Google Maps app is great, lets you gain points by adding information & photos & reviews etc. They even send you a free bespoke pair of socks or a badge if you're active enough. So fun to add photos and then see how many views they get (I posted one of a chippy in Scotland (for Americans that's Fish & Chip 'Thick French Fries' shop) which got over 1.4 million views - mental). The location history feature suggests things to contribute which helps too.
Would be good to have something similar to make contributing fun.
The last time I submitted a few months worth of my travels at once after doing a hundred or so of these challenges/questions and got a bunch of notifications lambasting me for not updating the moment I did instead of later. Honestly didn't realise you had to manually submit, thought it just happened automatically.
Was a really rude intro to the community and reminded me a lot of SO or Wikipedia with its gatekeeping.
I've never submitted a single thing since then. If that's how you treat newcomers then I want nothing to do with you.
Of course uploading a few months of changes all at once is going to cause issues, naturally some will conflict with other changes that have been made in the meantime.
There is a setting that disables autoupload. Some people may want to minimise the number of edits made from their account, and some people may not want to leave a trace of locations they've visited together with exact timestamp they've been there.
As someone who belongs to the OSM community, I am sorry that you had this experience. Gatekeeping is an unfortunate byproduct of a crowdsourcing project, it seems.
I hope you reconsider and try again. Many of us are actually here to help.
I've seen some gatekeeping in the OSM community as well. In this specific case, this is also (in my opinion) due to bad tooling. Basically the easiest way to keep an eye on an area is to use a tool that shows changesets whose bounding box includes a certain area. So you could make a single tiny edit in both NY and LA, the bbox would ping a huge swath of the US. This happens all the time, actually. It's annoying, but the way I see it that means we need a better way to see changesets that actually affect a specific area.
> Honestly didn't realise you had to manually submit, thought it just happened automatically.
in my experience, you don't have to manually submit in streetcomplete, and it does happen automatically.
> a few months worth of my travels
Was this travels in your local neighbourhood, going home daily, or one trip to another country or in a very rural area? I'm asking if you had constant data connectivity, intermittent, once daily, or none during that time?
It sucks to have a bad first experience from a Gatekeeping
community. Of course, as newbs, we try to move slowly with small changes first to test the waters. That worked for me, sorry that it did not work for you. I also take the point that was raised about not editing based off months-old data.
Funny, I've had a similar experience, and stopped contributing because of it. My case was even more egregious as autosubmit _was_ enabled on StreetComplete, but unbeknownst to me at the time such submissions are batched, so if you edit local places that you're visiting (vacation) and places far away that you're intimately familiar with (home), it can still end up in one big changeset that spans an enormous geographical area... After that I had a couple of folks breathing down my neck and nitpicking every change -- and one of them tried to support their snark with http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/crybaby.html, which is possibly the stupidest writeup I've ever seen -- no, thank you, I can take my contributions elsewhere.
OpenStreetMap has strict demands on how contributors should structure their changes, but has no way to enforce them. The best it has is having someone review your changesets _after_ they've been already submitted, when it's too late as the "damage" is done. Start implementing a technical solution to problem, instead of disciplining the ones who are volunteering their time trying to curate your dataset for you.
(Also, if StreetComplete is a repeat offender, start a conversation with its devs instead of reprimanding users.)
The devs are unwilling to automatically split changesets spatially. The main reason is that the app is intended to be used on foot, maybe bike, mapping only a small area and doing all that on the ground where you actually are.
So mapping from images or memory runs afoul of that intention anyway.
Granted, that still doesn't solve the case that you may have no connectivity and are basically forced to upload a big batch later. It annoys me a bit as well.
On the other hand, despite how angry the changeset comments may read, this isn't a big deal. Globe-spanning changesets happen all the time and yes, they do annoy local users trying to keep a watch on what happens, but the history on the OSM site isn't really well-suited for that either. Also, with enough other changes, those large changesets also fall out of the history range fairly quickly, except in places where no one maps anyway.
> On the other hand, despite how angry the changeset comments may read, this isn't a big deal.
Then why be angry about it at all? It either is worth gatekeeping about our not, decide.
