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Ask HN: Oops, I just sold my startup to a piano company. Now what?
151 points by dangrover on Jan 5, 2012 | hide | past | favorite | 72 comments
So the last time I relied on you for advice was 1394 days ago, according to this: http://news.ycombinator.org/item?id=134685

Since then, I worked at a few startups, dropped out of school, started a successful Mac app business, and ended up spinning off a music publishing platform for the iPad that was doing very well until I ran into a legal issue.

So I exited earlier than I would have liked:

http://steinway.com/news/press-releases/steinway-sons-debuts-etude-20-ipad-app-for-learning-and-playing-piano/

The heart of the matter was that I signed a bad contract with someone who was supposed to get music deals for me. With the contract in place, it limited my options for continuing to bootstrap, taking funding, or getting acquired by a few of the companies I was talking with. Except for Steinway, which found a way to work with me.

So I moved from SF to New York, I brought in a team, we transitioned the app over, built one of the first sheet music stores for the iPad, and released a new version of the app I'm really happy with.

If you're curious, you can try it for free at: http://etudeapp.com

With the app transitioned and my legal matter finally settled, we've set a date for me to leave the company. I'm excited, but a little terrified.

Since the time I sold, I have many times the resources/runway I had before, and I'm a good deal more mature and in much better shape. The odds are waaay better, so I ought to just hang out and see what I come up with, right?

But for whatever reason, after spending about 2-3 years pursuing a single idea so passionately, I'm pretty burned out, and I'm not quite ready to start something new yet. I'm not excited about any of my other ideas to the degree I was with Etude, and I'm having trouble seeing what to do now. I feel like I've reached a local maximum, and I need to go work with other people and see what kind of ideas they're into.

I'd really like to do an incubator like YC, since having decent advisors would have prevented me from running into the trouble I did before. But it's not the right time, and I'm (so far) a single founder.

So I went and interviewed at a bunch of places in New York (since I'm stuck for at least a little while). People seemed to like what I'd done and I got a few offers from some good companies, traditional and startup.

I don't really need a gig, but I figured I'd see what I could get. But the thing that bugs me about this is that nobody seems to think that I'm anything more than a code monkey. They don't realize that, in addition to engineering, I actually started something new, managed the product, a whole team, did a fair bit of design, promotion/press, successfully exited, all sorts of stuff that doesn't really fall under "Objective-C developer." Not exactly covered in the Stanford course. I'm not usually so arrogant, but it's frustrating.

For some reason, the logic on the east coast, and even in a lot of SV is, "If you can code, then you can only code. Forever."

I'm returning to San Francisco for a week just to meet up with some old friends and escape the cold later this month. Hoping that will help me.

But what should a person who wants to take a break and get some broader experience but is tainted with an engineering background do? Is the only option for me to just suck it up, gather the courage, and commit to striking it on my own with another idea? Have any of you ever been at a similar crossroads after exiting something?




If you don't mind me saying, it sounds to me like you've come into more money and success than you've ever had and now you're feeling guilty about it. You SEE yourself as a guy who works and creates stuff, not a capitalist on a yacht; but, when you glance at your accounts, your mind is telling you that you are, in fact, a fat capitalist on a yacht telling everyone down below to row.

This is creating guilt and cognitive dissonance.

But that isn't you. The amount of zeroes on a bank statement does not a man make. The reason you went out looking for jobs even though you didn't need them is not because you were bored. It's because you wanted to convince others (yourself, really) that you haven't let success go to your head.

Well, I can tell by your post that you haven't let it go to your head. And you know what, it probably won't. Those people who get rich and then turn into complete douche-nozzles... guess what? They were douche-nozzles to begin with! Money tends to amplify one's personality, not alter it.

So relax!

Give yourself permission to:

- Buy that car or boat or whatever you've always wanted. Just keep the Tercel ;-)

- Travel, explore, learn, teach, whatever. If money is no object, the first thing I'd love to do is drive trucks for 6 months or so. The next thing would be to get my PhD. Do what you've always wanted to do if you didn't have to work... because you don't.

