Today, no way. Maybe 2 decades ago when I was a teenager and valued money way more. But regardless of his business outcomes, I'm not going to ever work for a manchild throwing public tantrums, who can't be criticised for valid reasons. His decision making process of throwing stuff and seeing what sticks is also something I don't want to deal with every day at work.

Life's too short to be a dictator's puppet.

Why would you have done it back when you valued money more given that he doesn't pay more than the competition? In fact he seems to be cutting every possible benefit and increasing hours.

Working for his companies doesn't seem like some tradeoff between top compensation and a healthy work environment - his employees are getting neither of these things.

I assumed the context to be something like "would you still work there after the take over", or "would you accept the offer if that was the only big VC place you could get to" rather than "would you apply to work there while having other options". Otherwise, I would agree on just "no".

I suspect it is more of the situation like at Twitter. You have a job already and you need to decide whether to quit if Elon acquires your company. You might care more about getting a paycheck then whatever nonsense ensues.

> Maybe 2 decades ago when I was a teenager and valued money way more.

Even then it would not be a good idea to work for any of Musk's companies. The engineers that work there are notoriously paid little compared to industry standards.

Exact;y. I used to think that I'd go out of my way to jump at an opportunity to work for Elon Musk, and I've made many posts defending/promoting his ventures & skills.

But after what I've seen in the three weeks, and especially in the last two days, no forking way.

First, that he so obviously missed the issue with ID verification of important accounts, AFTER having worked in payments where you MUST find and block scammers & criminals, showed that he's just happy to waste everyone's time and make a mess based only on his own blustering ignorance.

Second, seeing his blatantly ignorant tweets about "1000 RPCs" slowing down rendering a Twitter home page, and how the actual number turns out to be "Zero", the emperor's cloths are truly gone. The now-fired employee was absolutely correct that Musk should have asked about it in the internal Slack or email channels, not in public.

Rather than the astute technologist, it looks like the curtain has dropped and he's just another blustering, manipulative, and abusive fool that got lucky at the beginning and had a large pile of funds to play with. I will grant that he is 1) exceptionally determined, 2) willing to take risks, and 3) does have some clarity on removing traditional bureaucratic obstacles. But I'd not want to be associated with him; we can learn that stuff from afar without the angst & abuse.

I value money a lot more than I did two decades ago.

Two decades ago I was a young, “fight the system”, James Dean want-to-be.

Now I have a family, mortgage, and the kids need braces.

And my water heater is making weird sounds.

I don't think any of that justifies anything except in thevery short term. You gotta do what you gotta do sometimes, but not for life. Your family would rather have their dad than their dads paycheck. It doesn't require 120hours of hell at work just to secure food and shelter.

Why do I care? Everyone who is willing to abase themselves and suffer abuse makes the world suck more for everyone else who would demand a little basic dignity.

I was responding to a post about being willing to work for Elon Musk … not work 120 hours a week or abase myself.

For example, if I found myself being pushed into “voluntary” meditation sessions where I chant “I am not me but, We™” I’d be out of there fast.

Or if my boss wanted me to do something horribly unethical like provide fine grained tracking data for users.

But AFAIK Tesla, SpaceX, Boring Company, etc. are pretty typical in regards to work life balance, pay, etc.

Yeah, but there are other places that pay decently. I've got 2 decades of experience now, and get paid enough in a good place. I know where I could get paid more, but even with a family, we don't need more. I even reduced my work to 4 days a week with the 20% hit and it's still enough.

For software engineers this is often simple to achieve.

To be honest, I was a fan and explained away every offense he has made to date UNTIL he fired the Twitter Android app engineer publicly on Twitter. I felt that this engineer was engaging Elon about the problems at hand in a way that was admirable considering the circumstances. It was like the engineer knew he was falling on the sword, but at the same time was rational in his explanations of the current state of the app. I felt like he was being constructive.

When Elon decided that this type of person needed to go, I flipped on him. He might succeed, but I really don't like him any more. To him it's the cost of doing business, but in my opinion that single event will put more of a chill on his future hiring than any of his prior bullshit.

