It amazes me how quickly people online are willing to start ww3. It seems like it's not the world leaders we have to worry about, it's the fucking commenters.
Yes it should be picked up but the US can't just go in swinging with China. Nobody wins.
When open conflict with China would also "end the world" the exact same could be applied to OP. You want a world in which China is not appeased, and you're okay with ending it all if that's what it takes.
I don’t think it would be ww3 as China would get roflstomped by US and Japan.
They might take Taiwan though and ruin the global economy for a few decades.
But I’m not seeing how this gets to be ww3 and not a regional war of just blowing shit up with missles. I don’t think Europe, Africa or South America would get involved unless China fired icbms or bobbed Hawaii or something.
China’s military just isn’t strong enough yet. Maybe in 20-50 years.
I agree that China can't project military force far outside China. But they don't have to, a large portion of the world's population and manufacturing capacity is in their neighborhood. If they take over Taiwan, occupy Vietnam and get countries like Laos and Thailand which have good relations with China on their side, then other countries might join against China to protect their interests and supply lines.
Meanwhile the US has failed to roflstomp much smaller and weaker countries that didn't prepare for this exact scenario. China can't take the war to the US, but they can defend their costal waters and core territory longer than the US can maintain popular support for a war.
China has done an awesome job in building a military that can win a war for Taiwan. They have a very strong integrated air defense system, enough short range missiles to effectively deny the South China Sea to surface vessels and enough long range missiles to crater all of the nearby airfields the US would use in any such conflict. It's not clear they could successfully invade, but can they sink any ship bringing food into Taiwan? Probably, and realistically that's all they need to do to win.
On the flip side, what can the US do to get China to stop fighting if they don't want to give up? An invasion couldn't possibly take over the whole country and might trigger a nuclear reprisal, a blockade would take longer to work against China than Taiwan, and the economic consequences would hit the US quite hard. How many Americans want to buy war bonds and go on rationing to protect Taiwan? Especially with the current political polarization?
I don't think it's a sure fire win for China, but it's already in the realm of plausibility.
Wasn't that after removing the infamous "Taiwan Is Part Of China" from the Taiwan Fact Sheet, and the proposal for expansion of military aid to Taiwan? That old lady is also the US House Speaker, second in line for POTUS succession among other things.
China does look very weak when they behave exactly like North Korea does. They think it's a show of strength, and in a way it is, but it's also a dangerous weakness stemming from fear and insecurity, the kind that may start WW3 some day, and China and particularly the CCP will be wiped off the face of the earth, along with a lot of us.
> The order of succession specifies that the office passes to the vice president; if the vice presidency is simultaneously vacant, or if the vice president is also incapacitated, the powers and duties of the presidency pass to the speaker of the House of Representatives
As you stated there are many steps before Pelosi is in a position to "push the button." Xi today at this vary moment is practicing/simulating the murder of the people in Taiwan so he can complete his grand vision of 'unifying' 'China'.
One is using words and the other weapons. We should not tolerate such attempts to stifle an open dialog. I know it's popular now to say 'words are violence,' but at the end of the day they are still not military drills and missile launches.
Xi's posture is one of murder. Pelosi's (who I don't agree with on most things) is one of democratic freedom for the people of Taiwan.
People trying to compare the threat level of Pelosi speeches to Xi missile launches are almost unbelievable in their level of sophistry.
That is where you would be wrong. People in the US are free to talk all they want about fantastical topics.
In fact, in Texas people make political comments about independence frequently.
In Puerto Rico, there have even been literal votes, where the people actually voted on what they want to do with this US territory, and independence was one of the options.
Further examples of these topics coming up, are the frequent comments I hear about how california, or pacific states should form up and create their own country.
And to give a more historical example, I believe a couple decades ago, there was a major Alaska independence party. This party actually even won a governorship, at one point!
People who claim that the topic of states leaving the US, is some taboo topic, that will get you sent to jail, or start a war, if people simply talk about it, are just wrong.
You are just wrong. People talk about this stuff, all the time, and there have even been official votes on this stuff. And wars aren't started over it.
> People in the US are free to talk all they want about fantastical topics.
It's one thing to talk between US people on various topics. Another is for head of foreign state to covertly enter your country and espouse a topic that's controversial and could cause problems for you down the line.