> Globe-spanning changesets happen all the time
I noticed! But this only makes it worse. That's precisely my point: the requirements are there but can't be enforced and then the matter is addressed with... hostility between contributors? Who's benefiting from this behavior, exactly?
I don't really know. There are guidelines and promoting those guidelines to new users can be beneficial. I do sometimes comment on changesets by other users where this happened with the use of normal editing tools (iD, JOSM) where some more care can really be taken (JOSM even warns about large changeset boundaries). But I try to phrase it as a friendly reminder, not so much a broken rule.
Some things like reverting vandalism or fixing large geometries like coastlines or motorways often make large edits necessary anyway. And often it just happens by accident. I have added some cleanup changes to the wrong changeset more than once and then got a changeset for a whole continent. The immediately visible history on the OSM site soon ceases to show that changeset and another will take its place, so personally I don't see much of a problem to get worked up about.
So my stance is basically: It happens, we can't really prevent it anyway (although I'd love a spatial auto-split in StreetComplete and JOSM – Every Door has it, I think), and as long as the norm is that people try to make smaller changesets, I guess we can live with that.
This is terrible. I have no experience with it myself, but if OSM wants community contributions, they need to make sure that people feel welcome to contribute. Lambasting people for getting something wrong is not helpful. Thanking them and advising them how to do it better next time would be much better.
> Thanking them and advising them how to do it better next time would be much better.
Thanking them and advising is the recommended way to handle this.
Unfortunately, as happens in all large crowdsourced areas, some don't adhere to the recommended ways and "do their own thing", often to the detriment of the project as a whole.
I am always amazed at the effort in UX that StreetComplete has taken. Which sadly is also a reason why rewriting it in something that runs on iOS is a major undertaking. And replacing all those beautifully-designed quest screens with simple key-value pair tables is obviously not a suitable replacement.
This is exactly what I have found! StreetComplete encourages me not only to take regular walks, but also to explore new areas local to me that I haven't previously visited (since, after a while, you need to move to a new area to find 'quests' that you haven't already completed).
I have discovered lots of places in my local area thanks to StreetComplete!
This thing is so much fun! I love wandering around a new area and filling in the details.
One thing I wish it had was the ability to add an entirely new building. I'm currently living in a town that is experiencing massive growth and I'll often see a structure that's still a vacant lot on osm, and I don't think you can add it with StreetComplete.
The easiest thing to do for such cases is to add a note, perhaps with a picture of the building if you're comfortable.
There must be folk who dedicate their time to searching the OSM database for unresolved notes, because whenever I leave a note on StreetComplete mentioning an inaccuracy (e.g: a path where there isn't actually one, a driveway marked incorrectly as a road, etc.) I get an email alert a few days later notifying me that the note has been resolved - often by someone who lives in an entirely different country (and who can use the information I provide in the note plus the satellite imagery to resolve the note).
I maintain a website called MapRoulette which is not pure gamification but breaks down map contributions into small tasks. It has some elements of gamification (badges, leaderboard).
For more task-based editing with gamification elements check out StreetComplete, an Android app.
The concept is great, but the map on the site is very buggy on the desktop (Edge 105). Trying to zoom in with mouse wheel, it often randomly zooms out and in again. Trying to pan when dragging while zoomed in and near task markers, it will often pan back after releasing the mouse, and in one case, I've seen it pan back and forth between two points on the map in what looks like an infinite loop. It seems that it's trying to do some kind of snapping to the markers, and ends up fighting the user and/or itself.
Also, the markers disappear entirely past a certain zoom level. When that happens, zooming out one notch does not cause them to reappear, either - I had to do like 4 levels before they'd show up. The worst part is that it also happens when you click on a marker and the map auto-zooms on it.
EDIT: just realized that for that last problem, what happens is that a single combined marker (the one that shows a number) is broken up into individual markers. The problem there is that those individual markers often end up outside of the viewport, and so it looks like the combined markers just disappeared.
Thanks for trying it out! Yes, the map UI has a number of known issues, some of which you pointed out. We're actually working on addressing the most annoying ones right now! I hope to have them addressed in the October / November release.