Elon publicly apologized that the android app was terrible, without naming anyone. Then this guy responded publicly calling out Elon.

I don't know any CEO that would be cool with that. If Elon named him, sure, rip him apart. But Elon simply referenced the android app, and this guy took it personally in the worst way.

My read on that thread was that Elon was the one who took being corrected personally. The guy just pointed out that what Elon said about "1000 requests" was not correct nor was it the root cause of the performance issue Elon mentioned. If he had just said "sorry the Android app is slow, we're working on it", I suspect no one would have replied to him.

Yeah it was weird that Elon dropped that technical info, I assume he's talking about requests that happen on the backend that have nothing to do with android specifically? He couldn't have really thought 1000 round trips were happening between the phone and twitter. At least I hope not.

Elon should 100% be okay with one of his engineers responding to such a thing publicly if the engineer stays on topic and debates the points.

My interpretation of why he fired the guy was that Elon thought the app sucked and this guy had worked on it for 6 years. After a cursory grilling, he thought the guy's answers didn't hold water so he must be part of the problem. This is really bad form and doesn't account for the many externalities that the guy had faced. Most importantly, having the balls to call out the richest man in the world, who is also your boss, in a public form and STILL keep it on topic and professional shows that he has a good head on his shoulders. I really didn't think he was trying to score points or make it personal.

So in other words Elon is just like every other CEO in your estimation? Wasn't the whole point of the image Elon has been building that he's somehow different from everybody else? Then he reveals himself to just be the same old same old crap we've become accustomed to.

If it were me, I probably wouldn't have replied. I read later this was a Staff engineer working on optimizing the android app iirc. He was more blunt than I'd be comfortable with speaking to my CEO, but Elon seems to be someone who likes to get to the point so I was kind of surprised he reacted this way.

When your CEO is an engineer and wants to have an engineering conversation, you speak engineer together. The risk is that you lose. That's how Musk seems to have taken it, that the guy's answers didn't check out.

It bothered me quite a bit that he didn't give the engineer points for trying and keeping it on topic in the hellstorm of a thousand people shouting insults at Elon.

I think what I didn't like about it was Elon immediately turned it into this adversarial "what have you done to fix this" conversation. But I guess the guy did open with "this is wrong".

Kinda reminds me of the ex-google engineer Damore case back in 2017.

Except Damore never did it publicly but it was leaked to the press anyway.

And anyone taking public adversarial stances against their bosses rarely last.

Corporations on general are ran like dictatorships, with few exceptions.

You were okay with him calling a stranger a "pedo guy"?

I know he won. It was still worse behavior than firing an employee.

Spot on. You explained it perfectly how I feel about this.

I’ve done it (years ago). 4 managers fired in 8 months. I had to leave so I could do actual work. Seeing these Twitter reports is giving me flashbacks.

> Watching Elon gaslight current and former Twitter employees in the public square

People are using "gaslight" in contexts where it doesn't apply way too much these days.

What you’re saying is:

> People keep using that word. I don’t think it means what they think it means.

And I agree.

Yes, absolutely. I have two kids under five at the moment, so the long hours in office requirement might not currently work. But I'd consider taking an engineering IC role in future. Elon is a wartime CEO. Tim Cook is probably the best peacetime CEO active. Working for either would be an extremely interesting experience.

I respect your choice and to each their own, but to characterize Elon as a wartime CEO when he’s caused 80% of the crisis is a very generous characterization. His “leadership” thus far has been sporadic, ill thought out, and reckless.

I dunno where you come up with that number. Twitter was in real straits with investors compared with other companies in its class well before Musk was even on its radar. Two activist shareholder coups later and ousting of Dorsey, lackluster profits in good times, plenty of its own culture war scandals despite people piling on FB... can't pin that on Musk.

The peer comment to mine by dragontamer sums it up better than I could.

I’m not saying problems didn’t exist before Elon, but Musk has been a net negative for the company who thus far has only managed to make a bad situation worse.

Elon is a wartime CEO in the same way that Putin is a wartime president.

Twitter's problems were caused by Elon though.

Elon structured the deal (or at least signed the deal) such that Twitter is $13 Billion in debt upon signing, and therefore losing an estimated 4-million a day because of it.

