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They’re making Madoff look good. He semi-voluntarily* turned himself in when the jig was up, and the govt eventually recovered about 2/3rd of the money

FTX seems like it’s still trying to steal funds

*Madoff confessed to his family, said he would turn himself in, and asked for 24 hours to get affairs in order. Family refused, called FBI immediately




Madoff recovery is 88.35%. See: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-....

Many of Madoff's victims exaggerated their loses. If they invested $1MM at a claimed return of 15% for 6 years, they would claim they lost $2MM, not the $1MM principal.

(I just hope our Government doesn't try to bail out crypto speculators!)


Thanks! Wow even better than I recalled

To be fair there’s something to that idea. Market returns about 7% on average. Over six years that would be an opportunity cost of 50%.

But, as you say there’s got to be some loss for choosing to put one’s money with a con artist

I doubt there will be a crypto bailout as it seemingly didn’t get big enough to blow up anything outside itself. It also had an anti public relations campaign for years


>I doubt there will be a crypto bailout as it seemingly didn’t get big enough to blow up anything outside itself

If politicians wanted to make crypto bros whole, I would lose my mind. I doubt I am the only one, and I would hope that would be scene as a political death sentence to endorse such a proposition.


Some California congresspeople wanted to bail out dot-com speculators during the 2000 crash, at least of their tax oblications:

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2001/07/30/daily...

(I was opposed to this. I purposely didn't exercise stock options that I couldn't or wouldn't sell immediately because I knew about the tax liability. I don't believe the defense that someone who wants to speculate in stock options just didn't know about the taxes. People who wish to speculate with complicated forms of investors should be prepared to take all the risk.)


I've been around the block a few times, and I've had people over the years tell me about an "investment" or a fund, or their brother-in-law who could get me 15% or more on my money. And every time I've been smart enough to say "no thanks."

I must admit, I don't have a lot of sympathy for Madoff's victims. Especially the charities! If I donate money to a charity, I'd expect the money to go to help people or to further their cause -- not to be invested in a high-risk ponzi scheme.


There was a constant drumbeat of high interest promises by these crypto companies, even the supposedly “safe” ones. And so many people thought it was a no lose proposition. E.g. 8% APR at FTX.us: https://mobile.twitter.com/ftx_app/status/141749746557453927...


Lol at the first comment from over a year ago: “ Make it so I can withdraw like a normal wallet and I'm in”


Why haven’t they deleted this tweet by now?


What difference would it make?


The irony!

> In 1992, Bernard Madoff explained his purported strategy to The Wall Street Journal. He said his returns were really nothing special, given that the Standard & Poors 500-stock index generated an average annual return of 16.3% between November 1982 and November 1992. "I would be surprised if anybody thought that matching the S&P over 10 years was anything outstanding." The majority of money managers actually trailed the S&P 500 during the 1980s.

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal


The Renaissance Medallion fund made over 30% per year, so people who had heard of that would be primed to believe that 15% was possible.


Yeah, but anyone who thinks about it realizes that a rate that high simply isn't sustainable.


I honestly don't understand why any speculators get bailed out ever. They're in it for above-market profits, how is it that they don't have to accept the risk?


Madoff's victims weren't bailed out with Government money, they recovered assets from Madoff. (It was with Government effort though, including "clawing back" money from other Madoff customers who had actual gains!)


Then it's not a bailout, it's asset recovery. That's fine with me - somebody rips you off, take them to court like everybody else has to.


They also recovered money by clawing back returns that investors made in the years leading up to the scandal finale.


Heck, they are making Mark Karpelès look good.

https://twitter.com/MagicalTux/status/1591295272621314049


I’m getting my mtgox claim paid out, finally. Never would have picked that for my 2022 bingo card.


Perhaps there's some effective altruist argument for why this is best for the world. Trying to make the Ponzi lesson stick or something.


He just wanted to bring back the guillotine. He’s a big picture thinker.




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