As a civil engineer: I assure you my studies were QUITE rigorous. The job is very demanding, and I assure you the complexity can be very high, the consequences of mistakes are severe and occur over a massive variety of time scales. I had to work for four years apprenticing under licensed engineers after school and pass no fewer than four examinations, and get 4 licensed engineers to personally vouch for my work before getting licensed myself as a civil engineer. I am personally liable, in perpetuity, for loss of life injury or property which occurs as a result of work that I put my stamp on.
As a licensed P.E (who is, dare I say, fairly talented amongst my peers even) with a total of 8 years experience, do you know what I get paid to deal with that complexity and liability? About $80k in medium cost of living area for 45 hours/week. That's not atypical. Does that "control for the intelligence" required of the job?
80k for 8 years of experience with a PE is a bit low. You should be cracking six figures by now if you’re structural and coming close if you’re actual (roadway) civil. Are you in materials testing? If so, obviously you should try to switch over to an inspection gig to get some of that sweet overtime. I was clearing something like 110k salary at similar experience back when I practiced and quite a bit more with my equity/COLA/bonus, but I was in a high risk niche field. Not sure where you’re at but any market of reasonable size should be able to support you getting a raise, especially if you’re actually as good as you think.
I agree with everything you say. Software engineers (most should not even be called engineers, they’re coders or developers and on the same level as a lab technician to me) are prima donnas whose mathematical and scientific backgrounds are (on average) at least one level of education behind any actual licensed engineer/professional making half as much. And their degree of liability is infinitely lower, as you note. I’ll probably get sued or be involved in a lawsuit for my work another half dozen times before 2032 even though I haven’t stamped anything in 3 years.
> most should not even be called engineers, they’re coders or developers and on the same level as a lab technician to me
I'm a programmer and I 100% agree with this statement. I never tell anyone that I'm a software engineer even though that is my job title, I am a programmer. It annoys me to no end that we keep diluting language like this and devaluing the meaning of these terms. An engineer is held to a much higher standard than any web developer ever will be.
In some countries, like mine (Uruguay), it's illegal to call yourself an engineer unless you are one, but the local university does hand software engineer titles.
I call myself a senior software developer (I'm not an engineer, I did went to university but didn't graduate from that career, switched to an Information Systems degree instead).
Wow unfair, is it because you work for the public sector that the salary is mediocre? It is not a bad wage but indeed sounds like the salary should be 50% higher.
No, I work in the private sector in land development. This is actually a good deal for me because I'm full remote whereas in my area I'd be looking at a $15-20k pay cut.
As a civil engineer: I assure you my studies were QUITE rigorous. The job is very demanding, and I assure you the complexity can be very high, the consequences of mistakes are severe and occur over a massive variety of time scales. I had to work for four years apprenticing under licensed engineers after school and pass no fewer than four examinations, and get 4 licensed engineers to personally vouch for my work before getting licensed myself as a civil engineer. I am personally liable, in perpetuity, for loss of life injury or property which occurs as a result of work that I put my stamp on.
As a licensed P.E (who is, dare I say, fairly talented amongst my peers even) with a total of 8 years experience, do you know what I get paid to deal with that complexity and liability? About $80k in medium cost of living area for 45 hours/week. That's not atypical. Does that "control for the intelligence" required of the job?