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What I don't understand is why John Deer with their incredibly expensive tractors doesn't just use Windows CE or any other proprietary OS. They can afford it and it's not like Linux development is any easier than Windows development.

Offtopic: is it true what he says about Apple pairing their sleep sensor chip to their security signatures? That would be such a scumbag move.




>Offtopic: is it true what he says about Apple pairing their sleep sensor chip to their security signatures? That would be such a scumbag move.

Try replacing an angle sensor in a A2442. It won't work, even if it is from another Macbook. It has to have GSX run on it for it to work.

What we do now when they're corroded is do our best to try and clean up the existing one. Maybe desolder the hall sensor, use a fine tipped iron like the Hakko 2032 w/ T30-KN tip to "file" the pins and pads as much as we can, and put it back on. Sometimes, it works.

When it doesn't, we tell the customer "I'm sorry, no sleep for you. Only manual sleeping!" It sucks.

The places with access to GSX, are the places not permitted to do component level board repair on machines with liquid damage.

The places without access to GSX, are the places with the best ratings in the country for component level repair on machines with liquid damage.

The world is a meme.


That's terrible to an almost comedic level.


Off topic but have you considered adding Chat-GPT added summaries to your videos as a TL;DW? There is a plugin called eightify.app that produces summaries. It just feel like sometimes you are limiting your audiences to the hard core nerds with your long winded rants.


>Off topic but have you considered adding Chat-GPT added summaries to your videos as a TL;DW? There is a plugin called eightify.app that produces summaries. It just feel like sometimes you are limiting your audiences to the hard core nerds with your long winded rants.

No. My channel was never started with the goal of having 100m subscribers. In my initial musings, I thought, MAX subscribership, BEST CASE scenario was 300 subscribers, since I estimated the people going down the LCD-cell-only/component level repair rabbithole with Apple products to be around 300 at the time 10 yrs ago. and that assumes 100% of them watch/subscribe to my channel, which is a lofty figure.

getting to 1.7 million subscribers is ridiculous. This wasn't supposed to happen. A cursory look at my older videos, total lack of preparation, production quality, etc should make clear that the goal was never widespread viewership.

but, if 1.7 million people ARE viewing, if I've blown out my initial best-case-scenario by 3 zeros and change.... why go out of my way to do it all differently? Why adapt my content to people who admit they don't want to watch anyway?

It's not a movie, it's a 9 minute video... I totally get if someone doesn't want to watch a 9 minute video, but... I'm not making content for them.

I wasn't trying to get big, I was just producing what I felt like producing.. if doing that got me to 1.7 mil, maybe being myself is the thing to keep doing.


>Why adapt my content to people who admit they don't want to watch anyway?

Going back to the point of my inquiry: If you are serious about pushing this issue into the mainstream rather than just being just a channel that a certain small segment of the population happens to enjoy, then wouldn't you want to expand the audience to be as large as possible? Like it or not, there is a large percentage of potential supporters who are just not going to sit around and watch what is typically 20+ minutes of rambling.

If you are not really serious about this then I understand your hesitation but then why the involvement with Futo?


There's at least 50 videos on the channel on any of the issues I consider to be main issues that are 5 minutes or less. The people who make the criticisms you make usually don't watch any of those.

It's not just the 10 minute video they think is boring, it's anything I produce. They're not viewers, they're commenters when something frontpages reddit or hn.

and that's fine - people don't have to watch or like my stuff. I just don't produce content for people who will NEVER watch my stuff. It's like fogo de chao trying to cater to vegans.

I could make this video 30 seconds, but it loses its effect. It loses the story, which is what draws people in who otherwise wouldn't care. Without the history, the details, the villain, and the point - do you honestly believe a 15 short of "hey bro john deere uses gpl stuff and doesn't release it rawr" would have the same effect as this video? Even 10% the effect, of getting normal people to care about farmers getting screwed? I doubt it.