I also used to have a lot of fun with the KeepRight tool. Something oddly satisfying about taking a small geographic area and completely removing all flagged "problems". Feels like taking an ugly .C file and fixing all the warnings and lint errors. Only problem with KeepRight is I found it had a lot of false positives.
This is definitely one of the trickiest ethical questions for me -- and it applies not only to Maps updates, but also writing Amazon reviews, and so forth.
On the one hand it's free work benefiting the corporation... but on the other hand it's genuinely helping sometimes thousands of other people. I benefit massively from reading Amazon reviews, and it feels good to give back. But it is also a contribution that further entrenches Amazon (or Google Maps), it's not like Wikipedia where contributions can be used by anyone.
What do we do when we can help other users, but doing so also supports corporations for free? Although then again, I've never paid a dime for Google Maps and use it daily, it's literally a major part of my life -- so does getting the product for free also play a role?
I appreciate your viewpoint, and in some ways I agree.
However I see it mostly from a competitors point of view.
If you were to start up a new directory/mapping service, you would need to set up a team of people paid to gather this information for you.
For example if you wanted to put in your new directory whether company A has a car park at their premesis or has disabled access etc, you would need to pay somebody to either go there and perform a survey or call them up and ask them. Googles monopoly enables them to just ask the question to everybody that has ever been there and get the data returned back into the system automatically and free.
I see this as anticompetitive and so I choose not to participate.
Yeah, this makes me think further and it feels like one solution could be legislation that declares companies never own user-supplied content -- that when users submit data like Amazon reviews or Craigslist posts they become public domain. Competitors are free to scrape them however they can.
It's harder for map corrections though, as the user-presented data mixes commercial and user-supplied data. Maybe legislation should require regular data dumps of all user-supplied content much like Wikipedia makes available in XML form? Then no scraping is even required.
I also want to hate it, but in reality I recently uploaded my first picture and then get monthly updates on how many hundreds of people have seen it and I have to admit the gamification works :(
On the topic: I think it would be a good idea for OSM if done in a good and non-technical user-friendly way.
This is a pattern that OSM could adopt. OSM data is used by about half of FAANG and countless smaller companies and organizations directly and indirectly (through Mapbox for example), so your contributions are seen by millions if not billions, depending on where you are.
Try thinking of it as work done to help other real people.
I found the "Emergency" door of a local hospital hard to find IRL, so I added a photo of it from the driveway POV. Another sort of real person you can help are the web-clueless owners of local small businesses.
Instead of supplying a mega corp with some free information to increase their monopoly on directions, maybe you could have just mentioned to the hospital staff that they could do with a new sign pointing to the door?
I think the point of having the online map accurate is so people can plan better ahead of time. We had this exact situation recently when my MIL needed to go to get CT scan in a hospital campus but my wife wanted to plan ahead which of the many entrances she should drop her off at. The actual hospital web site is a labrynth of the type that government bureaucracies excel at.
Most of the the you see actual staff in a big organization, like hospital or government office etc do not have authority to add or remove signage. Most of the time its somebody in admin, or even a totally different department in case of government offices (to keep all locations similar) who is actually responsible. That doesn't mean that one should not give feedback, I do, & at least half of the the time it makes a difference.
I tried to look at it that way, but... it only helps other people until Google decides to drop that particular feature, after which all your work is gone forever.
there is some aspect there about how web-savvy business owners can be and how easy it is to bring business to them. It'll be great to see that playing field fleshed out in time.
That isn't the main return for me. It is knowing that you have contributed to the community corpus of knowledge that is almost impossible to come otherwise. For instance I had the to visit a data centre that I had previously been to but was under a new owner. The pin had Equinix but not the site code. Once I confirmed it, I submitted the edit for it to become Equinix SY6. It apparently has since been used thousands of times.
I also enjoy adding a food shot or a representative photo of places I have enjoyed as a small reward and enticement for others to do likewise.
Personally I just use it for me. Even if they made it so that nothing is shared, and it bookmarks my edits I'd be happy. I don't want to keep a separate override list.