- Create! Use your coding skills for yourself. If you don't have the urge to write code, don't. But if you do, don't worry if it doesn't have a market or an exit strategy, just write it and feel good. Share it. You'll enjoy it again.

Bottom line: you have worked hard, developed a great product, saw it through to a nice exit, and are in a position to enjoy the fruits of your success. We at HN hereby give you permission to do so ;-)


I would say he should keep his toes wet… dabble with some small pet project, or something to keep his skills sharp. Or even learn a new tech. Just don't let your skills go dull, while you're living it up… but definitely enjoy the fruits of your labor!


Take a break, do little projects & kick around for a bit, and contact interesting-looking companies about jobs occasionally... but don't jump for anything serious until you feel genuinely excited about it.

Give that part of your brain/spirit time to recover. As much time as it really needs, if you can afford it.

All that said, if you're interested into a side project that falls squarely into your line of experience, I have an interactive music site that needs rethinking and that's getting more & more requests on UserVoice for iPhone/iPad apps; I also have my own brainstorming on how to transform it into something really useful:

http://emusictheory.com http://eMusicTheory.uservoice.com http://brainpool.emusictheory.com

If any of these ideas strike your fancy (or if you just feel like offering advice), my contact info is in my profile.


This is a great comment, OP should take this one to heart.


Regarding the comment you received of "If you can code, then you can only code. Forever.", you need to work on your own branding. If people are getting that impression of you, it's likely because that's the part of your work that you most focused on when originally speaking with them, intentionally or unintentionally. It's up to YOU to set what your public image is.

Case in point: I recently graduated from grad school with a PhD in biomedical engineering. I had known all along that I wasn't a competitive candidate for employment in the BioE industry for a number of years, and I had always dreaded having to find a job as one. However, through a stroke of coincidence, I landed a very short-term job as a data scientist, and I realized that my marketing myself as a "BioE" simply because that was my degree was only hurting myself. I completely changed my resume--still entirely true, but focusing on different skills and directed to a different audience--and applied to different positions. I'm now working for a large bank as a quantitative analyst, and I'm enjoying it tremendously.

If you go in speaking about how you designed and managed a website, people will see you as a code monkey. If you go in talking about how you came up with a business model, raised funding, managed numerous teams of developers and supporting staff, and eventually sold the company for a profit, I imagine that conversations would go a lot differently.


^^ What he said.


If you don't need the money, take time off. When I left the last startup I co-founded, I decided to set an arbitrary "1 whole year" date, during which time I would explore my own projects, hear about other peoples new ideas, and talk to existing larger startups (Dropbox, etc). But I wouldn't allow myself to commit to anything until about a year was over. It's too easy to be come enamored w/ half-baked ideas, and I wanted to make sure the next one was meaningful and had a high probability of success. Long story short, I learned a ton during that year, turned down some great options, and eventually chose the BEST of all possible options. (Starting a meaningful company w/ killer co-founders, gaining traction, and having a blast)

If you have the chance, give yourself the space! It'll be worth it.


Also, as an entrepreneur you've officially graduated beyond the resume/interview/application process. The only people who fully appreciate those entrepreneurial skills are other business owners and executives; if you come in and ask me for a job coding awesome stuff, I'm mostly going to care about your code skill because someone else is handling the promotion, design, and management.

Of course you could work in a small business where having lots of diverse skills is valued, but you'll probably be vastly underpaid and overworked.

Sounds like you want to be appreciated though. Offer to work for free! If you don't need the money, help someone you identify with. Give back, pay it forward, whatever. You'll have a great time, learn a lot, and make new friends for whatever happens next.


You need to take a long break. At least six months. I did this after my yahoo term was up and I needed it.


What does 6 months do vs say a month?

Genuinely curious, thanks


It gives you time for genuine discovery. Burn out, if you've ever experienced it, is not about exhaustion. It comes from forcing yourself in one direction so long that you forget all of the other things that are fulfilling to you. It takes time for all of those old desires to percolate up to the surface where you can recognize them now that you're no longer focused on that one thing. A month is great if you're balanced but exhausted and need a vacation since you're not trying to change your thinking habits. It just takes longer to recover from burn out because changing your state of mind is exactly the point.