Elon did not have to structure the deal like this. Elon did not have to push for the unsustainable $44 Billion buyout price like this. Heck, I'm pretty sure that Elon has enough money to buy out the $13 Billion debt (which is only worth $9 or maybe $8 Billion now on the open market) and solve this problem right now.

------

But instead, Elon _chooses_ to fire half the staff at Twitter. Elon _CHOOSES_ to get into public arguments with his engineers (and fires them afterwards). Etc. etc.

This calamity is a series of unforced errors. If the debt is too much of a burden, buy out the debt (or don't get into the debt to begin with). Its really not that hard of a problem.

--------

I've posted elsewhere on this. But the gist is, Elon took Twitter, a company losing $200 million/year, and instantly turned it into a company that was losing $1500 million/year. (And that's not counting the advertising exodus, which has been estimated at another $600 million of revenue lost due to Elon's poor decisions). Of course he's in panic mode right now, that's a lot of losses.

But Elon _caused_ all of this, with his crappy leadership.

Even after reports of him firing people who disagree with him? I would hate to work for someone with such a big ego. Short way to have a team of bootlickers and opportunists.

Well said.

I think I could not work with a boss I couldn't have a disagreement with. Just beeing a yes-man is not health for you, your boss and your work. Nobody knows everything better. Criticism is hard to learn.

I have 2 friends who work for Elon (in meetings with him regularly). You can disagree with the man. It’s allowed. You better be standing on solid ground through because the man is smart.

Also, I cannot think of many bosses who you could publicly disagree with on Twitter where being fired isn’t a likely outcome.

> You better be standing on solid ground through because the man is smart.

You act as if this makes him some untouchable gods. Recent events should have made it very clear that “smart” people can act like bigger idiots than your average idiot.

Recent HN threads have also made this clear to me.

Harsh but fair.

I also can't think of many bosses who would publicly disparage your work on Twitter to pressure you to work longer hours.

Those are the conditions though. Your options are to work for him or not. What else are you going to do? Complain about it on HN? For what?

Those are not the conditions Twitter employees signed for when they started working for Twitter.

Ever see a shitty restaurant with a big sign that says "under new management"?

Things change, can't be a retirement home for millennials while losing money indefinitely. Twitter is in San Francisco, not Portland.

There is a good chance this company will simply run out of money and go bankrupt.

You could play the speculation game of whether it has a better fighting chance with or without Elon (people who don't like his politics and personality will no doubt take the opportunity to screech uninteresting things on this matter) but here we are.

If it doesn't energize people who work there and they want to throw in the towel that's alright. But people who stay need to be clear eyed that the road ahead is uncertain and difficult. Especially in this economy.

If you work for twitter the memelord posting things you find objectionable is the least of your problems. Not to mention highly ironic.

Fair point. Elon seems to apply very different measures what counts as free speech though, depending on how much he likes it.

If my work was criticised by my boss in public with objectively (very) wrong statements, I would criticize him publicly as well (depending on the circumstances oc).

I’m not trying to be the annoying source guy here, but can you share some examples of this so called Elon-centric definition of free speech? I would genuinely like to know if I am wrong about that.

Accounts satirizing Elon Musk get banned. Clearly "free speech" has a bright line drawn at the boundary of Musk's ego.

I know you want this to be true but it’s not. All impersonation accounts are banned. Parody is fine. That’s consistent with how free speech in the US is enforced.

At Elon’s companies working hard is a requirement but you don’t get rewarded in return.

Tesla/SpaceX pays peanuts despite Tesla’s outsized stock returns.

If you believe in the mission, that’d be the only reason to join.

I have to imagine Tesla does RSUs though right? So engineers are doing great over a 5 year timeline.

When I knew people at Tesla they were real fanboys of the car, which isn’t a bad thing, but if you’re trying to hire, like, ISO26262 certification experts I’d focus on paying a few experts well. The 24 year old fanboys can do the grunt work, but some well paid experts need to lead that process, and I doubt they’ll be that motivated by wanting to work for fast car guy.