I could be wrong, but as far as "Pushing into mainstream" - it made CBC news, at least half a dozen other news stations, got a 50 page report from the FTC, made it to the president's desk, was mentioned in an executive order, and a bill just passed a week ago.. I don't know how much more mainstream it gets unless the issue gets made into a boy band.


To be clear, all I was suggesting was to try that app out and maybe post the results as a "pinned comment" in the hopes that anyone that might click off from the video sees the summary and does not totally disregard it. You make a good point about the successes such as the bill in Colorado and the CBC piece. Maybe I really am asking something totally unreasonable. I don't really know.

Honestly I think we really need someone else to lead and be the public face of this movement. Someone who is known and liked by the mass population. Look at other great movements in this country's history. There is always some character that captures the publics imagination wither through charm or just insane grit.

We can't JUST have a richard stallman like character who sticks to his way of doing things stubbornly and expect to see the finish line. Maybe this movement has already reached escape velocity and it does not matter. Maybe someone at iFixit or someone else that I am not thinking of is already that public face that can reach the masses. Maybe someone is waiting in the wings.

I'm reminded of an event I experienced when I took a senior level Linux Kernel class in college. The class was taught by this hardcore GPL and privacy loving professor who had worked at Bell Labs and had started several startups in the open source/IT sector.

We had a class of 50 people and the first day he told everyone that this class is one of the hardest in the university and that he does not care if you struggle, he would not accommodate you in any way because it is worth learning the Kernel the hard way by being thrown head first into the ocean. He acted with such determination of his way of thinking, that I imagine it really scared a lot of the students. Well, the next class we had lost about 50% of the student body (including the 10 or so women in the class).

It was a grueling class and one of the most knowledgable classes I ever took but now ten years later I look at how the CS graduates i'm hiring at my company now live their entire lives in a smartphone and only use a regular PC when it is absolutely necessary (for work). They barely know how the OS and underlying components in the machine work.

It makes me think, that in hindsight that professor was totally wrong. He caused people who may have dipped their toes into the water and joined the other side to give up too early. Now we have a reduced pool of people who truly understand why all of this matters.

Some of those people might now be like the people I have to hire now. In the case of my developers, they do pretty good work for what they need to do. They don't write kernel code. How many people do that? They build CRUD apps. For these people: The companies won. They live in the Apple/Microsoft/whatever ecosystem and don't care about fundamentals because to them, life is fine. I hope this is not what is going on with right to repair.

Have you watched any Farmer Youtuber channels? I have watched a handful of "Gen-Z" farming youtube channels and I seem to notice there is a lot of love for John Deere since they sponsor social media events here and there. I remember one youtube farming couple in Nebraska discuss right to repair in youtube livestreams when the first news of farmers hacking their equipment made all the tech sites. They seemed quite indifferent to the movement as a whole and discussed how they always have their rep available when they need help. Sure this is an anecdote but it stuck with me because its making me scared that the same thing that I am experiencing with my developer hires is a generation wide problem regardless of industry.

Have we scared off the masses already just like my professor did?


You're both right.

Louis, don't mess with the success on your channel by changing now.

But, creating some content targeted at the mainstream would be a very good idea. Don't do it instead of your existing approach, just in addition to.


I wasn't really asking him to give up his existing workflow. Just to consider that software which does a pretty good job of summarizing his long videos. I had started to post the summary of his videos in the comments to help others (it costs ~$0.70 per video) but they get buried. Maybe he could start pinning a summary and that would keep people who see his videos but quickly click off. I dont know, just throwing out an idea to think about.


Incredibly off topic.


I find Linux development significantly easier due to experience and I think that feeling could be shared by a lot of folks. There’s also value in working with open tools because you can take that knowledge and use it anywhere. If you become knowledgeable in enterprisey stuff you can get stuck doing enterprisey things


If you pick hardware carefully (or write your own drivers, or pay someone else to do it, which is entirely possible in their case), FreeBSD would be an excellent option. I wonder why it isn't more popular among these kinds of manufacturers. (Everyone knows of the two or three major exceptions, which just proves the point.) IMHO it will get there if enough GPL enforcement cases pile up.