I just resigned from a 4 year stint in the finance industry--not exactly a startup, but the same elements of meritocracy and self-driven achievement were involved in creating the tunnel vision most here, especially the OP, might appreciate.

The result: I have been left with more "free"/me time over the past 2 months than I can remember. The first 1-2 weeks I slept in till about 11am most everyday, due to sheer exhaustion coupled with the fact that I didn't HAVE to be up and alert for anything/anybody. Since then I have been rekindling old passions and finding a new appreciation for so many things I'd forgotten in the course of my work. I can only hope in the future--when I move on to my next project/job/career---I don't take so many things for granted.


Wow, clarity.

Changing your state of mind is a beautiful way to put it.

I'm sure I've flirted or experienced some form of burnout without knowing it to be such.

I've been thinking about how you put it for the last hour.


Actually, it's at least six months.

This is not a break, it's recovering from burnout.

(I took 5 and change months off between Yahoo and Google. It wasn't enough.)


In one month you pretty much have to do the first thing that comes to mind when the month is over.

If you take six months (or better yet a year), you have time to fall in love with an idea, go through the honeymoon stage of prototyping it over a week or two, then discovering you're not into it enough to make it a business. Repeat that cycle a few times, and eventually you'll find something with enough emotional staying power that you can't help but make it your life's work (at least until your next exit).

There's nothing saying this can't happen in a month. But if your attitude is that you're just auditioning ideas during your long time off, you're more likely to make your decision because of fit, not because of time.

By the way, if you have a significant other who doesn't appreciate seeing you idle, this approach is nice because it's indistinguishable from immediately getting back to work.


I'm guessing that one month feels like a vacation while six months is just enough time to become bored and want to get back to work.


Six months is just about enough time off that you really start to miss working.

I'd actually recommend setting off with the goal of staying on the road for an entire year. Just travel. Nothing else. Not even a laptop along.

The cool thing about doing it this way is that you won't make it. You'll have the time of your life for 6 months or so, but then a little voice in the back of your head will start asking for more. 8 months in, your brain will just be crying out for stimulation that it can't get from figuring out which local bus to take from here to there. You'll need to work. You'll go out of your way to find a new project, to the point where you'll book a flight home so that you can get moving now.

That's what you need to recenter yourself. If you just take a month-long break, you'll never truly get off your starting point, so you won't end up where you need to be.


People see you as a coder because they're hiring a coder. They're not prepared to see anything except what they're focusing on. If you don't want to be seen as a coder, don't go to those interviews.

Take some time off. You'll come up with ideas about your work and life that would never happen if you were head down leading a specific life and working on a specific thing. Let your mind wander. We have ideas overnight and in the shower because our brains are wired to take advantage of that.


Dan, I am really surprised that anyone would treat you as code monkey.

I think you should get in touch with Patrick (patio11) and Thomas (tptacek) and get some tips on you how can pitch yourself better.

And yes, as a piano beginner, I love your app. :)


I'm learning piano along with my son. We have been using a mix of software and hardware for the last year, mainly Synthesia and a little Piano Booster. His first lesson is tonight, we're interviewing teachers for the next couple weeks. My question for you: does Etude support a midi controller via the ipad camera kit? Or is it just the sheet music, detached from any external inputs? The app page says nothing about this issue.


OT: Tonara may be of interest. It "listens" to your playing through the iPad mic, and marks your position in the score, and turns the "pages" accordingly.

It doesn't have anywhere near the breadth of scores that Etude does, but there's enough to get started with.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/12/tonara-ipads-app-looks-to-r...


Read the classics. Learn how to paint/draw/sculpt. Travel to random places. Keep a journal on what you want to do with your future.

After a few years of the above, you should have a much better idea as to what you want. Jumping from one intense startup to another (or into a random job) won't give you time to sit back and reflect.


Dan, I remember seeing your story those 1394 days ago (only to join a few days later) and it's amazing to see what you've accomplished.

