if you find yourself saying something like 'non-woke' unironically you are part of the problem. You're suffering from an acute outrage pornography overdose. Your prescription is to go touch some grass.
We can argue about what "woke" means in overall politics, but there certainly is a power block of Reddit mods who can fairly be described using that term. Many of them are the kind of people who are so deluded that they think Reddit is right-leaning and that anyone to the right of AOC is dangerously close to fascism.
The problem manifests itself not just when people try to post right-leaning arguments. One time I got banned from a Bernie Sanders subreddit for expressing mild criticisms of Bernie from a moderate viewpoint.
Actual right-wing viewpoints often get nuked from orbit. But political moderates are not safe either. On many subs any political view that deviates in any way from progressive orthodoxy runs a high chance of getting deleted.
"Wokeness" is completely irrelevant to this situation, which is likely why this comment got buried and then flagged.
And for what it's worth, "woke" isn't a word folks who are engaging honestly tend to use much/at all. It used to be a way to describe being socially aware of systemic oppression of minority groups in society, but now it's a derogatory term used to denigrate people who care about how others are treated.
It's not "right" or "left" that's the problem here; if someone wants to argue about laissez faire economics or how the government should wisely invest its limited resources in programs that provide greater societal returns, they're absolutely free to.
What you're seeing get "nuked from orbit" is hate speech and, "tough luck" attitudes that reduce human beings to some generalization that either isn't true, or severely overemphasized for alienating effect. The fact that one political group tends towards those arguments more than another is a symptom, not the cause.
I am using "woke" to mean "progressive but in a dogmatic and authoritarian way". Yes, I am using it in a derogatory way. That is because I dislike dogmatic authoritarians. I do not use the word to describe progressives who are open-minded and liberal.
>What you're seeing get "nuked from orbit" is hate speech and, "tough luck" attitudes that reduce human beings to some generalization that either isn't true, or severely overemphasized for alienating effect. The fact that one political group tends towards those arguments more than another is a symptom, not the cause.
You perhaps do not have much experience with discussing politics on Reddit if you think that those are the only things that Reddit mods delete.
Yeah, that's not what "woke" means! That's insulting. You're inviting hostility, how could you be surprised when you're treated poorly in return?
And I have literal decades of experience on Reddit. I've been there since ~2007 (Alexis sent me some Reddit car stickers and other random swag back in '08 as part of an early promotion), and I moderated a number of these subs that are now famously getting blown up, but quit when I discovered the cabal-like hidden IRC channels where mods would shit-talk their userbase, plot ways to crush smaller subs, and generally be gigantic assholes towards people they had power over.
I personally believe mods are a net negative on Reddit, but not because they're "woke" or anything. Many are just assholes. You can be both liberal and an asshole, politics has very little to do with this situation.
But more importantly, this isn't Reddit. This is HN, and frankly I've experienced a fairly strong libertarian lean around these parts that happily comes out to converse when the topic isn't fraught with words like "woke".
Well, sounds like we do not really disagree much. You mainly just object to my use of the word "woke" because you read it in its original meaning, which is fair. Feel free to just replace "woke" by "dogmatic authoritarian progressivism" in what I wrote.
>I personally believe mods are a net negative on Reddit, but not because they're "woke" or anything. Many are just assholes. You can be both liberal and an asshole, politics has very little to do with this situation.
"Woke" has always meant being grokking (in the truest sense) the plight of minorities and minority groups (e.g. LGBTQ+). In other words, people who have woken up to what's going on around them.
Using it as a slur, as originally done by Trump, places you into a very specific camp that is certainly nowhere near moderate.
>Using it as a slur, as originally done by Trump, places you into a very specific camp that is certainly nowhere near moderate.
It really does not, and you thinking that it does is a good example of the kind of dogmatic "if you are not with me you are with the enemy" attitudes that make so many people annoyed with wokism.
There are many political moderates and even some leftists who are annoyed by wokism.
>There are liberals and moderates who are annoyed by people who are aware of the plight of minorities?
No, that's a poorly constructed strawman. Even conservatives care about the plight of minorities. There are liberals and moderates who are annoyed by "woke" leftists who believe acronyms are White supremacy [0], men can get pregnant, taking your top off at a White House event is a positive thing, etc.