I'm working through similar gamification of map update questions right now, specifically with aerial imaging. We're trying to crowdsource aerial imagery using (for now) passengers in window seats, so the most obvious solution was to provide them free in-flight wifi so that we could upload the images as they're captured as well. They don't record the entire flight, just at certain points based on altitude and tasked coordinates along their filed flight path. Most have appreciated the gesture, but a good amount would prefer airline miles, free in-flight goods, etc. We've looked into chain-based royalties where an image accessed by our customers is paid out to the original photographer, but that's a ways out. Gamification is tricky.
No it's not. We're talking about a silly pair of socks or a quirky avatar message, not, y'know, actual amounts of money. You can't pay rent or buy food or taxes with a pair of socks. Someone doing mapping for free, with the hopes of getting a pair of socks is much closer to this hypothetical mapping purist than a 3rd party contractor that doesn't care about cartography and is just doing it for the paycheck.
If I remember correctly, at first Pokemon Go used Google Maps to display the actual map, but it still used OSM data for the spawning algorithm. Later on they made the switch to only use OSM.
> I posted one of a chippy in Scotland (for Americans that's Fish & Chip 'Thick French Fries' shop) which got over 1.4 million views - mental
Do they protect against self promotion somehow? seems like it would be an easy way to market something to a huge audience. I mean something like giving a completely legit review then dropping a link to your website or something.
I concur completely. I was having my young son learn how to use the computer focused on input devices and simple UI interactions by having him annotate buildings and pools in OSM for a few random towns friends live in. I thought he'd very much more enjoy this if it was gamified in some way. He did it, got the hang of the UI, but then it grew tedious so he moved on to something else.
sorry but that is simply not true...
I think there are areas where it can be, probably those more remote, or where there are less contributors
but at least in western europe, the map is built and maintained by individuals like me. Maybe helped with external datas but still carefully handpicked and integrated by individuals
The statement is at least partly true. Nearly all big corporations and many smaller ones have people on the payroll contributing to OSM. And there are entire countries where paid / commercial editing makes up the majority of contributions to OSM. See this post from last year that breaks it down: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Jennings%20Anderson/diary....
When looking at these then/now renderings, one needs to take into account, that only very little of the actual data is rendered on those maps.
The database contains an incredible level of detail which can be used in completely different contexts and I'd say what's rendered is roughly only 1/10th of the data
There is a script (disclaimer, that I wrote) to set up a couple of docker images so you can create / host something like this yourself: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/399939. It requires downloading of a "full history" OSM data file for the region of interest.
I prefer OSM to Google Maps when looking at maps. You get better maps with more detail. But, I have to back to GM to find anything with an address. The business database on OSM is poor, and I don't think the system for estimating the location of an address on a street has been particularly good either.
They were terrible years ago on GM, so this is part of the evolution. But I can see how OSM will end up better than GM, like Wikipedia over Encyclopedia Brittanica, but it needs a bit more to get there.
Btw: the online process to make changes on OSM is wonderful and encouraging.
Google is on a warpath of advertising to the detriment of its base products. Nowhere is this more apparent to me than Google Maps, mostly because there isn't a great alternative if I want to find businesses near me.
Everyone who can help OSM should. There's no reason OSM can't be a wikipedia-quality product, to the point where close source, advertising-beholden alternatives can't meaningfully compete. Add businesses in your town today! Add business hours if you can! Fix any errors you see. And try to switch to OSM for everything you can. Every little bit helps.
There are a lot of problems that still need to be solved with OSM to make it on par with GM's overall utility. (I say that as a very active local OSM contributor and data consumer) Reviews, geocoding, political issues within the OSMF, and incomplete address information to name a few. Some of them can be solved by having more active local mappers, but others I don't have an easy answer for. Hopefully these are growing pains, as I desperately want to see OSM succeed.
I held the same negative opinion, until about 2018. Then I thought "enough is enough" and started contributing in my area. This in the hope and expectation that other area's will have volunteers working who started out with the same emotion in a somewhat catalysing effect (is that a word?). Now I am quite proud of maintaining shops and bars in my city, at least I think I am the person who updates those the most :)
Almost everything is manual unless an import for an area is happening. Imports require a bunch of documentation and notifications before the data gets pulled in. The data is typically for building and addresses from the government.
