaw of your analogy, and why you have to resort to generic analogies instead of explaining how a specific tweak is bad


>…legitimate OS deficiencies!

That’s where we differ.

>…instead of explaining how a specific tweak is bad

I have, but I’ll try one last time. Could Apple build an industry leading tiling window manager? Perhaps. Would that please most of its users? Probably not. Would it delay other more pressing demands? Surely.


You haven't tried the first time, you've just again ignored the tweak in question, which was mouse acceleration

And you ignored that Apple fixed that deficiency, so you also differ with the company, whose bad choices you're defending

And of course you wouldn't be be able to explain what other pressings demands for most users such a simple tweak would block


I wasn’t discussing mouse acceleration, but it’s just the same. The acceleration curve hasn't changed since 1984, to the best of my knowledge. I don’t see Mac users complaining. Should Apple expend effort to accommodate ex-Windows users? It’s not my call, but I don’t think they should.

Regarding the pressing demands, how about a notification system that’s not a compete UX joke or a reliable and simple file sharing solution that doesn’t require the user to be aware of the SMB or SSH protocols? I could spend the whole day listing lower hanging fruits than meeting the particularities of ex-Windows users.

The number of system developers with deep knowledge of macOS, Swift/ObjC and willing to live in Cupertino is surprisingly small. It’s a very limited resource and it shows, given the number of years some glaring bugs survive with macOS every release.


You see Mac users complaining, they are right here in this thread, you just choose to dismiss the complaints. Just like you again ignored that Apple also disagrees with you since they fixed this bug

And you haven't explained the most important thing- the blocking part, "resources are limited" gives you nothing of substance at this level, you actually need to know the amount of effort involved. How much time is needed to expose a different mouse curve? Would a better notification system be developed within that time?


Ask those Mac users if they're using the platform because their job requires them. You may be surprised.

I haven't ignored that Apple disagrees with me, that's a fact, since they shipped the toggle. I'm arguing how they should spend their developer's time.

>Would a better notification system be developed within that time?

How about basic functionality, like being able to close a notification without some serious mouse gymnastic? That bug is 3 years old.

Or having your music player display how much of the song has been played without requiring a hover, like any sensible music player has done since forever, iTunes included.

Or a System Preferences/Settings that's not a flabbergasting disaster.

Priorities.




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