No, that's a poorly constructed fallacy fallacy. It really isn't a strawman. What did I define "woke" as? And what did the gp comment say about sentiment towards it?
Being outraged that a japanese game based on european medieval fairytales setting doesn't have people on colour has nothing to do with plight of minorities, and that's just the latest example I've seen of woke grifters today.
There's a reason why this word is used as derogatory by majority of people, and it has nothing to do with Trump.
Trump had a lot to do with lifting the term into political rhetoric and it's been hollowed out of any specific meaning by now. With the milquetoast politicians and talking heads (and you) using it injudiciously as they do, being "woke" is now just ever so uncool.
Woke is broke, man.
That it can be associated with zealots... go find me a label that couldn't.
I can't remember the last time I came across "woke" used as a compliment. If it really was originally Trump that twisted it into a slur, he's achieved a genuine widespread (indeed, international) change in the language (along with cofveve and sundry other contributions).
> "Woke" has always meant being grokking (in the truest sense) the plight of minorities and minority groups (e.g. LGBTQ+). In other words, people who have woken up to what's going on around them.
Exactly, and a "Nazi" is just a person who cares deeply about their country, a patriot.
So you would equate those who have empathy for minorities with a group who committed genocide?
Edit: the problem with this slippery slope argument is that the likes of Trump supporters are "just patriotic," but are also engaging in book and curriculum banning.
>So you would equate those who have empathy for minorities with a group who committed genocide?
Based on more than a decade on Reddit, I 100% believe that the mods and majority of the readership of /r/politics, /r/worldnews, and other large default subreddits would, yes, after taking power immediately commit mass murder of those who don't share their ideologies.
I just want to say that I support peoples right to self-actualize and we should all be loving and supportive to anyone who is questioning their gender. But I've never seen this sub on the front page before and this article was on the front page for like 2 days. There are many in the thread commenting that the parents are at fault for doctor shopping, and generally discussing questioning laws being passed to force parents to support their children's decisions to transition. These are important discussions for us as a society, what level of autonomy do we assign to parents vs children vs government when it comes to permanent bodily alterations such as hormones and surgeries that impact the rest of their lives, and most of the discussion would simply be removed and people not 100% supportive would be banned if there had been a woke mod crew for this subreddit.
> people not 100% supportive would be banned if there had been a woke mod crew for this subreddit
FWIW, the trans community (at least as far as anyone I've spoken too) doesn't want children getting surgical medical intervention either. There's a growing trend of saying "the gays want X" or "trans people want X," when in reality X isn't supported by the communities.
> a woke mod crew for this subreddit
I want to conclude by mentioning out-group homogeneity bias. I don't think "woke" is a meaningful term anymore. Instead, it seems to be used by "anti-woke" people to refer to an amalgam-person, who holds a set of beliefs, which seem rare in practice.
This isn't helped by "woke" people who seem to follow the Anakin Skywalker school of thought when it comes to people who don't already agree with them: "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy."
> I just want to say that I support peoples right to self-actualize and we should all be loving and supportive to anyone who is questioning their gender.
It shouldn't be considered "woke" to treat people with dignity regardless of who they are or how they present themselves, and I think most people do that. There are people on the fringes of many of these social issues, we can refer to them as "woke" and "anti-woke" who either think that these are settled topics and there can be no reasonable discussion besides agreement, or that they have a license to be horrible to people they disagree with. Control of the conversation by either fringe is perceived to have the power to push this middle ground in their preferred direction, or at least make it seem like the fringe narrative is more popular than it is, and I think the loss of some measure of this power is why some other commenters in this thread have referred to this as "war" *(including myself referring to "culture war")
Really, it was a mistake on my part to use the word "woke" because it is such a lightning rod, or at least I should have balanced it with my negative opinions about "anti-woke" as well.
And now you publicly have an opinion about a niche & highly technical medical-social issue that directly affects an absolutely tiny minority of the population.
That is the culture war my dude. It came for you and you welcomed it with open arms.
The only opinion I expressed is one of support for people experiencing this, and recognizing the importance of society coming to a consensus on this issue.
>the importance of society coming to a consensus on this issue.
Is it that important? That's what the culture war is. Focus all your emotional energy on things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things to keep you from having the bandwidth to care about the real systemic problems that nobody is terribly interested in fixing because they benefit from them.