You're saying the same thing but with two different outcomes, as if by virtue of using open source tools you're not going to get stuck working at companies that also only use open source tools. Become experienced in open source tools so that you can work in companies that use open source tools. Become experienced in closed source tools so that you can work in companies that use closed source tools.

It's the same thing so really it comes down to a matter of preference and experience.

I am pretty much a Windows developer as that's generally been what I've done, and have very little experience writing code for Linux and other operating systems. I could do it in a pinch, and with some time I could adapt and become a more open source based developer, but that is not the environment where I am most productive.


Companies that used closed source tools can also use open source tools and more importantly _any_ company can use open source tools while the same is not true of closed source tools. I don't think it's really symmetric like you say it is.

I do agree it's up to preference and experience though at the end of the day. Having experience in closed source tools can be very valuable because the cost of that knowledge is higher. Not everybody can just tinker with it.


Or they could just use a permissively licensed OS, like one of the BSDs. There's no need to use a proprietary OS in order to avoid the GPL, pretty much all the BSDs shun the use of GPL code and they offer similar abilities to Linux.

Generally, but have no direct knowledge of John Deere's situation, Linux is used because it's usually possible to have drivers which are already written for the various hardware which is desired in more embedded systems. Having to write or port something like a wi-fi driver to a different OS is very non-trivial but wi-fi is generally considered table-stakes now for lots of devices. So it saves significant cost and development time to choose Linux simply because you can get off the shelf drivers for your electrical design.


I can’t remember clearly, but I think the prior version of the touch screen may have used Windows CE. I’m not sure why Deere pivoted to Linux, but it may have had better support for their custom boards or they might have seen the writing on the wall for Windows CE (according to Wikipedia, its final release was in 2013 while the new touch screen debuted in 2014 if memory serves).

Deere is a big Windows shop and it was not fun trying to develop for Linux in a VMWare VM, and corporate IT seemed to have special prejudice for our unit for deviating from the standard Windows suite.


There's no longer any such thing as Windows CE. Closest thing would be LTSC IoT, which is still Microsoft Spyware Lite(tm).

If they want a heavyweight modern OS that someone else maintains and that Deere, and not Microsoft, can control, the only real choice is Linux.


As was stated earlier, FreeBSD (or I'll add netbsd as well) certainly is a full fledged OS that would allow free redistribution of all the work without having GPL encumbrance, while allowing any sort of "remote telemetry" desired. And it's free free free, if you ignore that developing for it is possibly more time consuming since you'll want to limit your ecosystem to non-GPL code.

Nevertheless, if I were working through a product that involves "redistribution" of any of it, and I really didn't want to deal with any potential issues with compliance with the GNU requirements, I'd spec out that the whole product runs [free|net]BSD and runs only 3rd party apache/bsd/purchased licensed code/libraries. This isn't really even a difficult option.


I'd be worried that I'd have to spend half my time writing hardware drivers.


You'd probably just spend 1/20th of your time looking at hardware BOMs.

Freebsd has pretty good compatibility, and if you're buying in sufficient volumes or making / integrating boards from scratch you can just stick to the paved roads. It may not end up being quite as cheap from a BOM perspective, though.


I was wondering the same. I might be misremembering, but I think early versions of the touch screen used Windows CE, and development on the new touchscreen (the only instance of Linux I’m aware of in John Deere’s ag lineup) started sometime around 2010 (depending on when you measure “started”), so Windows CE was still alive, but maybe there was some writing on the wall that it was being shuttered?


You'd think some embedded proprietary RTOS would be ideal


I don't think the linux part runs the machinery itself.


No, it talks to the stuff that runs the machinery which was, and likely still is, JDOS (Deere’s home-grown RTOS). There was some interest in moving to a proprietary OS, but I don’t know if that was ever manifest. From what I remember, the only Linux system in ag equipment was the touch screen on the Command Arm, but maybe the guidance stuff also ran Linux?


Not even proprietary, plenty of RTOS options that are MIT




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