>And that raises the question of which criminals to put in jail which makes it much harder.
Why is this hard? Is there a problem with speeding that is lowering quality of life to the degree that violent, property, drug and homeless loitering is in major cities? Cmon man, we are all smart people here. The manufactured moral dilemmas are such a waste of time.
We can all conceive of hierarchies of crime, and right now unenforcement is the major problem so are we really at risk of jumping to extremes where speeding tickets lands someone in jail for a long time? Now, if speeding results in physical harm or car accidents, then at the very least those breaking them should lose their license. If that becomes an issue, then escalate until the problem is solved to a degree that makes a city a pleasant place to live. Maybe the problem is there are too many competing defintions here for what people think is desirable for a city..but open drug use, homeless/mentally ill squatting on sidewalks and harassing people, un-punished property and violent crime, mass theft at retail businesses etc seem fairly obvious to me maybe you have a different preference and like this stuff.
>Addiction is lifelong so you're going to put drug addicts in jail you would need to use a life sentence.
Yea maybe. I'd rathr have a nice clean city than concern myself with rehabilitation of hard drug users. Getting hooked on this stuff already means one has ruined their own life. Why do we have to allow them to ruin ours too?
Close your heart to sentimentality, or maybe direct that sentimentality to the people doing the right thing, not using drugs and trying to be productive citizens. Where is the empathy for them? This is the major blocker to solving these problems. I feel much worse for the good citizens who have to suffer living around this mess, than anyone addicted to drugs and whose behavior necessitates removing them from society so the rest of us can get on with our lives unomolested.
This mentality of hyper sympathy for what are essentially mindless zombies wreaking havoc (at some point the drugs preclude people from rational thought) is the core of why US cities have become so bad. It may be true that to clean up the streets requires abandoning the aversion to harsh punishments for these and other people. If collectively we cannot cross that chasm, then we're doomed to live in filth that will only get worse.
Thank you. It's astounding to me how difficult it is to argue with some people about this. It's seriously practically matters of basic sanity. Like what kind of bizarro-universe is this where people are trying to argue that people who speed are in the same category of "criminal" with violent drug addicts? I almost don't even know what to say to a response like that. It's practically bad-faith IMO but it's so fucking stupid and somehow such a supported position that I feel the need to fight against it.
The post in question did not do what you are accusing them of. They made a rhetorical statement about the word "criminal" that they even themselves qualify as "quibbling", and go on to demonstrate the usefulness of the quibble as the context for a relevant point.
On the other hand, you are broadly accusing those who disagree with you as stupid and insane.
I think SF is a mess. I don't have insight into how "bad areas" become that way or how best to systemically address them, but I do feel relatively confident in blaming the laws and/or enforcement for a failure to do what is in the system's power to keep people safe from each other and from themselves (to a reasonable extent - I don't expect precognition or magical rehabilitation capabilities). It makes me angry. However, unlike apparently everybody else, I don't consider myself educated on the topic beyond that. In this instance, I am trying to do my tiny part in defending the conversation from the tidal wave of fallacies that come with politically charged and emotional topics.
Why is this hard? Is there a problem with speeding that is lowering quality of life to the degree that violent, property, drug and homeless loitering is in major cities? Cmon man, we are all smart people here. The manufactured moral dilemmas are such a waste of time.
We can all conceive of hierarchies of crime, and right now unenforcement is the major problem so are we really at risk of jumping to extremes where speeding tickets lands someone in jail for a long time? Now, if speeding results in physical harm or car accidents, then at the very least those breaking them should lose their license. If that becomes an issue, then escalate until the problem is solved to a degree that makes a city a pleasant place to live. Maybe the problem is there are too many competing defintions here for what people think is desirable for a city..but open drug use, homeless/mentally ill squatting on sidewalks and harassing people, un-punished property and violent crime, mass theft at retail businesses etc seem fairly obvious to me maybe you have a different preference and like this stuff.
>Addiction is lifelong so you're going to put drug addicts in jail you would need to use a life sentence.
Yea maybe. I'd rathr have a nice clean city than concern myself with rehabilitation of hard drug users. Getting hooked on this stuff already means one has ruined their own life. Why do we have to allow them to ruin ours too?
Close your heart to sentimentality, or maybe direct that sentimentality to the people doing the right thing, not using drugs and trying to be productive citizens. Where is the empathy for them? This is the major blocker to solving these problems. I feel much worse for the good citizens who have to suffer living around this mess, than anyone addicted to drugs and whose behavior necessitates removing them from society so the rest of us can get on with our lives unomolested.
This mentality of hyper sympathy for what are essentially mindless zombies wreaking havoc (at some point the drugs preclude people from rational thought) is the core of why US cities have become so bad. It may be true that to clean up the streets requires abandoning the aversion to harsh punishments for these and other people. If collectively we cannot cross that chasm, then we're doomed to live in filth that will only get worse.