> And to give a more historical example
To give a more recent historical example. Election of Donald Trump. And the role Russia played. Steele dossier non-whistanding.
From what I gather, merely buying up trolls and doing some marketing was enough for US to have hissy fit, over it.
It's not just talking though! Instead it is actual votes, in actual territories, about becoming independent from the US. Like the votes that have happened in Puerto Rico.
If there was a vote in Taiwan, and they voted to officially say that they are independent (although they are independent already, they just haven't officially said so), I can assure you that the mainland would not treat such a case as how we literally have allowed Puerto Rico to have such votes.
That's why this is a false equivalence. In Puerto Rico we literally have allowed independence votes. Whereas regarding Taiwan, if they change the name on an embassy, China threats to bomb them, even though Taiwan is already independent, and this has been the case for 70 years.
This sad orientalism: neither China nor Russia are some weird state machines that are "provoked" or "forced" to do anything, or kids that we have to constantly placate to not start crying in the middle of the mall.
Any aggression, like Russian one is only and purely a result of their own choices and they are the one to bear consequences.
How is this even remotely a provocation justifying this kind of response? It‘s a diplomatic gesture confirming the US‘s support for the decades old de-facto status quo. China‘s insistence on their power fantasy is the permanent provocation here.
Apple's market cap is $2.7 trillion. How hard could it be for them to get a few nuclear-powered aircraft carriers and tell China, "We refuse to comply with your labeling requirements. Just try to stop us"?
Apple has about $40 billion cash on hand. A nuclear-powered aircraft carrier is about $10 billion, plus another 6 billion for the aircraft (taking a Nimitz class with 90 Super Hornets). Add in ammunition, crew, training, support craft, operational expenses. Buying more than one would seriously strain Apple's budget.
And all of that to expose it to China's anti-ship missiles and dare them to shoot. Seems like a terrible way to spend that money.
>It amazes me how quickly people online are willing to start ww3.
Ya, and if that happens, expect a draft. The US military is having difficulty finding volunteers. They'll need a whole lot of soldiers, sailors and marines if we went all out with China.
>It seems like it's not the world leaders we have to worry about, it's the fucking commenters.
Pelosi was quite bold in her little stunt recently with Taiwan. She's willing to send our boys and girls to war for a political stunt is pretty disgusting. I'm done with all these war mongers.
I wonder what she was really trying to accomplish.
Also, seems some people stole $6B from Chinese banks. One of the accused was allowed to flee to the US.
> Pelosi was quite bold in her little stunt recently with Taiwan. She's willing to send our boys and girls to war for a political stunt is pretty disgusting
The only reason she went was because the US military deemed it safe to do so. No one wants a war right now.
> I wonder what she was really trying to accomplish.
Why not listen to her words?
"We must stand by Taiwan, which is an island of resilience. Taiwan is a leader in governance … . At the same time, Beijing is squeezing Taiwan economically, pressuring global corporations to cut ties with the island, intimidating countries that cooperate with Taiwan, and clamping down on tourism from the [mainland]. In the face of the Chinese Communist Party’s … accelerating aggression, our congressional delegation’s visit should be seen as an unequivocal statement that America stands with Taiwan, our democratic partner, as it defends itself and its freedom."
>The only reason she went was because the US military deemed it safe to do so.
The same military that said Afghanistan wouldn't fall until months after we left? The same DoD that convinced us WMDs existed in Iraq? How many times will we buy into this garbage?
"Our commitment to democracy is tested in China. That nation now has a sliver, a fragment of liberty. Yet, China's people will eventually want their liberty pure and whole. China has discovered that economic freedom leads to national wealth. China's leaders will also discover that freedom is indivisible -- that social and religious freedom is also essential to national greatness and national dignity. Eventually, men and women who are allowed to control their own wealth will insist on controlling their own lives and their own country."
W. Bush said similar things when trying to manufacture content for invading Iraq. You know how that worked out. Don't buy what they're selling like I did 20 years ago. Warmongers need to go. A draft to fight China will destroy an entire generation. She has no business saber rattling like that.
Yes it should be picked up but the US can't just go in swinging with China. Nobody wins.