I think that was true when TSLA was a gravity defying rocket ship. Not sure that's something we can rely on to happen at this point. More players are getting serious about EVs.

I'd work for Elon 10 years ago when he was focused on things like making life multi planetary and advancing the electrification of transport. If I didn't have a family I'd work for SpaceX 10 years ago for 1/2 my current pay and pull 80 hour weeks.

Elon today seems to be focusing most of his energy on political concerns that are frankly beneath him and very very stupid. Someone with his means and skills should not care about anything with a <50 year time horizon.

My only hope for him now is that he doesn't destroy SpaceX or cannibalize it financially for some vastly less important reason.

Related tangent: a lot of people are reading way too much into what Elon is doing now. I see a lot of Qanon quality speculations from his detractors. I think it's pretty simple. Elon went and got himself "pilled" by the same BS that "pilled" probably 1/3 of the Hacker News audience over the past 10 years. I wonder if he's been on the 'chans. Ockham's razor says no more complex explanation is necessary.

What if freedom of discourse was more important than spaceships or electric cars or solar panels? I think it is. My guess is Elon does too.

Elon has completely failed to communicate what he means by "freedom of discourse". Judged by his actions so far it seems like it means "mostly the same as Twitter's existing policies, but you can't impersonate people and you especially can't impersonate Elon". Which seems like it's less freedom than before(?)

It honestly seems like he hasn't thought about the problem deeply enough to have a coherent vision here. We'll see, I guess.

I’m glad he’s giving it a shot. No idea if it will work, but I am quite sure that progress as a species is dependent on a culture of open conjecture and criticism. Old Twitter was trending the other way imo, esp when it came to working with the government to decide what was true or not.

The problem is that social media as presently designed faces a choice between being an absolute cess pit of trolls and hate or being sometimes over-moderated. There is no way to do moderation right that will not get you accused of being biased or operating in bad faith by a large faction of people.

If Elon can solve that he truly is a genius. So far no Internet forum has managed to achieve anything but that trade-off.

Elon is one of those guys who is incidentally doing good for the human race but i suspect the motive is mostly for personal glory.

Both/and I think, at least for Elon 1.0 (Elon up to about 5 years ago).

I can't imagine why anyone would want to work at Twitter right now. Forced to live in the most expensive area of the country at a company that's burning money going into a recession, massive turnover, a CEO known for irrational and impulsive decisions, and at the end of the day its just a microblogging service. There is no awesome vision that I can see for it.

Mental health is way more important.

I would also never work for Amazon. Their recruiting has contacted me many times over the years. But not in a million year would I work for them.

Just to provide my data point. I am an okay SDE, average for this site. I enjoy working at AWS. My team is particularly good to belong to, but I know at least 5 teams I would enjoy working at, and just 1 I would avoid. I work normal hours, have phenomenal pay and benefits, and the scale is very satisfying.

The only thing I dislike is the yearly performance review (I really really hate boasting about my achievements), but I heard all the large tech companies are like this, so I probably will have to deal with them for the rest of my career.

I've concluded amazon is a dice roll. I know people who work there and it's a chill deal, and I've heard plenty of stories who bounce out before they get their initial vest. You just have to be ready to put in solid effort and know that you might end up with a bad situation.

Why not? I've heard about Amazon's horrible conditions for drivers, but haven't heard too much about how it is in their developer department.

Same. I value my work/life balance too much these days.

Maybe if the pay was extremely hardcore, but let’s be honest

I thought I heard pay was solid at Tesla and spacex as long as the stock keeps going up. Twitter is probably all cash and not as great a deal anymore?

We should qualify the poll question with: "... assuming current pay rates and working conditions."

I suspect that nearly 100% would vote "yes" under the right conditions. E.g., $1e7 USD/day, no strings attached.

No way. He is undoubtedly smart and well-documented as unwise. I have seen enough organizations run by smart, unwise people.

It’s not often you see people distinguish between smart and unwise. I agree with your assessment. For me, smart is about navigating difficult obstacles and overcoming them. Wisdom is overseeing and having insight in what your actions (including what you say) have for an impact.

Impact is a good way to put it. At least dumb, unwise people have less impact.

