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Any block proposer can submit a whistleblower report. There is a pretty significant bounty if you discover a slashable offence, so there is strong incentive to include these in any proposed blocks.

https://eth2book.info/bellatrix/part2/incentives/slashing/




But you still need a majority to acknowledge the report

> Slashing is triggered by the evidence of the offence being included in a beacon chain block. Once the evidence is confirmed by the network, the offending validator (or validators) is slashed.

It is a powerless mechanic if the majority of validates don’t want to play along.


There may be other solutions or defence mechanisms, but one solution would be to fork again and remove the Ether those validators have staked from your chain as part of your fork.

A chain is defined by a set of rules that everyone on the chain agrees to abide by. Braking the rules damages the economic utility of the chain, so the Ether on the chain where the validators colluded to break the rules would be worth less, as a result of their actions. The validators are locked on that chain (as they can't prevent a fork from excluding them), so they have a strong incentive against harming the chain. Ethereum is not majoritarian. I don't have to abide by the will of the majority. I only need to come to a consensus about the rules and state of the chain with the people with whom I want to share the chain.

PoS makes it much easier to escape a malicious majority compared to PoW where the hashing power majority can follow the minority anywhere unless the minority is willing to switch to a different hashing algorithm. Even then, the majority could sell their mining equipment and buy new equipment that will work on the new chain on the same terms as that chain's honest minority can. With PoS, the malicious majority would need to buy new Ether from the honest minority who can then just fork again after having made a profit on the attack, and can continue to do that until the malicious majority runs out of resources or realizes that they cannot censor a fork in Ethereum's PoS system.


> Braking the rules damages the economic utility of the chain, so the Ether on the chain where the validators colluded to break the rules would be worth less, as a result of their actions.

So you’re going to create a new fork, remove the money from the majority of the wealthy stakeholders who are governing the system, and expect this one to be be seen as legitimate? The one that is explicitly giving the finger to the wealthy?

Good luck!


I don't think legitimacy is a meaningful concept in this context. I would use the chain with the greatest utility, which is determined by whether I like the rules, whether the rules are consistently and predictably enforced, and whether other people I want to interact with are using that chain. Whether the people who use the chain have more Ether or more computer power compared to the people who use a competing chain doesn't affect utility.

While I don't think it's meaningful to say that one chain is more legitimate than another, if I was forced to make such a deamination in this case, I would consider the chain where the rules are consistently and predictably enforced in a way that leads to predictable outcomes more legitimate than a chain where validators have colluded to arbitrarily subvert the enforcement of the rules.


Legitimacy doesn’t matter in the context of currency? I’m not sure the markets will agree.


Do you have a source for this? As I understand from the spec[1], any block proposer can submit a slashing report while including their block in the chain, and the protocol (ie: the client software that everybody runs) will reward them automatically if the slashing conditions are satisfied.

The majority of validators could perhaps block this by all running forks of the various consensus client software, with some code changed to set the reward to zero, but why would they do that?

[1] https://github.com/ethereum/consensus-specs/blob/dev/specs/p...


Anyone can include a slashing report in their block, but it does nothing unless the block is approved by a majority.

If we imagine a 90/10 split of opinions that leads to a hard fork, the 90 majority can either be satisfied and with their fork and be nice or they can stonewall the 10% fork and refuse to approve any blocks that supports the idea that they deserve to be slashed. Because the only thing that can punish the majority is the approval of the majority. And because allowing another fork to exist reduces the value of the other forks. And because it would just be nicer if instead of having two forks we just kicked out all those annoying validates we don’t agree with.


In your scenario, the 10% who are running forked software risk losing all their deposit by double-signing blocks on the same network and chain ID as the majority 90%. In practice, if 10% wanted to split off from the majority and run incompatible clients, they would be forced to use a different network or chain id, which means they are running a different blockchain.


In my scenario the it is the 90% that is double signing, and they are risking nothing because it is the same 90% that gets to punish them.

If the 10% wants to fork off and do a completely different blockchain, what happens to the folks who aren’t colluding either way? I mean, while we’re down to just throw away people’s stakes, why not do so for everyone who isn’t explicitly on our side?


The scenario sounds extremely implausible; a chain with 90% colluding actors would be worthless, and the remaining 10% of honest users would likely exit to another chain that is not majority run by malicious nodes.

For example: migrating to a new chain ID and restarting with a validator set limited only to the public keys of the 10% who are acting honestly, and loosening that restriction slowly over time.

The attack would end up being extremely costly: not only because it makes the original chain’s token price worthless (who wants to be on a malicious chain?), but because the attacker may also have their deposit slashed in the new chain by the now-majority of honest users defending it.


The 90% is an arbitrary and unnecessary figure. Note it is not 90% of actors either. It is the bag holders of the bulk of the wealth. Far easier to imagine. And if you try to fork off into a world where the most important financial players have nothing, you will not be taken seriously. The money is more important than the crypto.


I don't think there is any consensus protocol that can survive an attack by 90% of nodes.


That is true. However, to the point made above, proof of work is actually using a scarce resource. If you fork a proof of work chain, the amount of mining power remains the same. You can’t mine both chains with the same resources. If you fork a proof of stake chain… everything just copies over. And then maybe if people place nicely in the name of the being good crypto citizens they agree to only focus on one chain.




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