Adding together OSM’s rules are stacked against imports, the vocal anti import contingent and specialized software knowledge needed means that few imports happen.
OpenStreetMap is very very good. In many ways, I prefer it to Apple and Google.
But the 2022 version suffers from a number of issues that Google and Apple are both suffering from recently: a lack of focus on who this map is for. Is this map ornamental? Or is it for driving? Walking? Finding tourist locations? What is it for?
One of the obvious changes in OSM between 2012 and 2022 is the addition of building footprints at the cost of removing a lot of street names. At this scale, do footprints really help? Am I planning a walk and need to know the street name where I will turn? When you are close to a destination, yes the footprints help one identify the correct building. But not here.
Here's a Google Maps example: if you put Canada's Yukon Territory into frame, does it show you the major roads? No. Does it show you any roads? No. Even if you select "traffic" it doesn't get the hint that you care about driving. It just wants to show you a map of geography.
And now an Apple Maps example: put California into frame. Freeways and two-lane roads are shown as thin lines that are nearly invisible. Good luck planning a route with this map! Want to go from Point A to B? It can do it! But want to consider side trips or general routing yourself? Nope.
There's still no adequate substitute for a AAA map for driving. I suspect hikers, bikers, and walkers are also poorly served by these non-specialized maps too.
> "a lack of focus on who this map is for. Is this map ornamental? Or is it for driving? Walking? Finding tourist locations? What is it for?"
That's the whole point! Think of OpenStreetMap as a global spatial database of raw map data. An infinite variety of specialised maps can be generated from this data. Maps for driving, for hiking, for public transport, for cycling, and much more: it all depends on what renderer is used.
Can you point to any street names which have been removed?
It's important to remember that OpenStreetMap is primarily a database and the rendered tiles you see on this page are secondary. Data consumers can decide individually whether they want to display a map for cyclists, pedestrians etc. For example, on the official homepage you will also find tiles rendered for cyclists. The important thing is that the data is there and can be used freely by anyone.
Not removed. Simply not visible at certain zoom levels. The render does a trade-off between what it can show. When they chose to add building footprints, it removed street names
Does any navigation software use "simplest route"? As in, fewest turns, stay on main & high quality roads as long as possible; don't take me through strange neighborhoods to save 2 minutes. How this hasn't always been a thing is beyond me.
Emphatic agreement. I was doing CAD & GIS in the 80s. We certainly foresaw this stuff. Even so, I'm just gobsmacked by the number and quality of all the map & GIS systems.
Was ESRI the industry titan back then too? These days there are a bunch of open-source/open-data initiatives and they're making it MUCH more pleasant to do GIS, thankfully.
To my knowledge, yes. But noob me was only aware of PC-based software. There were probably more options on beefier hardware (workstations, minis, mainframes).
> making it MUCH more pleasant to do GIS
Totally. Back then, everything was all but bespoke. Almost zero interop. It was a huge hassle. Now GIS can be just a feature set on top of a proper database. Something like PostGIS was inconceivable to me back then.
It is a side-by-side comparison of OSM data from 2012 (left) and the current OSM data. In my local area the difference is massive: the 2012 data has some roads but that's about it, no buildings, house numbers, etc. That's all present on the 2022 version (disclaimer: partly because I spent several months walking around mapping things with the StreetComplete app [1]).
For me it isn't down, just taking a very long time (multiple minutes) to load the 2012 data.
I can’t open it, but here it’s the opposite :( OSM used to be amazing, better than google, now it’s horribly outdated. It shows several stores in my street that have closed over 6 years ago.
I actually found StreetComplete a few days ago and have started fixing issues, at least for my neighborhood.
> now it’s horribly outdated. It shows several stores in my street that have closed over 6 years ago
OSM is mostly volunteers, and if no one has happened by on your street in the last 6 years, then no one has noticed to update the map.
> I actually found StreetComplete a few days ago and have started fixing issues, at least for my neighborhood.
This is the expected outcome, locals fixing local issues. Given a sufficient amount of that, and you have a better map than googles offering. Of course, as you discovered, if no one is around to make the fixes, the data also goes stale.