Yes. I also feel that a lot of people may be misunderstanding the motivation here. I think Musk is saying what he’s saying for a very specific simple reason. To weed out people who are just cruising along and being paid not doing much. I doubt he’ll continue pushing this narrative that much when he gets the desired result, getting back to a more reasonable typical startup execution mode.

And I never was a fanboy, I just worked myself at Meta for almost 4 years and this is literally what I would do if (god forbid lol) I’d be given a chance to take over as a CEO. Let go of 50-70% of slackers or just people doing random shit and shut down some ridiculous orgs. Make sure everybody understands the culture changed. And then proceed in a more normal fashion.

If you haven’t been at Meta/Goog, it’s really hard to believe how bad is it there. There’re even memes like “rest and vest”. In a normal starup, people like that would be goners very quickly. In these large bloated money-corrupted orgs with no critical oversight on many layers you can survive literally for years doing literally close to nothing if you built a good enough initial rep.

Not saying all the engineers/folks he fired are like that, of course. But I’m pretty sure a lot are. And having worked in the company for many years is actually a negative signal here from that perspective. Because old-timers may have a lot of internal cred not necessarily based on their most recent accomplishments.

Edit: typos

The old timers in mature code bases who spend 35 hours a week are far better for the organization than the driven hardcore out of college ambitious employees. I am certain that what happens after Elon is done dropping the former is an urge to do rewrites instead of learn the (often necessary) complexities of the existing systems, while in the meantime services get flaky and new working features come to a halt.

They are better if you want maintanance. They are worse if you want radical changes. I’ve seen it a lot of times myself, people like that actually create a lot of friction similarly to this fired Android guy, having a stake in the game of justifying existing status quo.

In related news: https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/16/23462026/elon-musk-twitt...

One of the craziest management approaches I've heard of. Wild stuff. Is he just trying to get people to quit so he's technically not "firing" them?

I've thought about it and he'd have to pay me ~4x what I could make at my current job, and even then I'd do it for a couple years tops then take my money and leave. My ultimate goal is to retire very early but I also don't want to sacrifice my current life/sanity/morals, so it'd take a lot of money for that side of the equation to win out

Right now USA has not seen the peak IT layoffs yet...it just started. Ask this question again in April 2023. I pity a lot of those Twitter staffs that survived the first cut but quit. They will find it difficult to find similar paying job for the next 6mths. When if one do secure a job, they will be on the first to let go chopping list when layoffs quota needed. Or getting substantial pay cut. I have been on HR for couple decades on a lot of firmwares probably across Fortune 5000 all the way to 10. This is by far the most spookies with at least 3-4 layoffs planned almost per quarter for 2023. Some middle management even discussing padding departments with expandable staffs to lessen the damage to core veteran staffs.

Speaking more to the twitter situation.

Hard to say what's really happening inside. But assuming nobody is being needlessly abrasive with him, if he's really firing people for questioning his asks or correcting wrong assumptions he's made then that feels risky. That plus a sudden transition to long hours. I'm willing to go to bat if the chips are down, but the idea of working 60, 70 hour or more weeks to entertain asks that haven't been thought through sounds really stressful. I've been in a situation like that where we were driving to add features that were removed the next week/month and it sucks.

If I were currently at Twitter, I don't know that I would take the severance. If I were job hunting, they probably wouldn't be high on the list.

I voted "no" but honestly it depends entirely on the job market. It's amazing how low your standards go when you're jobless and have a family to feed. Back in 2008 I took a job with a founder I'd describe as a Mini-Elon and it really sucked, but what sucks more is living in your car.

This tells me you live in the US!

Work? Probably not, I think it's for people who are very dialed in on the mission. Buy stock in his conpanies though? That's a very different story. If and when spaceX goes public (probably far in the future) I believe it will be the most valued stock in history.

Not as an engineer, but as some kind of high-ranking advisor, yes. Like the "Chief of Theory" in Don deLilo's Cosmopolis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVRpA-_jzV4

Musk wants his employees to be workaholics, just like him.

I will work for him if he makes me a billionaire, just like him.

So, no.

