I don't really know what "View Source" has to do with not writing your own HTML, but I completely agree with your argument. I'm not saying I want to always write HTML by hand, I'm saying it should be done until such a time that WSIWYG editors, online web site creators and so forth get to the level that they generate proper HTML. I don't get any more pleasure out of writing boiler-plate HTML than I do from writing boiler-plate code for the backend. If someone has created a framework or library that already does what I need (or gets me on the road to what I need without getting in my way), I'm certainly going to use it.
Needing a little CSS and HTML to get you past a certain level is no big deal, assuming the initial code generated is semantic, (mostly) valid, extensible, blah blah blah. Having tables nested 5-deep is none of these things.
No sorry, I think I as unclear. I meant the opposite. 'View Source' will be removed because no one should want to view source.
What I was saying is that the ability of non technical users to make sites, no matter how bad that code, is much more important then anything else in this debate. Standards should (i think) almost be written specifically for machines.
Sure, you can think of creating the best possible environment that makes sense & so that the pages can be used on future browsers & browser like things, but that is dwarfed by the prospect of letting grandma have a website.
Sure, you can think of creating the best possible environment that makes sense & so that the pages can be used on future browsers & browser like things, but that is dwarfed by the prospect of letting grandma have a website.
I would argue that the continued evolution and improvement of the Web are far, far more important than letting Grandma have a website. Besides, Grandma can already have a website -- there are dozens of services out there like Typepad, Wordpress, Blogspot, etc. which allow Joe Public to have a website -- and he should be able to have a website, so long as whoever (or whatever) makes that site uses proper HTML, CSS, and Standards to create it.
Would it be great to get to a point where Standards are written for machines, I can write some super high-level markup that describes how I want a page laid out (or just draw it!) and nobody has to write another line of HTML or CSS, ever? Sure. But it's not going to happen any time soon and pretending like it has just hurts everybody.
If your framework generates a 30-character ID for damn near every element on the page (hi, Microsoft), it's Not Good Enough.
If your language generates tables for damn near everything, it's Not Good Enough.
I would argue that the continued evolution and improvement of the Web are far, far more important than letting Grandma have a website
That's a little cheeky. What I was implying that letting Grandma have a website is more important to the (not as then) the continued evolution and improvement of the Web.' Standards are (to that end) important inasmuch as they allow the guys that make typepad, wordpress & friends to let her do so. That is the criteria they should be judged by.
Needing a little CSS and HTML to get you past a certain level is no big deal, assuming the initial code generated is semantic, (mostly) valid, extensible, blah blah blah. Having tables nested 5-deep is none of these things.