I've been working on trying to get out and do other interesting things around that aren't tech-related, mostly outdoor and alpine-related. NY area isn't exactly the outdoor paradise that some other places are, but I'm working on getting some like-minded people together to get away from the glare of displays. Get in touch with me if you're interested.

edit: If anyone else is interested, please feel free to get in touch.


NYC has outdoor opportunities, but they require car range of about 4-6 hours and some planning. Tough for people with families, but you kids go have fun.

White Mountains -- are only 4-6 hours away -- gorgeous, and above tree line. Great hiking. People cross-country ski there, don't myself know much about that bit.

Catskills -- IANA Rock Climber but I've _heard_ there are great walls in there, and in the "Gunks". </rumor>

Kayaking -- A lot of water around here, I imagine kayaking (fresh & sea) opportunities can found. Not much white water, I'd guess, but Great Falls is renowned and DC is only four hours away.


1) Start advising small time entrepreneurs full time. Full time. You can join an incubator and do this, or you can simply do it alone.

2) When you are ready to do another startup you will just know it.

Edit: We spend our lifetime surviving, catching up, trying to make it. Once we make it, we realize that we never learned how to just live.


My suggestion is identical to #1 here.


Have you looked around Boston? I haven't seen as much of that attitude here, including in my own company. Otherwise I'd be in trouble ;-) At least, I suggest not taking NYC as representative of the entire East Coast.

As for suggestions, I'd say find a project you like working on and do it. I hate writing code that will never be used, and find it much harder than writing code to solve a need. However, that doesn't necessarily mean "a job": there are lots of non-profits that have ideas for computer programs, open source projects with bugs waiting or kids you might know who'd love a game from Uncle Dan.

If you miss collaboration, try applying all the skills you developed with regards to people and organization to building a for-fun project team. Look around for teenagers who are bored: organize a robotics team or volunteer with a summer technology program. Check out user groups and find non-employment-related coding friends. Reach out to people who might not already be in nerd-y spaces too; maybe you could start a during-school-hours meet up for stay at home parents.

Just because you aren't working for money doesn't mean you can't contribute to projects that will be used and have real-world value. Many of the programs we use every day never made anyone a penny.


Also, drop me a line if you want to brainstorm or introductions.


I should clarify: I neglected to mention that I've accepted a job at an agency in NYC doing some (pretty cool) iOS projects. I'm not sure why I did that so soon, given all I've said here, but I figured I'd give it a fair try, turn around some projects for them, and see if it gives me new perspective.

They gave me a very strong offer and pitched me on the idea that some people leave and come back, and that that's okay (within reason), so I think that's what made the decision.

I posted this today not because I was thinking of skipping out, but because I know that it's not the real next step for me 1-2 years down the road, and I could really benefit from the HN perspective. Thanks to everyone who has posted their comments/contacted me!


Here's my advice. You don't have to have a new gig lined up immediately after you leave your current one. Take a little bit of time off. You probably need a little relaxation and little time to think and be creative again. I promise you new ideas will come in due time. If people are looking for a developer, and you have developer skills, they are going to hit you from that point and ignore the rest. In due time you will gain that same passion you had before but for a new idea and you'll be right back where you were only with a bunch more experience than you had before so things can only get better.


Having weathered the autonomy of running your own company, you're probably no longer going to be happy just writing code for someone else. In a way, running a startup tends to ruin you as an employee.

Take a break. Meet with a lot of people, and see what they're working on. After a while, one of them might click with you, or you can start brainstorming and developing your own ideas. Try to look for a co-founder. And if you'd like to do an incubator, consider applying to YC, as you yourself suggested. They have batches twice a year, so you have plenty of time to figure out what you'd like to work on next.


A friend hit a rut a little while back. He had a few apps in the app store, but wasn't advancing at his day job and couldn't quite get a team together for a startup (I'm partly to blame there...). So, he moved.

To Nicaragua.

Now, he's gotten a group of friends and a couple of local college kids together and he's developing an app to promote tourism in the area. Because of the differences in standard of living, he's got a nicer place than before, goes out for dinner with friends regularly, and is still managing to save a bit. From our conversations, it seems like he's really enjoying the change of pace and the different culture.