Depends on how desperate he gets to hire folks indicated by increase in the salaries he offers.

No. I don't mind long working hours. Its about dignity. The way he treated twitter engineers publicly is very disrespectful. I am deeply saddened. Now I wish he does not reach mars first. That would set a terrible culture on mars.

I would work for him, I would take a cut in pay to work for him. He is a visionary, and visionaries are not always easy to get along with, or anticipate but they do get things done.

would you have worked for Da Vinci? Or the original Tesla?

I would have worked for them for free.

Do you think Twitter Blue was visionary?

No and it's not close.

I can sort of understand why people put up with it to work for companies like SpaceX, but I find it difficult to understand why anyone would not take the severance that Elon offered every Twitter employee this morning.

Sure, I doubt he has any need for me. but why not, itll look good on the resume.

There’s a dozen other companies that would look better on a resume.

Yes, I've worked for way worse managers than him. Straight-up lunatics and it was a great experience. You never knew what to expect from day to day. Way more fun than just chugging along like I do now.

Today: hard no

When I was in my thirties: possibly

When I was in my twenties: hard yes

(I've since read some other comments and money is not the issue; the chance to work on something possibly world changing [Musk's Application X] is the issue).

5-10 years ago I would have said yes to either SpaceX or Tesla, if my skills were aligned with what they were working on. I was younger, and the chance to change the world would have justified the lower pay.

But working at Twitter isn’t a chance to change the world. It’s a chance to do the same stuff I’ve done I’ve done a million times before, but with worse pay, worse culture, and an asshole CEO.

I’d invest in any company he runs, good enough middle ground without drama.

Absolutely not. I saw him for who he was years ago because of how he ran Tesla.

If he were to buy my employer, and I couldn't line up a new job before it went through, I'd make him fire me for union agitation.

Elon's companies aren't known for paying well, so why take the stress? For passion, probably, and neither Twitter nor Tesla meet my passions.

Now, SpaceX, sure, if I had maybe had a completely different life

It depends on the stage of life you're in. My kids are out of college and in collage and it's all funded (529). I'd love to pour myself into achieving something incredible.

He appears to have terrible interpersonal skills, but he gets shit done.

If you can put up with it (I can't) you probably come out the other side feeling you accomplished something great.

Slight parallels with Jobs.

I would like to work in order to see closely what kind of ego he has

Absolutely, without hesitation. Very interesting projects and a lot of action. I can handle a lot of things, but I can't handle being bored.

Or alternatively - I may not pursue working for him, but I've certainly made huge returns investing in his companies.

Nobody is talking about his politics. They are talking about his management style.

I mean his politics are junk also. Its a big turn-off

I bet your politics are junk too. Why do I need to care about your 2 cents about this or that "issue" if we are writing code?

I am not interested in your inner world or opinions. We aren't friends. We are coworkers. I have a life outside the job for that.

Well, well, speak of gaslighting. The twitter employees have been hostile to him since before him buying this dumpster fire was ever a rumor. People are almost exclusively talking about his politics.

Unless I report to him directly his management style is hardly my problem. Even if it is directly, well.. honestly don't find that stressful either. If he is being a stupid idiot I'd tell him just that, have in the past. Sometimes, folks like that are even appreciative of the candid feedback.

What is the worst that can happen, I get fired? Please. At worst it isn't a fit, I honestly don't get the big deal and people get so emotionally invested in this stuff.

I get hired to problem solve. If management is not living in reality part of the gig is to push back. Don't value my input we can part amicably, it is only a gig, not life and death.

> If management is not living in reality part of the gig is to push back

That's exactly what is happening

Do you currently work there or are you part of the peanut gallery?

And please, I beg you, don't give me a tirade about politics or offensive tweets. I am not interested.

If Elon has wrong notions about spambots, checkmarks, which datastore to use, project deadline estimations - great, sounds like every company ever. He probably does, so what. And if I put you in charge you probably will drift away from reality in short order.

All you can do is push back and say stuff like: 'actually it will take x7 your estimates because of these concrete reasons' or 'that spam algo won't fix it because you haven't considered x,y,z here is statistical proof'.

