It is also xenophobic to believe that Chinese are not able to design junk by themselves. They have a huge internal market and have a lot of reasons to do so. Also, a lot of the junk in question is white label, with pretty much no western engineer or designer involved even when it is sold in the US or Europe.

But the bottom line is, it is junk that comes from China, ergo Chinese junk.

Much of the really well made stuff that we buy here in the US also comes from China. They are now quite capable of very high end manufacturing as well.

I tell people this sometimes but the market is so saturated with the cheap junk that people don't often believe me.

I usually use iPhone or MacBooks as examples.

All designed in the US, using manufacturing methods pioneered (for the most part) outside of China?

I mean it was only a short while ago that they were able to manufacture metal balls with enough precision to make ballpoint pens.

Besides the fact that they are known for making jumps and leaps in progress by stealing trade secrets. Just calling it how it is, I don't think they deserve credit for working in this way at all, if it weren't the case then I'd be applauding them.

I thought they were mostly built in South Korea and Taiwan. I don't usually pay much attention to the Apple world, though.

Foxconn and Pegatron are both Taiwanese companies (who make devices for many major manufacturers, not just Apple) but most of their manufacturing has been in mainland China.

Although some of that manufacturing has started to shift recently to India and Vietnam.

I'm sure they do. But the junk comes from many places, and the responsibility is on the companies here. I just think calling it Chinese Junk is hiding the blame.

Look at my fridgidaire fridge and dishwasher - both recently broke at the same time after a few years. Both top of the line consumer models. They're still made in the US, but they're disposable junk sold at the homeless despot.

The fridge is $2k, but has the same cheap components from $400 fridges. Cost cutting is everywhere. Hold the right people accountable, IMO.

China is in the special position of having both a great industrial capacity for complex products and at the same time being the main source of complex products that are poorly designed/constructed. So referring to "Chinese junk" identifies an objective economic phenomenon and is not simply a product of prejudice.

"Chinese junk" can also be used as a term of criticism for a tendency among Chinese suppliers to dishonestly skimp on quality. Hearing of the many troubles American companies have with suppliers in China, this seems to be a valid criticism. However, having worked in the Middle East, I can testify that this problem can be as bad or worse elsewhere.

It is noted than Japan had a similar reputation in the early 20th century, and I think Switzerland also had a reputation for poor quality in the 19th century. In both cases, the governments started programs to change things. There is desire within China to change their reputation. I've read that Alibaba is actively trying not to be seen as a venue for selling "Chinese junk."

>"being the main source of complex products that are poorly designed/constructed"

It is also the main source of complex products of high quality. Problem is the price. Where it matters I buy industrial grade stuff for home use. It works for ages. But it also priced accordingly. Canadians with median income and below simply can not afford quality stuff.

Meanwhile, not sure about the rest of the world, but my personal impression is that in Canada general public mostly thinks that Chinese only steal, copy and produce nothing but junk and are not capable of anything else. So yes it is racist / xenophobe attitude in my opinion.

It the same way that "Made in Japan" or "Made in Taiwan" used to be a label for cheap knock offs. Over time, as China shifts their economy, it will probably change, but right now "Made in China" have a certain connotation, and it becomes an easy shorthand for the disposable crap that fills our stores.

It took them until 2017 to be able to make a fully homegrown ballpoint pen: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/18...

Yes it is Chinese junk if it is junk and manufactured in China - they have created an entirely new economy just for this stuff.

And "xenophobic" is just a nicer way to call someone racist. It was a smart move on China's behalf to produce this junk, they have most of the world's manufacturing.

I think it's a bit harsh to call them xenophobic, but I did have a similar thought recently. What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?

Maybe it was harsh. However I think it makes the Chinese people look bad, where they aren't really to blame. The CCP keeps labor prices low, and we exploit it, and then we sit here and complain the stuff they make is junk.

> Maybe it was harsh. However I think it makes the Chinese people look bad, where they aren't really to blame. The CCP keeps labor prices low, and we exploit it, and then we sit here and complain the stuff they make is junk.

When someone says "Chinese junk" you're not really insulting the people IMO. Just the cheap grade disposable crap you can find in corner bazaars. That stuff that breaks after 2 uses.

Like someone else said, in the 80s "made in Taiwan" was a rubbing joke and before that Japan. But it has nothing to do with the people, just the phase their industry is in.

It's like people here in Europe saying American cars are gas guzzlers (which they mostly are compared to EU models). You wouldn't take that personally.

Labor prices are much lower in India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines among others, than they are in China. So there is a bit more to the story than "the CCP keeps labor prices low".

The cost of labor has increased a lot in China and hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty. Perhaps other choices could do an even better job but certainly a far worse policies could be instituted.

>"What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?"

Thanks to modern economy in Canada for example people with median and below income currently can't afford to buy anything but junk. Same goes for quality food. Price of accommodation, food and many other things have skyrocketed.

This is what is "worse"

This is absolutely untrue. Beans, rice, corn, potatoes, cabbage and salad are cheaper than junk food.

Just did a trip to Loblaws in Toronto yesterday. I disagree. Organic groceries -- sure -- median income people can't really afford it.

The traditional, raw items common to the Anglo-Irish diet like potatoes, corn, flour, butter, cabbage, etc are super cheap in Canada. Meat pricing has been super challenging since the pandemic started.

Canada don't really have the same kind of agricultural subsidies that the United States has. Buying a bag of doritos isn't cheaper than a bag of potatoes. Nor, a big mac cheaper than raw ground beef.

> Greens, veggies, decent fruits, meat, fish

Potatoes are cheap because we have an industrial supply-chain for potatoes that developed and grew for a hundred years. This is linked to the whole "Anglo-Irish" thing. Potatoes are also cheaper to grow and store.

Greens and fruits are super-perishable and require lots of packaging and protection.

> Making those your main source is highly unhealthy.

I hope nobody is eating green onions as their main source of food. (I am being faceous)

Civilizations have since the dawn of time had some kind of staple cereal crop that provided the majority of the caloric intake. It can be rice, millet, maize, wheat or potato. If you don't use one of these as your main source of calories -- yeah, your grocery bill is going to be expensive in any place and in any time.

For sure -- food price inflation has gotten way more expensive this year and I have no idea how anyone lives in Toronto at the median household income. I think I agree with you, but maybe we have a different way of expressing things.

>"It can be rice, millet, maize, wheat or potato. If you don't use one of these as your main source of calories -- yeah, your grocery bill is going to be expensive"

That is exactly my case. Also I am toll(ish) muscular guy and do about 2 hrs of cardio per day. My main diet is lots of meat / fish / chicken in combination with salad (greens, tomatoes, cukes and green onions), apples and berries. So yes it is expensive but I consider it better choice when one can afford it and for my lifestyle.

Yes I love fried potatoes and some other unhealthy stuff so I may sometimes go wild on weekend but if I switch to it as main caloric source (and I did so some times) I do not feel all too well.

A single meal at McDonald's is still pricier. What junk food is cheaper?

What is your point? I've heard that fast food places had become way more expensive. So yes average Jane/Joe would have nothing left after covering basic expenses. Myself I do not go to places like this at all. We either cook at home or on very rare occasions go to some restaurants where I can get some really good food.

I think that guy's point was that it isn't cheaper to eat junk than to eat "good and healthy" food.

I think that this is big distinction between USA/Canada.

Junk is way cheaper than healthy food if you buy it in the stores vs going to fast food restaurants. But yes almost everything is less expensive in the US.