So, my recommendation would be to move. Far, far away. There has probably never been a better time to be a programmer in a developing market. Brazil, Argentina, Chille all seem to have rapidly growing developer communities. India is still struggling to break out of being labeled "that place to outsource stuff", and Russia, while significantly hampered by corruption, is still managing to spawn a handful of tech startups. There is eastern Europe/former Soviet republics, where I know a number of western Europe startups are looking to expand to.

Finally, if none of the rest of that tickles your fancy, try Ushahidi: http://ushahidi.com/ . If you have enough money that you don't need to worry about a specific salary, or if you are even wealthy enough to work for free, these guys seems like they might just be able to change the world (or at least Africa). Could be fun...


I went through something sort-of-kind-of similar almost ten years ago. I got a good full-time job as a programmer/sysadmin before I was even out of high school, moved across the country and got another job with a large corporation where I became one of their lead techs while working on a few other projects for them. I made more money than I knew what to do with and I should have been happy.

But, I kept getting more and more unhappy instead, and finally decided that I needed to do something really different. I decided that I'd had it too easy, so I was going to set out to make life really hard for a while. (I had no idea what I was getting myself into. All the same, I'd do it all over again even if I knew.)

Anyway, I left the computer industry entirely, moved back across country, tried to become a forest service ranger and ended up becoming a climbing instructor after having a few other odd jobs. I was broke, but happy. I returned to the tech industry several years later and now I'm much more comfortable with it and well-balanced.

You have resources and you sound like you're a lot smarter than I was, so you could probably do something similar without the kind of hardships I experienced. If you're not sure of what you want to do next, then go out and experience the world in a completely different way until you find the next thing you want to do. Go and do things you've never done before, then come back and start another company.

The main thing with this advice is just to make sure that you don't do nothing -- make sure you keep pushing yourself to do something every day. But I doubt that you'll really have that problem from the sounds of it.


Take a year and go travel. Set aside an amount for a healthy runway when you return, then you will have better clarity if you want to start something new or go work on someone else's idea. There are many companies that segment the workforce into "can code" and mba/product people. Try not to work for one of those places. You can find someplace that values both skills in an individual however it may take a while.


Sublet your apartment, go to South America (Beunos Aires) while its warm. Drink coffee, eat steak and figure out your next move. More ideas will come.


I wish I had some advice for you, Dan, but I don't. I'm just leaving this comment to say congrats to my old roommate. You're the man now, dog!


Agree with most of the comments here - taking time off, traveling, getting inspired again by things you like might be the best. Then you could consider meeting people and seeing if you can help people out - as an advisor to get your energy and ideas back to full mode. I would love to discuss with you about your experience with the sheet music store for iPad - contact me if you can


"If you can code, then you can only code. Forever."

There are sets of programmers complaining about being forced into management if they want to progress any further with their career, so that is not necessarily true.

I'd do a gap-year style explore the world if you've never done one. Go to all of the major continents and regions, and don't stick only to the developed countries. It will broaden your perspective.


Firstly, Congrats! You're in a position that most of us can only dream of. :)

Ok, so now you need to pay attention to articles like this:

- http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1383376

- http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2275643

- http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=398597

- http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/azgs6/iama_guy_who_sol...

- http://philip.greenspun.com/materialism/early-retirement/

- http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-to-do-with-you...

Hope these articles were give you some insight. Again, congrats and lighten up! There is more to life than working.


"They don't realize that, in addition to engineering, I actually..."

(1) If they don't realize those things, then you've written your resume and cover letter all wrong, and you're selling yourself in interviews all wrong. Even if you spent most of your time writing code, de-emphasize that aspect of your accomplishments and sell the other aspects.

(2) Perhaps you're talking to the wrong "They", i.e. you're applying for the wrong jobs.