Well done on fixing those issues. I've been updating stores in my area, too.
And OSM is the only map that shows the new roundabouts near my house. I just put them in yesterday after riding my bicycle around them several times to get a track.
We are OSM! If it has shortcomings, we've no one to blame but ourselves.
The story of mapping is different for every corner of the world. E.g. in the blog post there's a pic where we mapped the city approximately due to absence of satellite imagery. In this post https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Zverik/diary/399925 it shows that some regions like Africa were nearly empty ten years ago, before the Humanitarian OSM Team lauched their operations. And in 2012 the focus was mostly on basic map features like roads and rivers, while now we're adding final building outlines.
There should be a master list of "open" alternatives that were derided as never going to be comparable that then took over.
Linux, OpenStreetMap, Wikipedia, Audio and Video codecs etc.
The world needs more examples of how building a digital commons is a good long term strategy because it's far too easy to take the short term view each time this comes up.
Does anyone have a quick summary they could offer on how forestry tiles are added?
It's clear that they are added in blocks - edges to forest-cover data are at edges of very large (100km?) tiles.
I wonder, though, where that information comes from. Public sources GIS, and analysis of public satellite imagery, are two possibilities that come to mind.
I wonder how to go about to collaborate to the OSM ecosystem with code. Does anyone know what are the cool projects within OSM in C/C++? (i.e. not web stuff)
Take a look at Tippecanoe, which is under active development again[0]. The original developer, Erica Fischer (who is wonderful to work with), has a fork[1] where new work is happening.
(Co-founder of Felt here) Thanks for the kind words! We are lucky to have Erica on our team. If you ever want to talk maps, my email is can@felt dot com!
The biggest help one can probably be to the project is to create or improve user-facing software. OsmAnd is still clunky and ugly to the average person coming from FAANG Maps, for example. The iOS version is even worse. Some alternative apps exist with better UX, but they're often missing features. There are also some web projects out there that aim to be a google maps website replacement, but none of them are quite there.
It could also be a niche thing, like if you make an app that shows the nearest defibrillator or other emergency facilities that people might need in a pinch. Any area gaining good coverage of this type of data would immediately have an app to turn to. With adoption also comes the influx of new contributors.
I use Maps.me as my main map and navigation app as I don't like that Google knows where I go, and I can say that it's a very good alternative to Google Maps. However I have to say that now I'm a little worried because it's Russian-owned. Happy to know that there's an open-source alternative.
The most accessible general-purpose map app for end users (Android and iOS) is written in C/C++. This is pretty high on the cool and useful scale: https://organicmaps.app/
There appears to be a bug in the 2022 map where it doesn't load tiles during a pan gesture so you can get stuck in an all white zone until you lift your finger off the screen:
(Just to clear a possible misconception: OSM is a database, not a rendered map. Everyone is free to render their own maps based on OSM data.)
When we map (e.g. when we click on the "Edit" button), we use satellite images from providers like Bing, Maxar, ESRI, who have authorised their imagery to be used as base layer. Many countries also authorize their national orthophotography to be used as base layer.
What they mean is that OSM is not a commercial product that licenses satellite or aerial imagery, so the website does not include this (it's really just a showcase of various info that's in the database, not meant to be fit for any particular purpose, although it's surprisingly good for general use).
However, some image sources are available under free licenses, or in Bing's case, a special license for drawing roads in OSM. Many of those can be found if you go into the edit mode, because the default web editor (iD) has those in the background layers menu.
So you can't use satellite data (of the same detail as on Google maps) without paying is basically the answer to my question if I understand you correctly?
To spell it out clearer, though you were pointed this multiple times:
OpenStreetMap is a database, not a website.
Its purpose is to reference stuff that you can see in the street, not to provide a sleek map website.
OpenStreetMap provides map data. They are not a provider of satellite data. You would have to go look elsewhere, and pay someone else.
Now, the openstreetmap.org website still does a decent job at showing a map, though its geocoder is lacking. The website also lacks several features, some are provided by overpass (https://overpass-turbo.eu) for instance, https://brouter.de, etc.
