wish I remembered what podcast I was listening to... it was someone running a company developing synthetic milk and eggs explaining why meat will never scale up, the problem is the growth medium for muscle is also the perfect environment for bacteria, and we basically need to reinvent immune systems before you're going to get a cubed inch of healthy chicken to grow without contamination

This is probably not the one you're referring to, but Pat Brown, co-founder of Impossible, also has quite a strong opinion on cultured meat. If somebody figures out how to grow animal parts artifically and reliably, there are much more interesting applications than to eat it. Such as medicinal applications.

I think the main point here is not that we will never figure it out, but that it will take a long time. Time, that we don't have with the imminent climate and biodiversity crises.

It makes much more sense to create meat directly from plant proteins than to try to grow it artifically. Brands like Impossible make damn great burger patties, chicken nuggets, and what not. I'm pretty most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference to animal meat in a blind test.

So someone whose subsistence depends on plant-based meat substitutes says their competitor are not good enough? Not much to see here.

I'm not necessarily saying they're wrong, only that they're not a reliable source for that information.

> I'm pretty most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference to animal meat in a blind test.

Perhaps not burger and nuggets, since those are heavily processed and seasoned anyway, but try to give them a plant based steak or ribs and I doubt anyone would fail to tell the difference.

> Perhaps not burger and nuggets, since those are heavily processed and seasoned anyway, but try to give them a plant based steak or ribs and I doubt anyone would fail to tell the difference.

I'm sure people said exactly this about burger patties before amazing plant-based burger patties existed. There's no physical reason this is not possible. And don't forget that making a steak is also much harder with cultured meat, that's why they're also starting with burger patties and chicken nuggets.

From a higher-level view, most meat that's consumed is not in the form of steaks. It's in the form of ground meat. If enough people switch to plant-based meats for let's say 80% of their meat needs, animal-based meat won't be able to compete anymore with the price of plant-based meats. So, for Impossible to reach their goal of getting rid of the animal based food system, they don't even need to be able to make steaks. Sure, there will always be meat, but it will be an expensive luxury and rarity that we will frown upon as society (e.g. like wearing fur coats today or hunting dolphins and whales).

> So someone whose subsistence depends on plant-based meat substitutes says their competitor are not good enough?

Fair point. But also consider why they started a plant-based meat company in the first place and not a cultured meat one? He had the experience, expertise and funds to do either.

> I'm sure people said exactly this about burger patties before amazing plant-based burger patties existed. There's no physical reason this is not possible.

I'm not too sure, but time will tell. Are plant-based steaks going to be at least as healthy as their animal counterparts though? Plant burgers tend to be on par or worse, which is not great since beef burgers are not the healthiest to begin with.

> most meat that's consumed is not in the form of steaks

Do you have data to back this up? I'm not saying you're wrong but I come from a culture where most of our meat is in the form of grilled steaks or barbecued chunks of fresh meat, seasoned with salt only. Burgers are not necessarily uncommon but are generally seen as what they are - a fast food treat to be had infrequently.

> consider why they started a plant-based meat company in the first place and not a cultured meat one?

To consider this, I'd have to actually know their reasons. :) It could just have been that they thought burgers would have more acceptance for the reasons I stated - they're easier to mimick since their animal-based counterpart is already heavily seasoned and processed, and doesn't actually taste that much like the actual meat.

As a last note, you have my upvote for a thoughtful and thought-provoking response. Thank you! :)

He'd also have 'quite a strong' interest in not having it succceed - Impossible, Beyond, et al. don't want to have to fight 'ours isn't pretend meat' advertising campaigns, or be relegated to being Quorn et al. competitors (which of course they are really, but currently seem to be succeeding as being seen as meat competitors).

Thermodynamically it doesn't even seem like cultured meat should be any better than traditional meat. Sure you are making more stuff than just meat, but like nearly 100% of the animal ends up being used in some capacity for different sources that now all need a synthetic alternative developed that happens to be better for the environment than the old way of using a cow. Call me incredulous but I feel like it would be better to just figure out how to lower the environmental costs of having the cow. You have this sytem that already works fine to generate meat and a host of other products from known inputs. Why reinvent the wheel? Just make a better wheel. Capture the methane. Farm feedcrops in sustainable ways. Treat the animal with respect over its life.