(3) If you're looking to work for a company larger than your startup (which is likely), then think about the parts of your work at the startup that you enjoyed the most and want to do more of. In larger companies, people tend to have roles that are more specialized instead of being jack-of-all-trades. Pursue opportunities and market yourself around the specialty you want to do more of. Tell people "I enjoyed doing X and was successful at it, and I really want to develop my skills in that area."


I wish I had your problems :) But actually as a "wanna-be" entrepreneur I am probably more qualified to answer your question since I probably spend more time than I should fantasizing about what I would do with my free time if I somehow managed to escape the black-holeish gravitational pull of a 9-5.

In terms of my own goals I would try becoming better at things that I currently don't have time to work on. And this of course is different for each individual. Personally, I'd paint :)

I would also share my knowledge with whoever was willing to listen. The skills and experience behind your success is something that I'm sure thousands of less-experienced entrepreneurs would kill to have access to. Invariably you will meet new people, hear new ideas, and this in itself should prove very satisfying. It might even give you that extra bit of inspiration you need to restart your own next big project.


I actually started something new, managed the product, a whole team, did a fair bit of design, promotion/press, successfully exited, all sorts of stuff that doesn't really fall under "Objective-C developer."

You would be perfect for a startup where that skill and experience mix is often desperately needed. But you are burned out. (Which is OK as long as you don't stay burned out.)

So do you want to teach? Join something like Y combinator but as an advisor. (Can you join without dropping most of your financial gain? Can you drop a big chunk and still have enough left to be comfortable?)

How about go into a wildly different filed, something you have a kernel of interest in but have never worked in, forest management, trapeze artists, C++ developer. (One of those suggestion was a joke.)

Or travel. (Just enjoy life for a while!)


Have you considered working out of a coworking space for a while?

There are a ton here in NYC: most are single-founder friendly, treat engineers like people, and provide exactly the kind of energetic atmosphere you say you're looking for - and you might just run into an opportunity that interests you.


There is also a potential synergy with dangover's incubator idea.

dangover, quite impressed with your accomplishment. This is perhaps a wrong headed idea (edit: but I would do it if I had your business and product skills):

Take your (iOS/Obj-C) engineering, product development, business development, and startup skills and experience, and combine them with your incubator idea. There is a gap (and not a new one at that) that has many startups and even established businesses in NYC feeling the pain, and that is finding and keeping tech talent. An incubator that, for example, also provided a shared framework for rolling out prototypes and 1st cut products, and had a core staff of experienced engineers to triage, could crank things out, get the products out in front of the customers, and then you can weed out the wheat from the chaff.

All the best to you. Enjoy your well earned success.


> But the thing that bugs me about this is that nobody seems to think that I'm anything more than a code monkey. They don't realize that, in addition to engineering, I actually started something new, managed the product, a whole team, did a fair bit of design, promotion/press, successfully exited, all sorts of stuff that doesn't really fall under "Objective-C developer." Not exactly covered in the Stanford course. I'm not usually so arrogant, but it's frustrating.

Do you market yourself that way? You have to tell people what they're supposed to see you as, and then they'll decide whether it's true or if you're just pulling their leg.

That said, I agree with the other posters and think you should definitely take a break and allow yourself to drift into the next big thing.


That's a good point. If there were some openings for "startup douche", I'd apply to those. I think I'd be very qualified. :)


Forgive me for playing psychologist, but I'm detecting a bit of insecurity. You should internalize that you really are awesome & rare, as evidenced by the fact that you single-handedly created a high-quality product and sold it.

Examples:

> I'm (so far) a single founder.

Doesn't matter, you have a great track record. Yes, it's better to have a good team, so you should keep an eye out for teammates.

> nobody seems to think that I'm anything more than a code monkey

Sounds like maybe you haven't presented yourself as more than that to them.

> If there were some openings for "startup douche", I'd probably apply to those.

What's douchey about winning?