OpenStreetMap data is integrated with satellite data and much more on a lot of websites.
For instance, https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/carte has aerial photography imagery for France, plus a few map overlays, including OSM. French national geography institute (IGN) releases free aerial photography, there are other sources for other countries.
If you go to "edit" mode on the openstreetmap.org website, you'll see aerial/satellite imagery too, licensed for free from bing and others. AFAIK, that license is only for editors, thus they can't have it on the main website (and that wouldn't be a showcase of OSM data anyway).
I agree it's a bit of a shame that the openstreetmap.org doesn't do a better job of showcasing the wealth of data, and it could be more user friendly. There are a lot of other websites that provide the same data, represented differently. https://osmand.net/map for instance. https://www.qwant.com/maps has vector maps and is quite good too!
> To spell it out clearer, though you were pointed this multiple times:
I think I was pretty clear about what I was interested in, namely satellite data on the same level of detail as what is available from Google Maps. My question wasn't really about what OpenStreetMap is or isn't is, but it's a nice bonus I guess! That French website is a good example of the type of imagery I was looking for.
We have a subscription for MapTiler to do our in app maps; including very nice satellite imagery. This data set is obviously not the good stuff.
For reference, I've used ortho4xp to get some satellite imagery based x-plane scenery. I have several hundreds of GB of scenery like that for a few relatively small areas, like my home country the Netherlands, the area around Berlin, and a few more places. That scenery comes in at multiple GB (4-6GB) for just a single rectangle on the map (1 degree latitude by 1 longitude degree, depending on the zoom level. You typically use it at zoom level 17 but you can configure it to go for zoom level 19 near airports, which helps when coming in to land. This stuff is huge. At zoom level 19, you can see quite a bit of detail. It looks great from a few hundred feet up in the simulator.
What map tiler offers us looks like it is similar quality to that. I assume they are licensing some satellite data for this. Zoom level 19 resolution for the entire world is likely to be in the peta byte range. 500GB is probably zoom level 15 or 16ish. Still usable but not great if you want to zoom in and see details.
Edit. Another point is that zl 19 and better does not come from satellites but from air planes and isn't available everywhere (only in populated areas typically).
But you are right as this approach does not scale well in regard to using it for all languages out there. So a vector tile stack is a better approach for just switching languages.
I've found that about 80% of the bullshit my search engine crawler finds is on Russian and Chinese IPs (especially the Alibaba Cloud).
Not that there isn't legitimate content, but there seems to be very little effort put toward policing the bad as long as it primarily targets a western demographic.
Oh wow, I was looking for your search engine a few months back, but couldn't recall the name, and my searching turned up nothing, even here on HN somehow.
I just came across the open-sourcing blog post. Thank you for doing this. Search is something I'm quite interested in. Is there a public mailing list somewhere to discuss marginalia-related stuff? I'll probably look into contributing at a later point (I've also always wondered how good sqlite+webtorrent would do fare a search engine, for instance -- not saying I'll make a PR for that, but I'd be curious to investigate stuff like that).
I'm still working on how best to run this as an open source project. No list or anything just yet. I'm half considering moving onto github from git.marginalia.nu; but still ironing out the details. Also a lot of rough edges to smooth when it comes to contributor experience, running the thing still requires a lot of awkward manual steps.
If you want you can pop me an email (see my profile) and I'll let you know when the details are more clear.
The majority of English-language ru/cn domains being crap seems like a safe bet. I'm sure lots of legitimate businesses in those countries have such domains, but those websites aren't relevant to an English speaker not living in those countries.
You don't particularly care to view anything on .ru, but you're complaining that you can't open a website (which you'd like to view) which is on .ru. What a bizarre thing to say.
Google Maps app is great, lets you gain points by adding information & photos & reviews etc. They even send you a free bespoke pair of socks or a badge if you're active enough. So fun to add photos and then see how many views they get (I posted one of a chippy in Scotland (for Americans that's Fish & Chip 'Thick French Fries' shop) which got over 1.4 million views - mental). The location history feature suggests things to contribute which helps too.
Would be good to have something similar to make contributing fun.