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> just use a decent cam in the laptop

I mean, phone cameras will literally always be better than laptop cameras. They're just a lot bigger.

Edit: I should clarify this a little. From my understanding, camera quality is pretty overwhelmingly limited by lens quality. Better lenses require a thicker / deeper camera housing, which is hard to stuff into the top lid of a laptop. Phones are "always" (although that might not be true forever!) going to have more space for bigger and better lenses.




What a curious take. They just need to put bigger cameras in the laptop. There is like 100x more space for such things.


Laptop screens are much thinner than phones are thick so a phone actually has more space for the camera in the dimension that is most restricted.


Simple - camera bump on top edge, corresponding indent on bottom edge. My MacBookPro could accommodate a larger camera than my iphone.


Phones have camera bumps. And screens could be thicker where needed.


> Phones have camera bumps.

And that’s pretty annoying, a computer lid bump would snag into everything.

> And screens could be thicker where needed.

My phone’s thrice the thickness of my laptop’s lid.

This would increase the laptop’s thickness by a lot, and mostly by voids.


The bump would go towards the keyboard, I'd think.


There's very little clearance in that direction, and the clearance which there is is necessary for the screen / lens not to touch the keyboard / case and get scratched.

So if you have a bump on the inner side, you also need to have a notch in the topcase.

And unless you move the webcam something weird (an edge or below the screen), you need to have that notch through or below right below trackpad, which is less than optimally comfortable before you even consider that the accumulation of crap in that notch can then damage the camera lens.


> move the webcam something weird (an edge

Would it be so weird? I mean: top corner/edge is less of a problem than bottom (nostril+big hands)

Assymertic? let's go nuts: two webcams, one on each side... suddenly, no notch, double the amount of light, stereoscopic vision. Combine that with some software processing and probably two very cheap sensors could produce decent results without bumping the price as a thin and tiny high quality sensor would.


I have an Apple studio display. That thing is pretty new, thick and has an A something chip running iOS inside.

The camera quality is shit. Just garbage.

I don’t understand how they manage to do it. I understand your comment about laptop screens and it makes sense however none of the third party external webcams and even a non space constrained Apple webcam performs ok.

It’s weird.


The Apple Studio Display has a notoriously bad camera. https://www.theverge.com/23044788/apple-studio-display-webca...

It's suspected it's because they're using a wide angle and cropping it tight to do the Center Stage feature.

It's pretty astonishing just how much they managed to screw up that monitor's webcam, but it's known to be terrible.


If Apple released a notch in the bottom side of their macbooks for a camera bump to fit in, everyone would be calling them visionary geniuses and they would use it to jack up the price 200 dollars more.


Isn’t there already a notch on most MacBooks where you can stick your finger to pry open the screen?


> Laptop screens are much thinner

Do they have to be?


They naturally are because there's just not much there, it's just an LCD.

Making them thicker means you're making them heavier and less rigid and full of nothing for 99% of their volume, making the entire laptop less wieldy (as it gets much thicker).

It also means the hinge can't go as far back as the lid is now in the way (forget laptops which sit open flush). Or you have to design a completely novel (and much more expensive, and faillible) hinge system which better supports a thicker lid e.g. the Surface Book's fulcrum hinge, except instead of that thicker lid being a computer it's just air, so you get nothing for that expense and inconvenience.


Hm. Interesting: you could put the battery in the screen making it quite a bit thicker, and then have the base thinner, that would change the balance though and it might not be as stable when sitting open on a desk. It'd be great to have a 20 hour life laptop though.


Or we could rearrange cooling so fans stay on the bottom of the machine with heat pipes leading up to behind the screen where the main board is

Or to keep the thermals totally on the bottom just move the GPU and CPU off the main board and put them underneath with the rest of the main board behind the LCD

This allows for a larger battery with more run time, better camera, and it should keep the balance of the machine while keeping hot stuff away from the LCD

There are options


> that would change the balance though and it might not be as stable when sitting open on a desk

Iirc that was one of the SB’s issues which the hinge had to manage.

And things would probably be worse for a lid filled with battery.


The OLPC XO1 laptop has the screen and computer in one half of the clamshell, with its battery and keyboard in the other.

Its balance is quite good.


Yes, they would be. Still, interesting and I'm wondering if there is a way to use this.


Yes. Think about it.


Ehhh it’s not quite that simple. Optics and sensors have requirements that screen builds clash with. You’d need to make them thicker, for starters.


Laptop "lids" are a lot thinner than your average phone, they might be able to use a plateau like at the back of the phones to house it but I'd guess if there would be a simple solution that they could "just" do it would've happened already.


Okay? So change it?

Are the gods of thin devices stopping engineers from doing something different?


I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying that it's not a "just" drop-in replacement that you can do from one day to the next. Don't you think they would've done that instead of engineering some ugly phone holder solution for the new Continuity camera?


Apple is always searching for ways to get consumers to buy more of their hardware, so this does seem like a great way of entrenching users a little bit more.

What I didn't think about in my original comment is that their new solution makes use of two of the phones cameras (face view and the keyboard view)... I'm not sure consumers would be okay with THAT much hardware real estate being taken up by the addition of a wide angle lens (which is a really cool feature, albeit a bit is a gimmick for most). Though I'm sure Apple marketing could still make it generally desirable if they wanted to.


No, I definitely don't expect apple to make rational design choices at this point

Exhibit A, this thread

They've been shifting design choices in a direction for years and this is what came of it. They could have made other choices but did not


Designing a laptop by sacrificing portability for camera quality is absolutely not rational design. No one is walking around taking photos with their macbook.

It's only purpose is for the occasional video chat which, until recently, most people would use very rarely.

Sacrificing portability for camera quality in a laptop would very much fall under irrational.


i’d be first in line for thicker everything, but there is a lot more value in thickening the body of a laptop than the screen.


Gross.. no.


Not depthwise.


Neither are phones with great cameras... Which is why there are camera bumps.


A camera bump could easily be added and with a redesign of the palm rest/touch pad area there could be a recess or slight curve down to fit, you're absolutely right


Nobody is buying a laptop with a bump at the top of the lid


Yet


Why does that mean 'always'? i.e. rephrase GP you quoted: 'just use a lot bigger of a cam in the laptop'.


> I mean, phone cameras will literally always be better than laptop cameras. They're just a lot bigger.

Sony RX0.

The things with webcam is nobody want to spend any substantial amount of money on a third party usb webcam and nobody is willing to pay his laptop 10 or 20% more because it has a quality camera inside.




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