A digital sheet music app/store is something I dreamed of creating even before the iPad was revealed (along with many other geek musicians, I'm sure). Congrats on succeeding with the idea. Since there's not much value left in keeping an already-executed idea to myself:

  May 13, 2008

  I want to make a piano music stand that integrates a 19" or 24"
  widescreen LCD with built-in sheet music display software.  This
  would allow a pianist to access a large library of music without
  having to store it all or risk damage to fragile printed music.
  This display could also be linked to a MIDI or other playback
  and recording system to evaluate the correctness of a
  performance, quickly transform a performance into printed music,
  or control the parameters of a synthesized piano.  The stand
  would be designed to accommodate printed music in front of the
  LCD display.  A reflective display from Pixel Qi would be the
  coolest, with more of a paper look.  It would be really cool to
  work with Bosendorfer to have the system integrated into their
  player pianos.

  The display could serve as a useful educational tool by grading
  performance as mentioned previously, by masking out parts of a
  piece to aid memorization, and by presenting
  video/animated/automated lessons to a student.  It could also
  include teleconferencing software/hardware to allow remote
  education.  If the piano includes a clutch to detach the keys
  from the hammers, it might be able to be used as a software
  synthesizer.

  The system could also be used to provide prerecorded or
  automatically generated accompaniment for a solo pianist.
But what should a person who wants to take a break and get some broader experience but is tainted with an engineering background do? Is the only option for me to just suck it up, gather the courage, and commit to striking it on my own with another idea? Have any of you ever been at a similar crossroads after exiting something?

Now... I almost never indulge in unprompted self promotion, but tongue-in-cheek and at the risk of sounding like an overconfident idiot (heck, I know this will make me sound like an idiot), you should work with me on my "big idea": http://www.nitrogenlogic.com/.


I've been in your situation.

What worked for me is I just hacked on fun personal projects. Like "hmm, that's a new API, let's try it out". I did it for fun, not to achieve a larger goal.

And gradually ideas would pop up, like "now that works, I wonder what if I also combined it with this..." and after a few months larger ideas started coalescing.

Given that you've had some success, you probably should look for something that resonates more strongly as "you're passionate about it" vs. "it can make money".

And once you have an idea that could develop into a real product, all your experience starting a company becomes highly valuable. Don't just be a code monkey for someone else :)


Take a cooking class. Or buy a bunch of ingredients and just start playing. For me, this works well because its an alternate way to be creative and lets me work with my hands. Nice way to step back from coding all the time.


I'm deeply skeptical of business types lately, which is why my buddies and I started our own company, sans suits. Maybe finding another group of misfit technicians would be more your speed. If you are interviewing for a job under a biz-dev cat whose only useful purpose is going to meetings, doing high-level idea and strategy work, and generally steering the boat, they're not going to be structurally inclined to invite you to get up in their business. (Which is where the real power in an organization lies, unfortunately.)


Dan, congrats, you've accomplished quite a bit. I'll echo what others are saying and suggest taking an extended break to recharge. Visit some new places and try some new thing but most importantly, I'd also suggest reinforcing your existing relationships and to try to make some new ones. I've found that doing so increases the amount of ideas and opportunities you'll have. Figure out what your runway and burn rate is so that you're not pressured to just 'find something'. best of luck!


If you're going to travel, come to Europe! It can be really refreshing to get to know some new cultures. There's so much to see here. I'll give you a tour of Berlin if you're in the area. And I agree with the other people: take a break. Don't feel guilty about not having goals for a few months or a year. In the end, a high quality of life is very important for enjoying life, and if you're going to start too quickly while not having recovered there are chances you won't enjoy it.


If you're gonna travel, don't go to Europe. Different cultures? Go to Asia/Africa.


Love your app! Purchased it a long time ago ... thought it was well polished and easy to use. Not surprising that you got bought out!

I agree with the others that say take an extended time off. Travel, read, pursue some new hobbies, do some things you have always wanted to do, etc, etc. Let your brain relax and enjoy life ... without a doubt that time spent will lead to something great down the road. Something much better than if you dive into something new right now.

Congrats again!


If you are not hurting for money(which I doubt), I would suggest taking a nice break, travel, pursue some other skills like new language(Spanish, Portuguese), photography, cooking, volunteering, adventure sports. It will recharge you and maybe along the path you will find some interesting problems you could solve, for an instance a software solution for a problem that exists in some foreign country but you dont see the same problem in US.