Otherwise nucleus will get behind schedule: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddTbNKWw7Zs

If nobody believes you or listens, well you are on the record. Who cares. Maybe you get fired maybe you get promoted.

Twitter has been languishing anyway there is really nothing to lose by giving it a proper go. Sounds like fun to me actually.

All the whiners seem to be able to talk about is everything except, you know, the actual work.

Honestly the whiners can just bail already, quit the company and the website. Go to Mastodon and stop caring. Life is short.

Pretty sure it's not his politics that are the problem, but his chaotic management style.

Well go write Cobol at a bank. Or play office politics and write another pointless chat app that gets canceled.

What is wrong with a bit of chaos from time to time? I thought this was hacker news, I thought you guys like startups..

Hahaha "startup" doesn't mean "CEO who publicly insults his own company and employees and pretends he knows better than them because he owns a different company." This is not "startup chaos", this is "narcissistic, toxic CEO" chaos. Elon's behavior is absolutely unacceptable coming from a leader. Source: I work at a demanding startup with a respectable CEO.

Dude, you wrote "chaotic management style".

Now it is because you don't like the cut of his jib. Just say what bothers you directly.

I get it, you really don't like Elon. Whereas I... truly sincerely don't care. Pay my rates you can call me every name in the book. Sticks and stones.

Twitter employees have called him all manner of things, doesn't seem like your apprehensions flow both ways. This is some kindergarten level behavior from all involved.

Don't see why any of it matters. Children are starving in India, I'm getting paid six figures to move some Jira tickets back and forth..

Those are the same thing. His management style involves publicly berating his employees over twitter, insulting his own company, and firing on a whim. Nah, I'll pass. There are so many better run companies out there, I'm here to work not babysit the CEO.

Whom is babysitting whom? You're unlikely to ever meet the CEO, he is unlikely to know who you are.

> Nah, I'll pass. There are so many better run companies out there

Than Twitter? No kidding! Well, pass. Just say that. I still don't get why you care what he (or anyone) tweets, but hey, horses for courses.

Personally I have accepted chaos into my heart. It seems to follow no matter where I go. So long as the cheques clear mine is not to reason why.

Yes, babysit the CEO. He clearly can't handle critical feedback, which means everyone has to bend over backwards to avoid hurting his feelings. That has impacts all the way down the chain. Who wants to work for such a fragile leader?

I think it would depend on compensation, working hours, and if the project was interesting.

Yes, but at SpaceX, not Twitter.

I would never work for him (or those like him) unless I was very very desperate.

Most probably no. For a really, really exciting product, I'd consider.

I’d work at SpaceX, maybe Tesla, depending on where, but not Twitter.

>=40k usd/year after tax on remote and I'd work

Elon specifically does not allow remote work.

Your comment is equivalent to I’ll work for anyone and irrelevant to the discussion.

>Watching Elon gaslight

You don't know what the word gaslight means

I'd only work for him if he allowed remote work.

Sure, as long as he pays well

Only if I’m making >1m.

I've worked for worse

No.

His companies don't pay well.

Employees are cogs in a wheel to him, resources to exploited as much as possible.

He's a psychopath/sociopath.

He doesn't allow remote work.

I don't like his companies (well, SpaceX maybe).

I don't believe in his visions or his random outbursts.

Elno

It's akin to working for Trump IMO. Narcissists are a hard no from me.

> gaslight

That's a loaded term, used at the outset to poison the well, so to speak, so one has to question whether the question was asked in good faith and therefore would answering be worth the trouble.

No, it's not loaded (charged with an underlying meaning or implication), unless you're bringing along your own associations.

But it _is_ a careless misuse of a word that has a specific definition. Frankly, I can't remember the last time I saw it used properly.

It means "to manipulate someone by psychological means into questioning their own sanity". It's from a 1940s film where a husband convinces his wife she's going insane, by manipulating the lights in their house.

When a person does bad things and then is accurately described as having done those bad things it's not poisoning the well, it's putting up a sign saying "this well was poisoned".

Can you state any good things about working for Elon? Or are the 1000s who do all idiots drinking poisoned water?

You should call a spade a spade.