I guess now it's time to commit to your own interests instead of forging forward with your work commitments.

Re-learn to relax and be comfortable doing less than you were doing before.

Travel is good for that. So is a little time away from computers/information overload. Regroup with friends. Cultivate some inner peace by tying up any loose ends in other areas.

Congrats on your work so far it's time to enjoy the rewards of your hard work even if it is sooner than you would have liked.


What kind of jobs are you applying to? Are you applying to be a product manager then they start grilling you on code? The people want you to code is because that's what they need. Look at what your resume is conveying and only apply for positions you're really interested in. Try taking the specific technical experience off your resume and submit it to a few positions.


"... nobody seems to think that I'm anything more than a code monkey"

Are you talking to the wrong people?

I realized something similar when going through tech interviews with a company (in a field I knew well) and none of the dev managers could tell me anything about their products competitive landscape... The team leads were completely unfamiliar with their competitor's features.


"For some reason, the logic on the east coast, and even in a lot of SV is, 'If you can code, then you can only code. Forever.'"

Unfortunately, that's not only an east coast thing. It seems to be related to the size of the company. The larger the company, the more they seem to feel/act that way :/


If you have the runway, bum around. Take the time and enjoy it. Work on what interests you. And don't let yourself be jerked around by some false "engineering background" stigma, you are clearly a kick ass hacker. Hack away. Good things will come (again).


Go on a sabbatical. Don't just drive into something else without a chance to decompress, learn from what you've just accomplished, and find a new direction you can be just as passionate about.

How long does this take? Depends on your personality.


Take a break. Volunteer your times and do things you wouldn't have done or never had time to do before. Life is funny in that if you keep on walking, you'll end up somewhere surprising :) Good luck.


A lot of the incubators/VC/.. would love to have you advice their companies. Perhaps get connected with them and bring the idea up.

Good way to start is by giving some talks in the startup circuit.


i was exactly in your shoes. i sold a company as a single founder and after i sold it, it felt good and left a big void in my life that i tried to fill with other new ideas but was never quite the same. i think part of this reason is that, when you have a successful business, you know every little aspect of it to the point that other businesses doesn't hit it to your heart. but once your next business takes off, it'll be all the same. it's just a matter of time.


Open a physical space, like coworking place or hacker community center.

It puts you at the center of community, gives you tons of new contacts and entertains you a lot.


> But what should a person who wants to take a break and get some broader experience [...] do?

What kind of broader experience are you looking for?


I'd love to hear more about the contract issues.


Take a holiday bro. Grab a notebook(paper) and some nice pens and spend 2 weeks in a foreign country without any specific goals.


A break probably isn't a bad idea


Sounds to me like you already answered your own question. It also sounds like you might be second guessing yourself and need some reassurance. That's alright, we're only human.

If I were you, I'd take a good long break. Regroup for a third of it and relax. Then do some solo tinkering and see if anything gets you excited. Maybe you'll want to go another round with a new business at that point, maybe not.

Join another team only if you think you can handle not being the top dog. Make sure that whatever position you get, you're happy with the amount of control you have while still keeping in mind that this is someone else's baby you're caring for now. If all that's a good fit and agreeable then continue on that path. If not, do your own thing.

As for being type-cast as Engineer-Only, well, it's tricky... maybe you should leave out the part where you know how to code. You don't have to tell people you're a programmer right away. Get into the area of the business you'd like most before mentioning your other skills. Definitely mention your other skills, just not right off the bat.

Other than that I'd say congratulations, you seem like you're doing very well and have luxuries that a lot of us (me too) are striving for. It's awesome to see people like you who want to keep going round after round in entrepreneurship. Its people like you who prove that when you something out of love, not money, you truly succeed. Hopefully I helped. Good luck to you!


I'll add my voice to the "take a break" chorus. On the marketing problem -- people seeing you as a code monkey -- you could look for product development or project management jobs, and say "oh yes btw also I can code," but you're better off filing that away for future reference and travelling for a while. It's good to have a life!




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